Predator Prey Bed Theory

[DOA]

We are apex predators, so it is hard for us to wrap our minds around secure bedding. How quickly does your perspective change when you become prey? I’ve got an interesting story. But first, a hypothetical question: Let’s suppose we fence off a random 100 acre section of woods. A lone soldier is put into the enclosure with the sole task of surviving, knowing 10 people will come in to hunt for him with knives. Repeat this scenario 100 times with 100 different lone soldiers and 100 different groups of 10 people entering to hunt them, this way no one learns any habits. I would be willing to bet those 100 lone soldiers will wind up hiding in the exact same spots and sneaking out the exact same ways every time. It’s hard for us to put ourselves in that prey mindset as an apex predator, but I had an opportunity to think like one, and it was eye-opening.

I had hiked into a large remote area for a seven day primitive camping hunt. I usually made this trip with some friends, but they weren’t coming this trip. This area is so remote, that you might only see one hiker during the entire seven day trip. No modern noises, voices, vehicle sounds, or nothing back here and plenty of coyotes and the occasional cougar wondering through.

When I got to the remote area that we usually set up camp at near the bottom of a forested hill deep in the timber, I looked around the surrounding ridges, and got the most uneasy feeling about setting up camp there by myself. Keep in mind, this was an area I had camped with a group for years, and I never felt this kind a vulnerability before. It just never crossed my mind when I was with a group. But now, alone, it was a totally different perspective. That area was completely unacceptable to spend the next few days sleeping alone. My voice of reason knew better than to think something would actually “get” me. But my primortal instincts just wouldn’t let me sleep there. It’s a hard thing to explain unless you’re in this scenario.

So, I started moving to select a new bedding site. I was immediately drawn to the higher elevation that surrounded our original camp area. Not once did I even think about going lower. There was something about the vulnerability of being lower than the terrain there, like the hills were watching me, so I went up higher.

I got to the tip top of the ridge, and thought, this feels much better. So I started looking for a flat area to pitch a single one man coffin style tent. I circled around and around and around and around this Ridgetop, but there was still the feeling of vulnerability being right on the tip top. Something could come up out of the bottom on either side and surprise me. So I moved off to the edge of the top on the hillside.

Once I found a flat enough area to set my tent up, I laid everything out. By this time, probably two hours had passed of me just hunting for a bed and I only had about 1 1/2 hours left of daylight, so I started getting antsy and nervous from not finding a bed. Right here on this hillside was better than the top and bottom, but not good enough.

I found myself trying to shift my tent around to set up against any little obstruction, first a lil Bush, then a tree, to where my head would be close to the barrier and my feet would point towards the open area pointing downhill when I slept. But there was no barrier here good enough that could take my mind off of something sneaking in off the Ridgetop behind me. Sure, there was plenty of lil thick patches here and there along the elevation line, but they weren’t good enough.

So I walked this elevation line down the ridge hunting for some sort of barrier that met my needs. I kept walking, and walking, and walking, down the ridge just off the side of the top at the same elevation looking for this feature, and I just couldn’t find what I needed to feel secure to sleep.

Finally, I came upon an area of a blowdown that was super thick on The edge of the ridge. It just felt “right” here. I immediately found a tiny little opening smack dab in the middle of this blow down, thick all around me on all sides, and threw out my tent.

When I was trying to decide which way to face it, I could not decide on the best orientation and felt vulnerable with the wall of thick surrounding me. So I pulled everything out of the blowdown thicket and moved back to the edge of blowdown in more open woods overlooking the hill where it went down into the draw.

Finally I found the perfect spot to set up camp. It was against the edge of the blowdown “wall”, where nothing could sneak up on me from behind, and I had a visual height advantage overlooking the open woods on the hillside going down the draw.

My voice of reason was telling me the entire time that this whole ordeal was freaking ridiculous, probably like you are thinking reading this. “Nothing is going to get you you idiot,” I thought. But my subconscious instinct just would not let me bed anywhere. It had to be that spot.

The experience was eye-opening, because until I was put in a vulnerable situation alone, I never had to think like that. Always camping with the group, and now having to set up alone, it became clear that areas acceptable for does to bed is greatly different than areas bucks must bed. I’ve tried my best to describe it here in this thread, but until you actually have to do it, I don’t think you can understand the subconscious fear and uneasiness of not being in the right spot.

Those bucks won’t settle for anything less than the best and will keep moving until they find it.

[wolverinebuckman]

What you said makes quite a bit of sense. Were you at peace there the entire week, or did you relocate?

