Hill Country

[Buckfever]

This is a very unsettling video in that I felt compelled to watch it 4 days in a row and here I'm about to sit down and watch it again. I'll be honest there are things in there that I definitely disagree with. As an example, where the bottom runs parallel to the prevailing wind there isn't going to be a wind tunnel effect. Another thing is that where you have bluffs and mostly Oak flats with a few shelfs, there is no 1/3 from top, yet the same terrain features of the points and draws work exactly the same way. And the point of using terrain to access an area and setup undetected in close proximity to the buck bedding, illustrates just how rewarding this type of hunt is. The other thing that isn't quite captured as strongly as I'd like is that the discussion of the travel routes from the high to the low isn't emphasized as strongly as it could be. I almost sensed Dan's frustration during the video that the depth of the points wasn't being made as he'd like. The other thing that I'd point out is that from the bedding to feeding, is sometimes up towards the Oak flats from the point bedding and if you pay attention you'll find Dan trying to tidy up the discussion to make it more robust.

Yet even with those small observations, hill country is a powerful offering in that even if you don't fully agree with all the points, it flat out makes you think in such a robust way that it's right there with Marsh bucks.

Dan you and Andrae redo these and I want to be the first in line. But even as is, great stuff.

[Schultzy]

This is just a very disturbing video.

I applaud you for your continued honesty on the forums here but your choice of words are terrible In this Instance. Agreeing or disagreeing with Dan's tactics or anyones tactics on here Is fine but be a little more respectful about It.

[Buckfever]

This is just a very disturbing video.

I applaud you for your continued honesty on the forums here but your choice of words are terrible In this Instance. Agreeing or disagreeing with Dan's tactics or anyones tactics on here Is fine but be a little more respectful about It.

Oh I'm sorry, I meant disturbing in that I felt compelled to watch it 5 days in a row. I'll change the language.

[Buckfever]

Dan can we change the language on the first 2 lines to: "This is a very unsettling video in that I felt compelled to watch it 4 days in a row and here I'm about to sit down and watch it again."

I guess it was poorly worded, it was cynicism I meant no disrespect.

[Schultzy]

Oh I'm sorry, I meant disturbing in that I felt compelled to watch it 5 days in a row.

Lol!! Sounds familiar!! I think I've watched It 6 to 7 times and still I see stuff I missed the previous times. Sorry I misunderstood you.

[Autumn Ninja]

As an example, where the bottom runs parallel to the prevailing wind there isn't going to be a wind tunnel effect.

I may be able to help, I'm sure dan will chime in any time also.

I'm not quit sure what you saying here? Could you give an example?

Another thing is that where you have bluffs and mostly Oak flats with a few shelfs, there is no 1/3 from top, yet the same terrain features of the points and draws work exactly the same way.

I hunt the same type of terrain you discribe...some place in the upper 1/3 is where the beds are 90% of the time. Its based on the terrain its self, if you have a good flat that drops off real step and fast the bed could be at the upper 1/10. If the hill gradually slops off over a long distance then drops of step right at the bottom, the bed could be at the lower 1/10. This drop usually accrues some place between the top and upper 1/3 of the hill.

See bold statement.

And the point of using terrain to access an area and setup undetected in close proximity to the buck bedding, illustrates just how rewarding this type of hunt is. The other thing that isn't quite captured as strongly as I'd like is that the discussion of the travel routes from the high to the low isn't emphasized as strongly as it could be. I almost sensed Dan's frustration during the video that the depth of the points wasn't being made as he'd like. The other thing that I'd point out is that from the bedding to feeding, is sometimes up towards the Oak flats from the point bedding and if you pay attention you'll find Dan trying to tidy up the discussion to make it more robust.

Dans bucks do not do this and I don't want to go into a bunch details. The bucks where I hunt have a distinct tendency of using the falling thermals and cross winds in relation to the terrain to there advantage.

[Buckfever]

I'll give an example. I'm hunting a buck right now. Yes he beds a third of the way from the top but the prevailing wind runs from the west and the ravine runs east west. He actually beds in the cut and uses the debris and deadfalls for cover and he has his bed on a little shelf behind the cover. From that vantage he can see the entire ravine in both directions and all the way 200 yards to the east of the doe bedding. There is seldom a wind over the top,but he's unapproachable from the top. His bedding is up against a 100 ft gorge to the east again he's unapproachable from that side. Multiple escape routes. And the cut isn't even visible from the top. Up against that gorge it looks wide open from the vantage of the bedding. No one ever bothers with that area. He just sits there and let's the hunters walk right on by.

[Buckfever]

So yeah there's a lot of principles that are covered, like an area that has no human scent, that no one would think a buck would use. The importance of locating the bed and seeing how everything works off of that. The safety of the terrain features the visual advantage that the bedding provides, the protection that the terrain provides from the areas from which he can't scent. The multiple escape routes. Proximity to a safe water source.

