WI boys united?

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Re: WI boys united?

Unread postby dan » Tue Dec 12, 2017 7:08 am

Kraftd wrote:
dan wrote:
Kraftd wrote:We also can't assume that our opinions as hunters are the only ones that matter to deer herd management.

Farmers generally want deer numbers down in many areas, insurance companies generally want deer numbers down, in some areas high deer numbers impact other habitat restoration goals due to browsing so biologists want deer numbers down, lower deer numbers can mitigate starvation ad bad winter issues, we still don't understand nearly enough about CWD to know some things for sure so that needs some thought. I'm not saying at all that I'm ok with low deer numbers and the unlimited seasons, just pointing these things out.

Point is, make your voices heard, as suggested, but look at the bigger picture too. Just about everything is political and unfortunately most of the groups I listed above have more political clout than hunters. That's one reason, to me anyways, why it is important for us to stay unified. Us being ethical fair chase hunters and also public land users. Our politics, weapons of choice, methods, etc. may differ, but we're a tiny group nationally, and if we fracture, or let our sport go the way of the european pay to play model, we're doomed.

I agree about the in-fighting, its funny to see gun hunters turn on bow hunters and think its ok to take away a part of our heritage, but they sure wouldn't be willing to loose 1/2 there gun season to a bow hunt for does only.

No matter where you stand on deer numbers, you have got to see that a doe season that kills 50% bucks and eliminates opportunity for bow hunters is just plain wrong. If they gave more doe tags out hunters could regulate the herd themselves. And if they actually managed the deer herd instead of the deer numbers we could grow some of the biggest bucks in the country and become the go to place driving up revenue for every one involved including the farmers. Just look at Buffalo county.


Completely agree on the late doe seasons. Make no real sense from a deer herd management perspective if hunting is the primary goal. This is what leads me to believe that politically, our voice in deer management may never be the one most listened to, even if the loudest. This goes for both sides of the aisle.

I have doe tags left I can chase with a bow in the far southern part of the state, but just can't convince myself I feel good about doing it.

As far as "both sides the isle" go... Walker is the one who demanded the WDNR start listening to hunters, end the CWD slaughter, and give us a voice on the CDAC committee. Its people within the WDNR that are finding ways to get around that like hand choosing who will be on the CDAC committees. I agree Walker ain't perfect, but its a heck of a lot better than Doyle. He can't change what he don't know is a problem. He needs to hear from us, not the wdnr THAT IS TRYING TO HIDE OUR THOUGHTS FROM HIM.


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Re: WI boys united?

Unread postby vtbuck » Tue Dec 12, 2017 7:22 am

Democrat or republican is not the issue I wanted to address with this thread. I just want the people making the regs for WI deer hunting to hear the hunters voice. We as members of this forum can make a difference by providing info to others and email, call, whatever it takes to allow our voices to be heard.
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Re: WI boys united?

Unread postby Kraftd » Tue Dec 12, 2017 7:30 am

dan wrote:
Kraftd wrote:
dan wrote:
Kraftd wrote:We also can't assume that our opinions as hunters are the only ones that matter to deer herd management.

Farmers generally want deer numbers down in many areas, insurance companies generally want deer numbers down, in some areas high deer numbers impact other habitat restoration goals due to browsing so biologists want deer numbers down, lower deer numbers can mitigate starvation ad bad winter issues, we still don't understand nearly enough about CWD to know some things for sure so that needs some thought. I'm not saying at all that I'm ok with low deer numbers and the unlimited seasons, just pointing these things out.

Point is, make your voices heard, as suggested, but look at the bigger picture too. Just about everything is political and unfortunately most of the groups I listed above have more political clout than hunters. That's one reason, to me anyways, why it is important for us to stay unified. Us being ethical fair chase hunters and also public land users. Our politics, weapons of choice, methods, etc. may differ, but we're a tiny group nationally, and if we fracture, or let our sport go the way of the european pay to play model, we're doomed.

I agree about the in-fighting, its funny to see gun hunters turn on bow hunters and think its ok to take away a part of our heritage, but they sure wouldn't be willing to loose 1/2 there gun season to a bow hunt for does only.

No matter where you stand on deer numbers, you have got to see that a doe season that kills 50% bucks and eliminates opportunity for bow hunters is just plain wrong. If they gave more doe tags out hunters could regulate the herd themselves. And if they actually managed the deer herd instead of the deer numbers we could grow some of the biggest bucks in the country and become the go to place driving up revenue for every one involved including the farmers. Just look at Buffalo county.