I have never camped alone in the wilderness, but between the concerns of waking to being chewed on, or the sound of banjo music in the distance, it is possible I would become a nocturnal creature that week...

[DOA]

I definitely felt like it could’ve been a better set up, but it was good enough. No I did not relocate. What was crazy was all of the areas that I thought were good enough, until I set up the tent, then felt the urge to move.

The rational side of me has tried to understand the exact reason, but The feeling is hard to describe other than being a primitive urge saying “this is not good enough. Keep looking”

I think all animals have the instinct to find secure bedding. Now put that instinct into an intelligent animal like a solitaire buck, who has advanced memory and possibly mild reasoning skills, along with a hyper sense of smell, and you see why they are so hard to kill.

[JoeRE]

The hardest thing for us to understand about a deer I think is how it trusts its sense of smell. I try to think of it as trusting its nose as much as we trust our eyes. Say you are driving down the road and an oncoming vehicle crosses the centerline. You don't wonder if what you are seeing is true - you know its true and you have to immediately take defensive measures to avoid an accident. That is how a mature buck is when he catches a wiff of human scent.

There is also the difference between a young deer that smells human scent and how a mature deer reacts. The young deer is like a kid that walks out into the street in front of a car because they don't know any better even when they see that car coming at them.

The big difference with the eyesight/smell analogy is its like being able to see only in one direction - upwind...in some spots in hill country wind & thermals dump into a spot from multiple directions and its uncanny how the biggest bucks pick those spot to bed often. They can "see" multiple directions instead of one so looking at it that way makes complete sense!

[Divergent]

I really enjoyed reading this post. It's a pretty simple idea, but it appears way more complex when you put it into perspective.

[Divergent]

The hardest thing for us to understand about a deer I think is how it trusts its sense of smell. I try to think of it as trusting its nose as much as we trust our eyes. Say you are driving down the road and an oncoming vehicle crosses the centerline. You don't wonder if what you are seeing is true - you know its true and you have to immediately take defensive measures to avoid an accident. That is how a mature buck is when he catches a wiff of human scent.

There is also the difference between a young deer that smells human scent and how a mature deer reacts. The young deer is like a kid that walks out into the street in front of a car because they don't know any better even when they see that car coming at them.

The big difference with the eyesight/smell analogy is its like being able to see only in one direction - upwind...in some spots in hill country wind & thermals dump into a spot from multiple directions and its uncanny how the biggest bucks pick those spot to bed often. They can "see" multiple directions instead of one so looking at it that way makes complete sense!

Joe, do you have a consistent terrain feature where you find this? Or can you show me a topo example? A friend and I ran across a bed the other day and I blew it off initially. I felt like it was low and further inside the draw than I would've expected. We found bedding and it left me scratching my head. Do you think the strength of the wind might play into this particular situation?

We also had two days of snow this year in Alabama and I used it to learn as much as I could by following tracks. We had strong winds overnight and I found the beds low inside draws. I'm assuming to get out of the wind.

[JoeRE]

Joe, do you have a consistent terrain feature where you find this? Or can you show me a topo example? A friend and I ran across a bed the other day and I blew it off initially. I felt like it was low and further inside the draw than I would've expected. We found bedding and it left me scratching my head. Do you think the strength of the wind might play into this particular situation?

We also had two days of snow this year in Alabama and I used it to learn as much as I could by following tracks. We had strong winds overnight and I found the beds low inside draws. I'm assuming to get out of the wind.

The spots I have found like this I don't really want to post maps of They are hard to pinpoint, probably have seen only half a dozen what seemed to be heavily used bedding locations like that in the last few years of looking. Each one was in a "bowl" shaped area where air currents seem to swirl into a central location. Most were used on multiple winds. These bowl shaped areas were not deep - sometimes just a few feet lower than surrounding areas. Just enough to make air currents dump into a spot.

I think of this differently than some low bedding that I find in big hills - 200-400 foot bluffs. In the big hills I often can find a wind and thermal combination to hunt some of those low beds, usually when its blowing up or down a valley that sort of thing. But in those bowl shaped areas the wind seems to swirl in like it was going down a drain - and the drain is where the beds are.

By the way, you are right, deer will often bed lower due to strong winds and cold weather, that is another separate factor. So don't read too much into those beds you found in that weather - unless there are maybe rubs around them or just good sign of use from earlier in the year, then you might be onto something good. Or if you just get another snow storm you can bet the deer will be right back there even if its 5 years from now!