But there is no thermal tunnel in this spot because the prevailing wind does not come over the top. He is bedding in a cut or draw or however you want to call it. And he's damned near impossible to kill. 2 years in a row he's come through the same damned spot almost to the day, during the last few minutes of legal. 2 years ago it was the 11th last year it was the 12th. He comes out of his bed scent checks the doe bedding and only comes out when the doe are coming in. I made my set on Sunday 30 yards closer to the doe bedding, to let me catch him just a few minutes earlier. I'll set the sticks in September and it will be 2 sits that's it 11/11 and 11/12, I got to catch him the first time he comes through. And I'm going to have to get there early because the chasing gets insane in that bedding by 3.

I'm not saying that what was presented wasn't valid, but if you pay attention, you'll see Dan trying to broaden the discussion away from the cingularity of what was presented on some of the points.

And I don't want to be misrepresented here, I think Hill country is an extremely powerful presentation, you just got to stay open minded about it.

I put this up as much as anything, because I'm going to go through it again and take notes and put them up for discussion so we can parse them a bit.

[Autumn Ninja]

But there is no thermal tunnel in this spot because the prevailing wind does not come over the top.

There are multiple reasons that a mature buck beds where he dose....and theres not always a wind tunnel. But you can always bet he is there for a specific reason.

With that said....in hill country if a buck beds 70% of the time for this reason (high side of positive negative terrain with a leeward wind, beds 15% of the time for this reason (structure and/or cover) and 15% for this reason (access).....Its a number and odds game, I will bank on the 70% every time. And if I where to try and point someone in the right direction, as Dan is doing in the DVD, I would try and guide you toward that 70% bedding tendency, because its a numbers game.

[PASwamper]

As far as that 1/3 rule goes I've thrown it out the window. I think its exactly like autumn ninja said it. But the 1/3 rule in the video was what led me to thinking about it and developing my own understanding of the leeward side and thermals. And I think the thermal tunnel idea is also a good way to think of things but you just have to understand that there is so much more going on other than thermals meeting the leeward wind. And theres also gonna be places mature bucks bed that don't make any sense using those theories but they do so because they are in some way giving themselves an advantage. The video really changed the way I think when I'm out there cause its not just about following some rules and strategies its about using what you know to figure out whats really going on. Great topic by the way!

[Autumn Ninja]

As far as that 1/3 rule goes I've thrown it out the window.

I don't think Dan is talking about a specific spot 1/3 down the side of the hill....I take it as the upper 1/3 of the hill. Its based on what the terrain is doing and this dose accrue from the upper 1/3 to the top of the hill 90% of the time.

[Buckfever]

Autumn Ninja and PASwamper, great discussion, that's good feedback.

Maybe more later if I ever stop shoveling snow.

[dan]

Ninja is pretty much right on with his answers. And Buckfever, your right, there was some arguing over the bed positions on the hill ( 1/3 rule ) which I gave in to. Andrae called me after he 1st watched it and asked why I let them put that in there. He said, your going to get a lot of crap about that. I am surprised I have not gotten more. It really does apply to a lot of ground though, and like Ninja said, the video is based on what deer do most of the time, not all the time.
The problem with my two ex-partners is that they have only hunted hills in Buffalo county Wisconsin in a couple of propertys and the rules apply quite well to those propertys and that terrain. And really, though I have hunted hilly terrain in Illinois, Iowa, and other areas of Wisconsin that is much different, the hilly terrain where I have hunted in the Midwest is much different than that which Ninja and a few others on this forum hunt.
One thing I have noticed thats a difference is that there are staged hills. They have benchs where bedding likely would occur much lower than the 1/3 rule applies. I have seen some of this in Illinois where the hill terrain was formed through erosion rather than glaciers, but not to the extremes of some of the mapping recently posted.
What Andrae and I wanted to say in the DVD was that the bucks tend to bed at the point of the hill where the slope changes from gradual to extreme. And even that don't cover everything.
If we re-do the Hill country DVD, maybe we can get some interviews from Ninja to cover it from his perspective.

[headgear]

Good stuff guys, I think it's good to have an open mind when applying these kind of tactics. Speaking in general terms works some of the time but I don't think you can ever put anything in stone, especially when individual bucks and properties can be so different.

I can't find a lot of cattail marshes where I hunt but I have found some buck beds on small islands in floating bogs or other swampy/wet areas. These area both very similar and very different at the same time to the marshes in the video.

In the bigwoods areas I hunt I use both Hill Country and Marsh tatics depending on the location. Both videos have the best info I have ever seen on hunting mature bucks but they can only take you so far. Getting out in the woods and customizing those tatics to your own area is the key.

[dan]

Right on Headgear.