Completely agree on the late doe seasons. Make no real sense from a deer herd management perspective if hunting is the primary goal. This is what leads me to believe that politically, our voice in deer management may never be the one most listened to, even if the loudest. This goes for both sides of the aisle.

I have doe tags left I can chase with a bow in the far southern part of the state, but just can't convince myself I feel good about doing it.

As far as "both sides the isle" go... Walker is the one who demanded the WDNR start listening to hunters, end the CWD slaughter, and give us a voice on the CDAC committee. Its people within the WDNR that are finding ways to get around that like hand choosing who will be on the CDAC committees. I agree Walker ain't perfect, but its a heck of a lot better than Doyle. He can't change what he don't know is a problem. He needs to hear from us, not the wdnr THAT IS TRYING TO HIDE OUR THOUGHTS FROM HIM.


I like to consider myself pretty aplotical. I look at issues and people and decide from there. What comes with that is a near complete distrust of just about every politican.

I agree, especially compared to Doyle, the state of deer hunting in WI has improved under Walker. That said, in my opinion, overall environmental regulation has taken a major hit. I can't help but view some of the concessions to deer hunters as potential political bargaining chips to appease a political base. Taken in a vacuum, it looks like wins, but as part of the bigger overall picture, I remain curious is all.

I think the recent federal conceal carry news could be similar. Route through some positive legislation for your base, to distract from the absolute cluster of a tax plan being railroaded through.

Just my thoughts. I worked at WDNR in the early 2000's. My experience was nothing but positive as far as people dedicated to the resources. A large percentage were also sportsmen and women, who get what we are saying. The issues I saw, and saw get worse under both Doyle and Walker, is the political appointees leading the organization. That's where the science and on the ground management is really being lost, again, in my opinion anyways.
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Re: WI boys united?

Unread postby Jonny » Tue Dec 12, 2017 7:39 am

Kraftd wrote:
dan wrote:
Kraftd wrote:
dan wrote:
Kraftd wrote:We also can't assume that our opinions as hunters are the only ones that matter to deer herd management.

Farmers generally want deer numbers down in many areas, insurance companies generally want deer numbers down, in some areas high deer numbers impact other habitat restoration goals due to browsing so biologists want deer numbers down, lower deer numbers can mitigate starvation ad bad winter issues, we still don't understand nearly enough about CWD to know some things for sure so that needs some thought. I'm not saying at all that I'm ok with low deer numbers and the unlimited seasons, just pointing these things out.

Point is, make your voices heard, as suggested, but look at the bigger picture too. Just about everything is political and unfortunately most of the groups I listed above have more political clout than hunters. That's one reason, to me anyways, why it is important for us to stay unified. Us being ethical fair chase hunters and also public land users. Our politics, weapons of choice, methods, etc. may differ, but we're a tiny group nationally, and if we fracture, or let our sport go the way of the european pay to play model, we're doomed.

I agree about the in-fighting, its funny to see gun hunters turn on bow hunters and think its ok to take away a part of our heritage, but they sure wouldn't be willing to loose 1/2 there gun season to a bow hunt for does only.

No matter where you stand on deer numbers, you have got to see that a doe season that kills 50% bucks and eliminates opportunity for bow hunters is just plain wrong. If they gave more doe tags out hunters could regulate the herd themselves. And if they actually managed the deer herd instead of the deer numbers we could grow some of the biggest bucks in the country and become the go to place driving up revenue for every one involved including the farmers. Just look at Buffalo county.


Completely agree on the late doe seasons. Make no real sense from a deer herd management perspective if hunting is the primary goal. This is what leads me to believe that politically, our voice in deer management may never be the one most listened to, even if the loudest. This goes for both sides of the aisle.

I have doe tags left I can chase with a bow in the far southern part of the state, but just can't convince myself I feel good about doing it.

As far as "both sides the isle" go... Walker is the one who demanded the WDNR start listening to hunters, end the CWD slaughter, and give us a voice on the CDAC committee. Its people within the WDNR that are finding ways to get around that like hand choosing who will be on the CDAC committees. I agree Walker ain't perfect, but its a heck of a lot better than Doyle. He can't change what he don't know is a problem. He needs to hear from us, not the wdnr THAT IS TRYING TO HIDE OUR THOUGHTS FROM HIM.


I like to consider myself pretty aplotical. I look at issues and people and decide from there. What comes with that is a near complete distrust of just about every politican.

