Narrowing down hill country public

[E72]

Another observation,

After figuring out what these “deer loitering areas” look like in my area, it really eliminated spots I would consider sitting. 1,000 acres used to seem huge. Now I’m struggling to find 10 spots that fit the equation in 1,000 acres.

I’ve also found that these areas with great habitat tend to be close to old homesteads or abandoned farms. I’m talking farms that were abandoned 40+ years ago. The only way you can find them is boots on the ground or historic topo maps from websites like Caltopo. A lot of times only a foundation is left. If I were hunting big big woods, like national forest, I’d be looking for those.

Ive eliminated so many areas I would have sat years ago on public. I refuse to waste time in a spot I don't have confidence in . Id rather take a walk with a stand on my back.

[justdirtyfun]

I'm wanting to add a little. But this isn't meant to muddy the water, just sharing an observation.

The rut sign can end up being in a "correct spot" without good cover. And then you have to recognize it for what it is. Some qualities (leeward for rut, 1/3 down on point) added up on one hill property but was pretty open cover. Bucks were still using it due to being downwind of doe bedding.
Time in the woods and the old hair covered computer has to work all the time to gain the upper hand.

[<DK>]

You should look around and think “there is no where to hang a stand”. You should also not be able to see more than 15 yards in any direction.

This is one factor that is great for locating quality buck bedding and bedding that can be relied on every season.

Couple things id like to add is 1- the conservation dept should be holding controlled burns or log areas out to increase habitat. Finding these and marking them for the future is important. 2- For finding the right property, figuring out access points is important or lack there of.

[jhamilton1123]

I’ve found the the common denominator is habitat. Great habitat on a point is great, but a point/spur or terrain funnel without the habitat is low odds in my little experience.

I guess you could look at it as, if you could only pick one map, a topo or a satellite image, I’m going with the one that shows habitat.

Having the right topography and great habitat is the obvious win. But I find habitat to be the #1 factor where deer are seen in shooting light.

Maybe I don't say it enough, but I try... You need to have good cover along with terrain features. Im not disagreeing with you there. We talk about that all the time. Yes, if you made the whole woods mature except a flat area in the top section away from the leeward edges the bucks would bed on the down wind side of the edges just like in big woods... Thats the whole reason we tell people you need to learn how they bed in every terrain in order to understand one terrain.

Over looked spots without cover mean nothing... Leeward ridges that are wide open will not have big buck bedding without bedding cover... Cattaols with no dry humps won't have bedding... To me, thats a given.

I remember struggling when we did the LBL scouting workshop, because there was no logging and everything was mature. The biggest struggle was finding thick leeward points... But once found, there were the bucks.

Dan,

LBL as in Land Between the Lakes in Tennessee/Kentucky? Man i'd love to hear some info over what you learned about the deer there. I actually just sent you a message talking about LBL's type terrain like a week or so ago.

[dan]

I’ve found the the common denominator is habitat. Great habitat on a point is great, but a point/spur or terrain funnel without the habitat is low odds in my little experience.

I guess you could look at it as, if you could only pick one map, a topo or a satellite image, I’m going with the one that shows habitat.

Having the right topography and great habitat is the obvious win. But I find habitat to be the #1 factor where deer are seen in shooting light.

Maybe I don't say it enough, but I try... You need to have good cover along with terrain features. Im not disagreeing with you there. We talk about that all the time. Yes, if you made the whole woods mature except a flat area in the top section away from the leeward edges the bucks would bed on the down wind side of the edges just like in big woods... Thats the whole reason we tell people you need to learn how they bed in every terrain in order to understand one terrain.

Over looked spots without cover mean nothing... Leeward ridges that are wide open will not have big buck bedding without bedding cover... Cattaols with no dry humps won't have bedding... To me, thats a given.

I remember struggling when we did the LBL scouting workshop, because there was no logging and everything was mature. The biggest struggle was finding thick leeward points... But once found, there were the bucks.

Dan,

LBL as in Land Between the Lakes in Tennessee/Kentucky? Man i'd love to hear some info over what you learned about the deer there. I actually just sent you a message talking about LBL's type terrain like a week or so ago.

Look at this post: viewtopic.php?f=5&t=28587&hilit=workshop

[brancher147]

if you made the whole woods mature except a flat area in the top section away from the leeward edges the bucks would bed on the down wind side of the edges just like in big woods...

Could you elaborate on this a bit?

[Boogieman1]

Not sure I'm following this correctly. Are we talking about thick understory thickets vs. terrain a buck has no reason to use? If so, I certainly agree and wouldn't wanna spend time sitting in a area that's void of deer traffic. Also are we talking about just being happy seeing a buck or putting him in your wheelhouse for a high percentage bow shot.

For myself I choose proven terrain features ethier between bedding and food or doe bedding areas.

[dan]

if you made the whole woods mature except a flat area in the top section away from the leeward edges the bucks would bed on the down wind side of the edges just like in big woods...

