I've never seen a rub like this before

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Ognennyy
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I've never seen a rub like this before

Unread postby Ognennyy » Tue Mar 27, 2018 4:39 pm

I went out today looking for sheds, but quickly realized I'd likely find none. There was no recent deer sign in the fields where I was looking. I gave up and went into scout mode. After 20-30 minutes I found these rubs

Image
Image

The first was at about chest height. The second was hard to judge due to the small stream visible at the bottom, and that I'm not sure exactly where the deer would have been standing when making the rub. The top of the rub is at the height of my neck if I stand where I imagine the deer had to be standing, but at chest level if I stand directly up against the tree. The rubbed section spans 3 feet up and down, and around the girth of the tree. There are deep gouges where the tines dug all the way into the woody layer itself. The tree is the size of my thigh. This was some seriously aggressive rubbing.

I've never seen anything like this before. I live and hunt in Eastern New York and the deer here don't get that large.

I found the rubs on the edges of a series of three small fields adjacent to a well-traveled road. Both are located on the Western edges of the fields on 10-15 year old Black Birch / Water Birch (a common rub species where I hunt). The first I found on the Western edge of the middle field, and the second on the Western edge of the third (Eastern-most of the three fields) field.

I thought about why and when a buck made these rubs. This isn't a small deer so I'm assuming he's mature. There is probably less than a 1% chance this is sign of daytime movement. The rubs are located within 120 yards of a well-used road. So the buck comes here at night.

A buck scent checking the fields to his West during nights with a western wind? The timber stands separating these fields are chalk full of oaks, thorns, and generally nasty stuff. I jumped deer out of there twice last fall. And I noticed a lot of droppings in the timber stands while scouting today. Point; there are does there.

West wind is common here in the fall. East wind almost never happens. Since the timberline edges of the fields the rubs were made on run North-South, a North or South wind don't seem to give him much of an advantage here. With a West wind He can smell hot does in the fields to his West, and see everything out in the field to his East. Maybe he checks the second field (where the first rub is) first. If he doesn't smell anything but sees deer to his East, he can go check them out. If he doesn't smell or see anything on his first pass, he shifts over one field edge to check the furthest East field.

What do you guys think?


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Re: I've never seen a rub like this before

Unread postby mike perry » Tue Mar 27, 2018 5:15 pm

I’m looking at these on a cell phone and that bottom looks like it’s chewed not rubbed but it’s hard to tell on a phone of course wondering if it’s a porcupine?
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Re: I've never seen a rub like this before

Unread postby tbunao » Tue Mar 27, 2018 5:18 pm

High frozen water would put rodents at that level. Imo it looks like nawing, porcupine or if the water levels were up maybe muskrats? I’m not sure if muskrats chew like that but it’s a guess
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Re: I've never seen a rub like this before

Unread postby matt1336 » Tue Mar 27, 2018 5:30 pm

Yeah those might be from some kind of rodents. If they were rubs those trees would look more shredded. That fist one looks like it had more of an oval shape. I can’t see how a buck’s antlers could do that. The one on the second pic- the branches above the rub would be all marked up if a buck was rubbing on that tree.
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Re: I've never seen a rub like this before

Unread postby jman22 » Tue Mar 27, 2018 7:33 pm

Definitely looks like chew marks. Probably from a porky or a rabbit. As others have mentioned, a hard snow pack or elevated frozen water level would explain why they are not at ground surface.
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Re: I've never seen a rub like this before

Unread postby dan » Tue Mar 27, 2018 9:52 pm

1st one looks like it might be a rub. 2nd looks like rabbit chewing and eating bark.
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Re: I've never seen a rub like this before

Unread postby Horizontal Hunter » Wed Mar 28, 2018 1:06 am

Porcupine feeding on the cambium layer.

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Re: I've never seen a rub like this before

Unread postby Loppy » Wed Mar 28, 2018 1:24 am

I think something chewd it as well. I think there would be some shredded bark and some "shavings" still visible on the ground. Where does that stream lead? Any chance beavers are in the area. I found a tree like that last week that was chewed by beaver. Don't know how to post pictures tho. Just a thought.
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Re: I've never seen a rub like this before

Unread postby headgear » Wed Mar 28, 2018 1:41 am

tbunao wrote:High frozen water would put rodents at that level. Imo it looks like nawing, porcupine or if the water levels were up maybe muskrats? I’m not sure if muskrats chew like that but it’s a guess


Yep, I see this all the time, deep snow and rabbits (or other critters) will chew up the bark and make it look like rubs. Porcupine's are also another good guess.
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Re: I've never seen a rub like this before

Unread postby strutnrut716 » Wed Mar 28, 2018 2:59 am

Image

Here is one I found yesterday. From a distance I thought "wow", what a rub ! The middle of it though is about at my chin so I was a little suspect. As I got closer I could see.. I think its Emerald Ash Borer. If you look close you can see where those little green beetles chewed and chewed that poor tree !

Ironically, there is a buck bed right under this tree. Maybe he started it ....
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Re: I've never seen a rub like this before

Unread postby stash59 » Wed Mar 28, 2018 3:32 am

The original pics are both definataly from chewing. Got zoomed way in on my PC. The darker parts are kinda squiggly and are part of the outer bark that got left. Porcupines or maybe rabbits. Saw this alot out in Montana. By porkies chewing on pines and elk chewing on the bark of aspens.
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Re: I've never seen a rub like this before

Unread postby Dewey » Wed Mar 28, 2018 5:37 am

Looks like porcupine to me. Can you see any teeth scrape marks? I can’t see clearly when zooming in.
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Re: I've never seen a rub like this before

Unread postby peteinvermont » Wed Mar 28, 2018 6:52 am

Looks like rabbits or porkys, but since the snow probably wasn't that deep, I'd rule out the rabbits.
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Re: I've never seen a rub like this before

Unread postby ghoasthunter » Wed Mar 28, 2018 9:40 am

dan wrote:1st one looks like it might be a rub. 2nd looks like rabbit chewing and eating bark.

ill take dans vote that's from a rabbit I've seen it myself in swamps. he did it when snow was higher or it was flooded and frozen over. rabbits eat a lot of bark in winter. it could be a porky but that's not typically the kind of spot you find them I see them more on high ground eating beech trees. and they normally chew higher up in the trees around the 10 foot mark.
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Re: I've never seen a rub like this before

Unread postby ghoasthunter » Wed Mar 28, 2018 9:46 am

strutnrut716 wrote:Image

Here is one I found yesterday. From a distance I thought "wow", what a rub ! The middle of it though is about at my chin so I was a little suspect. As I got closer I could see.. I think its Emerald Ash Borer. If you look close you can see where those little green beetles chewed and chewed that poor tree !

Ironically, there is a buck bed right under this tree. Maybe he started it ....

bugs favor damaged trees so it could have been a rub that was taken over. its a bent tree chewed at the perfect height next to a bed on a good sign post style tree. is it a tree they prefer to rub in your area?
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