I agree, especially compared to Doyle, the state of deer hunting in WI has improved under Walker. That said, in my opinion, overall environmental regulation has taken a major hit. I can't help but view some of the concessions to deer hunters as potential political bargaining chips to appease a political base. Taken in a vacuum, it looks like wins, but as part of the bigger overall picture, I remain curious is all.

I think the recent federal conceal carry news could be similar. Route through some positive legislation for your base, to distract from the absolute cluster of a tax plan being railroaded through.

Just my thoughts. I worked at WDNR in the early 2000's. My experience was nothing but positive as far as people dedicated to the resources. A large percentage were also sportsmen and women, who get what we are saying. The issues I saw, and saw get worse under both Doyle and Walker, is the political appointees leading the organization. That's where the science and on the ground management is really being lost, again, in my opinion anyways.


It has. Look at the high capacity well permits. DNR can't even review them to see if there is any impact. They have to approve it. Then the dnr gets sued by lake associations due to excessive drawdowns on the lake. (Pleasant Lake and Clean Water vs WI DNR for example) Then the court sides in favor of the lake association because public doctrine.
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Re: WI boys united?

Unread postby rbuck » Tue Dec 12, 2017 7:41 am

I hunt zone 3 in southeastern MN. I feel your pain.

We have an open gun season every weekend, with the exception of 1, from mid-October to late December. We have a 4 day youth gun season the 3rd weekend in October, a week off, 2 weekends of A gun season (first 2 weekends in November), 2 weekends of B gun season, and then 3 weekends of muzzleloader season. The first weekend of muzzleloader overlaps with the last weekend of B gun season. So, from mid-October until mid/late December we have 7 out of 8 weekends dedicated to one gun season or another.
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Re: WI boys united?

Unread postby Rutnstrut » Tue Dec 12, 2017 7:50 am

Kraftd wrote:We also can't assume that our opinions as hunters are the only ones that matter to deer herd management.

Farmers generally want deer numbers down in many areas, insurance companies generally want deer numbers down, in some areas high deer numbers impact other habitat restoration goals due to browsing so biologists want deer numbers down, lower deer numbers can mitigate starvation ad bad winter issues, we still don't understand nearly enough about CWD to know some things for sure so that needs some thought. I'm not saying at all that I'm ok with low deer numbers and the unlimited seasons, just pointing these things out.

Point is, make your voices heard, as suggested, but look at the bigger picture too. Just about everything is political and unfortunately most of the groups I listed above have more political clout than hunters. That's one reason, to me anyways, why it is important for us to stay unified. Us being ethical fair chase hunters and also public land users. Our politics, weapons of choice, methods, etc. may differ, but we're a tiny group nationally, and if we fracture, or let our sport go the way of the european pay to play model, we're doomed.



For sure there are other interests involved in deer management. However I have personally seen the CDAC in 2 different counties dismiss landowners and hunters in a disrespectful, rude way. It was pure arrogance, and it put a lot of people off from wanting to be involved anymore.
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Re: WI boys united?

Unread postby Jeff G » Tue Dec 12, 2017 7:52 am

rbuck wrote:I hunt zone 3 in southeastern MN. I feel your pain.

We have an open gun season every weekend, with the exception of 1, from mid-October to late December. We have a 4 day youth gun season the 3rd weekend in October, a week off, 2 weekends of A gun season (first 2 weekends in November), 2 weekends of B gun season, and then 3 weekends of muzzleloader season. The first weekend of muzzleloader overlaps with the last weekend of B gun season. So, from mid-October until mid/late December we have 7 out of 8 weekends dedicated to one gun season or another.


I hunt and own a farm there. The huge difference in that part of MN there are antler restrictions (4pt on 1 horn) and the county I hunt has a 2 deer/year limit. 1 buck 1 doe or 2 does max. they are not out slaughtering the doe or young buck population even with the many gun seasons. you can still hunt bucks with any weapon during all those seasons.
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Re: WI boys united?

Unread postby Kraftd » Tue Dec 12, 2017 8:09 am

Rutnstrut wrote:
Kraftd wrote:We also can't assume that our opinions as hunters are the only ones that matter to deer herd management.

Farmers generally want deer numbers down in many areas, insurance companies generally want deer numbers down, in some areas high deer numbers impact other habitat restoration goals due to browsing so biologists want deer numbers down, lower deer numbers can mitigate starvation ad bad winter issues, we still don't understand nearly enough about CWD to know some things for sure so that needs some thought. I'm not saying at all that I'm ok with low deer numbers and the unlimited seasons, just pointing these things out.