Could you elaborate on this a bit?

In every terrain there are areas that match other terrains. If you have mature woods without adequate cover, that have leeward ridges, benches, etc. But you also have a large flat area that was recently logged, they will bed the logged area over the leeward ridges and benchs because of the available cover. In thick areas they tend to bed the down wind edge. Smelling the thick behind, and watching the open down wind.

[brancher147]

if you made the whole woods mature except a flat area in the top section away from the leeward edges the bucks would bed on the down wind side of the edges just like in big woods...

Could you elaborate on this a bit?

In every terrain there are areas that match other terrains. If you have mature woods without adequate cover, that have leeward ridges, benches, etc. But you also have a large flat area that was recently logged, they will bed the logged area over the leeward ridges and benchs because of the available cover. In thick areas they tend to bed the down wind edge. Smelling the thick behind, and watching the open down wind.

10-4. Exactly what I thought, just wanted to confirm. Thanks. That explains why I see good buck bedding on the windward side in mature big woods mountains, when the windward side is thick mountain laurel and the leeward is completely open hardwoods no understory. Bedding is usually thick to back and wind to back upper 1/3 military crest looking up into more open timber. Makes perfect sense. The thick windward side is typically steeper with less pressure also.

[pewpewpew]

Not sure I'm following this correctly. Are we talking about thick understory thickets vs. terrain a buck has no reason to use? If so, I certainly agree and wouldn't wanna spend time sitting in a area that's void of deer traffic. Also are we talking about just being happy seeing a buck or putting him in your wheelhouse for a high percentage bow shot.

For myself I choose proven terrain features ethier between bedding and food or doe bedding areas.

My thoughts in this post are meant to help fellow beginners.

The easiest way I can put it is it’s really easy for me to get away from hunter pressure. Steep nasty terrain + decent fitness = no problem separating yourself. BUT that needs to be coupled with solid habitat.

I’m dull and this is something that took me a while to figure out.

[Boogieman1]

Not sure I'm following this correctly. Are we talking about thick understory thickets vs. terrain a buck has no reason to use? If so, I certainly agree and wouldn't wanna spend time sitting in a area that's void of deer traffic. Also are we talking about just being happy seeing a buck or putting him in your wheelhouse for a high percentage bow shot.

For myself I choose proven terrain features ethier between bedding and food or doe bedding areas.

My thoughts in this post are meant to help fellow beginners.

The easiest way I can put it is it’s really easy for me to get away from hunter pressure. Steep nasty terrain + decent fitness = no problem separating yourself. BUT that needs to be coupled with solid habitat.

I’m dull and this is something that took me a while to figure out.

10/4. Hope I didn't come across as rude. I just saw where u mentioned terrain traps as super low odds and I think some are and some are extreme high odds. The fun part is figuring out which is which. And your mention of good low cover is a big ingredient in it. Good info in your post for every level of Hunter. Go get em!

[wadegarrett]

If you have access to non-foliage satellite imagery, you can often pick up the areas of high stem counts throughout open hard woods. Great way to narrow things down without walking. Just look closely and you can pick up even the subtle areas.

[NYBackcountry]

If you have access to non-foliage satellite imagery, you can often pick up the areas of high stem counts throughout open hard woods. Great way to narrow things down without walking. Just look closely and you can pick up even the subtle areas.

To be clear Wade, you are saying if you look at a satellite image in say December, the areas that are bare (typically hardwoods) will show pockets still holding foliage? Those areas still holding foliage are usually thicker understory?

I've used this strategy a little bit this year while reviewing some of my spots via satellite but have yet to confirm in the field, I just want to make sure I am reading this right.

[dan]

if you made the whole woods mature except a flat area in the top section away from the leeward edges the bucks would bed on the down wind side of the edges just like in big woods...

Could you elaborate on this a bit?

In every terrain there are areas that match other terrains. If you have mature woods without adequate cover, that have leeward ridges, benches, etc. But you also have a large flat area that was recently logged, they will bed the logged area over the leeward ridges and benchs because of the available cover. In thick areas they tend to bed the down wind edge. Smelling the thick behind, and watching the open down wind.

10-4. Exactly what I thought, just wanted to confirm. Thanks. That explains why I see good buck bedding on the windward side in mature big woods mountains, when the windward side is thick mountain laurel and the leeward is completely open hardwoods no understory. Bedding is usually thick to back and wind to back upper 1/3 military crest looking up into more open timber. Makes perfect sense. The thick windward side is typically steeper with less pressure also.

Yep

[rfickes87]

Deer live their lives at 5ft and under. If there’s nothing down there it will be a deer desert in my experience. The best areas I’ve found on hill sides are autumn olive thickets. Shot one off my bucks last year coming off a thick autumn olive hillside. I can spot them on aerials overlaid with a topo and it’s money

You really got me curious! Would you be able to post an aerial showing this?