[Jonny]

The hardest thing for us to understand about a deer I think is how it trusts its sense of smell. I try to think of it as trusting its nose as much as we trust our eyes. Say you are driving down the road and an oncoming vehicle crosses the centerline. You don't wonder if what you are seeing is true - you know its true and you have to immediately take defensive measures to avoid an accident. That is how a mature buck is when he catches a wiff of human scent.

There is also the difference between a young deer that smells human scent and how a mature deer reacts. The young deer is like a kid that walks out into the street in front of a car because they don't know any better even when they see that car coming at them.

The big difference with the eyesight/smell analogy is its like being able to see only in one direction - upwind...in some spots in hill country wind & thermals dump into a spot from multiple directions and its uncanny how the biggest bucks pick those spot to bed often. They can "see" multiple directions instead of one so looking at it that way makes complete sense!

Joe, do you have a consistent terrain feature where you find this? Or can you show me a topo example? A friend and I ran across a bed the other day and I blew it off initially. I felt like it was low and further inside the draw than I would've expected. We found bedding and it left me scratching my head. Do you think the strength of the wind might play into this particular situation?

We also had two days of snow this year in Alabama and I used it to learn as much as I could by following tracks. We had strong winds overnight and I found the beds low inside draws. I'm assuming to get out of the wind.

He had a drawing of one in the hill country dvd if I’m not mistaken

[Divergent]

Joe, do you have a consistent terrain feature where you find this? Or can you show me a topo example? A friend and I ran across a bed the other day and I blew it off initially. I felt like it was low and further inside the draw than I would've expected. We found bedding and it left me scratching my head. Do you think the strength of the wind might play into this particular situation?

We also had two days of snow this year in Alabama and I used it to learn as much as I could by following tracks. We had strong winds overnight and I found the beds low inside draws. I'm assuming to get out of the wind.

The spots I have found like this I don't really want to post maps of They are hard to pinpoint, probably have seen only half a dozen what seemed to be heavily used bedding locations like that in the last few years of looking. Each one was in a "bowl" shaped area where air currents seem to swirl into a central location. Most were used on multiple winds. These bowl shaped areas were not deep - sometimes just a few feet lower than surrounding areas. Just enough to make air currents dump into a spot.

I think of this differently than some low bedding that I find in big hills - 200-400 foot bluffs. In the big hills I often can find a wind and thermal combination to hunt some of those low beds, usually when its blowing up or down a valley that sort of thing. But in those bowl shaped areas the wind seems to swirl in like it was going down a drain - and the drain is where the beds are.

By the way, you are right, deer will often bed lower due to strong winds and cold weather, that is another separate factor. So don't read too much into those beds you found in that weather - unless there are maybe rubs around them or just good sign of use from earlier in the year, then you might be onto something good. Or if you just get another snow storm you can bet the deer will be right back there even if its 5 years from now!

I thought you might've been talking about a bowl...especially when you mentioned how the thermals and wind met in one central location. That's the reason I asked for an example lol. That's where I found them bedded during that snow when the winds were strong. It was a bowl, but the sides were at least 20 ft high and the back wall was approximately 40-50ft high. Do you specifically look for S/SE facing bowls? Seems like most of our stronger winds are out of the N/NW. Or do you find them using these bowls under other specific conditions?

[JoeRE]

I thought you might've been talking about a bowl...especially when you mentioned how the thermals and wind met in one central location. That's the reason I asked for an example lol. That's where I found them bedded during that snow when the winds were strong. It was a bowl, but the sides were at least 20 ft high and the back wall was approximately 40-50ft high. Do you specifically look for S/SE facing bowls? Seems like most of our stronger winds are out of the N/NW. Or do you find them using these bowls under other specific conditions?

Yea to me 50 feet below the surrounding ridge line is still not very deep. Yea this would be considered a form of thermal hub bedding like was talked about in the hill country DVD. Keep in mind thermal hubs are used a lot more than just bedding. I see them get used a ton in the early stages of the rut just by bucks passing through to scent check the area. Bedding in these low bowls outside the rut is all about security not scent checking does.

If its cold, yea they favor S/SE facing bowls but I think that has more to do with facing the SUN for warmth then it does wind direction. The reason is down in these areas, if they are good spots, the wind swirls around so it doesn't matter if the wind is out of the NW on the ridge above....not sure if I explained that well.

One think I can't figure out is if bucks still bed wind to back down in those areas, they would be getting up and rotating every 2 minutes. So they must be OK with wind swirling around and coming in from every which way down there...they know nothing probably has the time to sneak in in-between swirls of wind? Not sure...