Point is, make your voices heard, as suggested, but look at the bigger picture too. Just about everything is political and unfortunately most of the groups I listed above have more political clout than hunters. That's one reason, to me anyways, why it is important for us to stay unified. Us being ethical fair chase hunters and also public land users. Our politics, weapons of choice, methods, etc. may differ, but we're a tiny group nationally, and if we fracture, or let our sport go the way of the european pay to play model, we're doomed.



For sure there are other interests involved in deer management. However I have personally seen the CDAC in 2 different counties dismiss landowners and hunters in a disrespectful, rude way. It was pure arrogance, and it put a lot of people off from wanting to be involved anymore.


I've heard interesting stories as well. I live out off state, so have not attended a meeting. I think the CDAC concept is intriguing, but in the end opens up for the collection of wide ranging, largely anecdotal feedback, that just has to be difficult to vet and apply.
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Re: WI boys united?

Unread postby dan » Tue Dec 12, 2017 10:39 pm

Rutnstrut wrote:
Kraftd wrote:We also can't assume that our opinions as hunters are the only ones that matter to deer herd management.

Farmers generally want deer numbers down in many areas, insurance companies generally want deer numbers down, in some areas high deer numbers impact other habitat restoration goals due to browsing so biologists want deer numbers down, lower deer numbers can mitigate starvation ad bad winter issues, we still don't understand nearly enough about CWD to know some things for sure so that needs some thought. I'm not saying at all that I'm ok with low deer numbers and the unlimited seasons, just pointing these things out.

Point is, make your voices heard, as suggested, but look at the bigger picture too. Just about everything is political and unfortunately most of the groups I listed above have more political clout than hunters. That's one reason, to me anyways, why it is important for us to stay unified. Us being ethical fair chase hunters and also public land users. Our politics, weapons of choice, methods, etc. may differ, but we're a tiny group nationally, and if we fracture, or let our sport go the way of the european pay to play model, we're doomed.



For sure there are other interests involved in deer management. However I have personally seen the CDAC in 2 different counties dismiss landowners and hunters in a disrespectful, rude way. It was pure arrogance, and it put a lot of people off from wanting to be involved anymore.

Yep... I seen that too...
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Re: WI boys united?

Unread postby dan » Tue Dec 12, 2017 10:42 pm

Jeff G wrote:
rbuck wrote:I hunt zone 3 in southeastern MN. I feel your pain.

We have an open gun season every weekend, with the exception of 1, from mid-October to late December. We have a 4 day youth gun season the 3rd weekend in October, a week off, 2 weekends of A gun season (first 2 weekends in November), 2 weekends of B gun season, and then 3 weekends of muzzleloader season. The first weekend of muzzleloader overlaps with the last weekend of B gun season. So, from mid-October until mid/late December we have 7 out of 8 weekends dedicated to one gun season or another.


I hunt and own a farm there. The huge difference in that part of MN there are antler restrictions (4pt on 1 horn) and the county I hunt has a 2 deer/year limit. 1 buck 1 doe or 2 does max. they are not out slaughtering the doe or young buck population even with the many gun seasons. you can still hunt bucks with any weapon during all those seasons.

You might be able to hunt with any weapon during a gun season, but it sure ruins the experience and lessons the results to have to share the woods. I won't comment on Minnesota's hunting cause I rarely hunt there. But at least they can bowhunt for bucks while they have there gun hunts.
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Re: WI boys united?

Unread postby dan » Tue Dec 12, 2017 10:51 pm

Over all, if guys had tags to shoot does they will shoot them. We don't need special seasons for them. We have 4 monthes of deer hunting where you could fill those tags. Taking away and destroying the traditional late season bow hunt is not the way to manage or improve hunting. It don't matter if you think we have to many does and need to have a doe only season (even in counties were no doe hunting is allowed :roll: ) or if your conservative or Liberal... If you think we need a "doe only" season, do it when it don't cost us a valuable traditional hunt. Do it in August or January before or after the traditional hunting.

In my opinion anybody who could not kill a doe in 4 months of bowhunting, 9 days of rifle hunting, and 9 days of muzzle loader is either not trying, not skilled, or don't want to. These special seasons just hurt hunting.
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Re: WI boys united?

Unread postby Hatchetman » Wed Dec 13, 2017 12:50 am

dan wrote:Over all, if guys had tags to shoot does they will shoot them. We don't need special seasons for them. We have 4 monthes of deer hunting where you could fill those tags. Taking away and destroying the traditional late season bow hunt is not the way to manage or improve hunting. It don't matter if you think we have to many does and need to have a doe only season (even in counties were no doe hunting is allowed :roll: ) or if your conservative or Liberal... If you think we need a "doe only" season, do it when it don't cost us a valuable traditional hunt. Do it in August or January before or after the traditional hunting.

In my opinion anybody who could not kill a doe in 4 months of bowhunting, 9 days of rifle hunting, and 9 days of muzzle loader is either not trying, not skilled, or don't want to. These special seasons just hurt hunting.


Agreed, AND.. If you couldn't kill an antlerless deer in a nine day gun season and a 10 day muzzle loader season in the area you hunt do you think that maybe , just maybe... you shouldn't be shooting one anyway if they are that few and far between!!!!


A thread like this gets everyone fired up but in reality if everyone who has read this sends a letter to Walker, I would bet they'd all be different,,, That's the problem... Trying to get everyone on the same page. Cause if where not on the same page it's just a bunch of BS to Walker's staff. This guy wants this this guy wants that! I think it all ends up in the circular file...

Dan,seeing you are hosting this site, could you compile a few simple questions in a survey post so we all are on the same page?
Like...
Who's in favor of eliminating the Dec antlerless 4 day gun season? Yea or Nay (that's a Yea from Me)
Who thinks we should have an August antlerless season? Yea or Nay ( that's a Nay from Me)
Who thinks we should have a January antlerless season? Yea or Nay ( that's a BIG Nay from Me)
See what I mean...
Convince me why and I'd be willing to concead for the good of the group, otherwise my letter will be different than your letter different than "Johnny's" letter different than "kraft's" letter an so on.
We might feel all liberated by sending a letter to Walker to get our beef off our chest, but is it gonna DO anything when we all have different agenda's
A well constructed letter with a couple hundred Beast signatures on it, That may get someones attention!
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Re: WI boys united?

Unread postby vtbuck » Wed Dec 13, 2017 1:30 am

The purpose of this thread was to unite hunters in WI for a cause. It’s our state . We should have a say in how it’s run. If we put our differences/egos aside for a minute we can do something to better the long term hunting in our once great state. Bickering will get us nowhere. UNITE
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Re: WI boys united?

Unread postby stash59 » Wed Dec 13, 2017 2:54 am

To be honest I think a separate antlerless season is necessary. Alot of counties still need herd reductions. The majority of deer hunters only gun hunt. If you process your own animals. Having to do 2 or 3 at once is alot of work.

The problem is "when" to have the antlerless hunt. I think August makes the most sense as a Beast style hunter. The pressure from an early doe hunt will push the bucks into the safer beds. Instead of allowing them to be in some of the more summer, seasonal ones. Making finding them easier. Besides if held in early August the deer will have a month to calm down.

August doesn't interfere with the traditional bow only late season. Is better than January because all bucks will be carrying their very obvious antlers.

Some will say it's too hot and too many bugs. I say look at our Florida Beasts. Many are getting it done down there in August!!!!

JMHO :think:
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Re: WI boys united?

Unread postby Kraftd » Wed Dec 13, 2017 3:07 am

stash59 wrote:To be honest I think a separate antlerless season is necessary. Alot of counties still need herd reductions. The majority of deer hunters only gun hunt. If you process your own animals. Having to do 2 or 3 at once is alot of work.

The problem is "when" to have the antlerless hunt. I think August makes the most sense as a Beast style hunter. The pressure from an early doe hunt will push the bucks into the safer beds. Instead of allowing them to be in some of the more summer, seasonal ones. Making finding them easier. Besides if held in early August the deer will have a month to calm down.

August doesn't interfere with the traditional bow only late season. Is better than January because all bucks will be carrying their very obvious antlers.

Some will say it's too hot and too many bugs. I say look at our Florida Beasts. Many are getting it done down there in August!!!!

JMHO :think:


I still see a fair number of spots in August sometimes. I think there could be issues with fawn survival, and either people won't shoot 40 pound fawns, or it will be a REALLY bad look to the non-hunting public. Not trying to be argumentative for arguments sake. Despite some minor disagreements, on this specific issue I'm with Dan, these seasons aren't necessary. Especially with crosssbows now, if getting a doe or two is your priority and you can't get it done, then, the area doesn't need a heard reduction. For areas that clearly do, I'd be ok allowing guns for part of December for doe only, ut still allow archery buck hunting.


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