Like squirrels and rabbits

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Grasshopper
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Like squirrels and rabbits

Unread postby Grasshopper » Fri Oct 20, 2017 12:24 pm

I've heard Dan a few times say that mature bucks are a different animal than other deer. It's like hunting squirrels and rabbits. I'm wondering which the mature buck is like the squirrel or rabbit?

If I had to guess I'd say the rabbit, because I've been seeing a lot of deer and a lot of squirrels just not mature bucks. Now rabbits on the other hand are something you don't see everyday around here.

I don't know if I should be glad I'm seeing deer almost every time I go out, or concerned?


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PK_
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Re: Like squirrels and rabbits

Unread postby PK_ » Fri Oct 20, 2017 1:33 pm

I think he meant that hunting deer and expecting to kill a mature buck is like hunting for squirrels or rabbits and expecting to kill a deer.

Seeing deer isn't bad. You will see deer in places where you can kill a mature buck, but seeing deer doesn't mean it is a place where you can kill a mature buck.

Clear as mud eh?
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Boogieman1
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Re: Like squirrels and rabbits

Unread postby Boogieman1 » Fri Oct 20, 2017 1:44 pm

I've also noticed I see a lot of rabbits in the thick understory (bedding) and see all the squirrels in the open woods :think:
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mauser06
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Re: Like squirrels and rabbits

Unread postby mauser06 » Fri Oct 20, 2017 4:08 pm

Like was said, seeing deer isn't ALWAYS a bad thing. But mature bucks are usually different animals than the rest of the deer. They got mature by not being killed.

In areas most of us hunt that means avoiding people and hunters. Another post about saddles touched on that. Saddles are great to see deer...but most saddles are heavily hunted. They are easy to find, usually covered in sign and often talked about..figure out how a deer avoids that saddle and you'll probably find mature bucks.


Also, you aren't gunna see or kill a mature buck where there aren't any. You have to have a realistic expectation. I don't look for 180 class bucks because I know very few exsist where I hunt. Possible...but not likely.

I do a lot of smaller drives with a few buddies in gun and Flintlock season here...the ONLY time I see mature bucks do what the rest of the deer do is when we literally push them into strange woods. That's when we force them to slip up. We rarely kill any and that is why. We have taught them how to survive. Year after year we push the same stuff.. the same ways...and shooters in the same spots. Only time mature bucks hit the dirt from our pushes is because we hunted strange woods, setup the push differently or the buck was in woods he didn't live in. Maybe once or twice a year we make that happen.

Hunters are predictable. We all learn to hunt the same stuff. The ones that live a long life learned to avoid the norm.


Nearly every mature buck encounter I've had has been a spot that people just don't think to hunt. Or won't hunt. Even during the rut.

That's why you see us with pretty specialized stands. It's getting rare if I'm more than 3 sticks high..maybe 12ft? Getting high isn't an option in many areas I find myself now. Even during the rut...that's where I'm finding big bucks roaming in daylight.

The first time you're in a 6" tree 8ft off the ground you feel pretty ridiculous...lol.


If you live where there is snow...get on a set of big buck tracks one day and follow him. All day. See where he goes. Where he beds. Figure out how he is surviving. It will teach you a lot and you'll likely see that he isn't following the main travel routes with the rest of the deer...

I've found many beds either at the base of heavily hunted stands or just down wind of them. He sees/hears/smells that hunter coming and he ducks out.

Doe tend to survive by being more of a herd animal. Bed in circles.. lots of eyes/ears/noses to alert the ground as they bed and move and feed. Mature bucks tend to be solitary animals and got that way avoiding hunters.


Seems like I rambled a bunch...but those are all points that set the lightbulb off for me.
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Stanley
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Re: Like squirrels and rabbits

Unread postby Stanley » Sat Oct 21, 2017 3:42 pm

Squirrel hunting is a lot like big buck hunting. You find the squirrel den and the food source and your in like Flin.
You can fool some of the bucks, all of the time, and fool all of the bucks, some of the time, however you certainly can't fool all of the bucks, all of the time.
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Re: Like squirrels and rabbits

Unread postby JoeRE » Sun Oct 22, 2017 10:03 am

All herbivores are similar in my opinion, big picture. Stationary food sources and bed/nest/den. They all live in fear too. Hunting predators whether its a coyote or something much bigger is different. Predators think differently cuz they are hunters, have to chase down or ambush food. I think herbivores are not as intelligent as predators either. If a 5 year old buck was as smart as a 5 year old coyote good luck ever getting an arrow in one. That is about all the further I would take it...big bucks are big bucks nothing else :lol:
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Stanley
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Re: Like squirrels and rabbits

Unread postby Stanley » Sun Oct 22, 2017 4:17 pm

JoeRE wrote:All herbivores are similar in my opinion, big picture. Stationary food sources and bed/nest/den. They all live in fear too. Hunting predators whether its a coyote or something much bigger is different. Predators think differently cuz they are hunters, have to chase down or ambush food. I think herbivores are not as intelligent as predators either. If a 5 year old buck was as smart as a 5 year old coyote good luck ever getting an arrow in one. That is about all the further I would take it...big bucks are big bucks nothing else :lol:

Are humans, herbivores, carnivores or omnivores? :think:
You can fool some of the bucks, all of the time, and fool all of the bucks, some of the time, however you certainly can't fool all of the bucks, all of the time.
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Re: Like squirrels and rabbits

Unread postby JoeRE » Tue Oct 24, 2017 2:31 pm

Stanley wrote:
JoeRE wrote:All herbivores are similar in my opinion, big picture. Stationary food sources and bed/nest/den. They all live in fear too. Hunting predators whether its a coyote or something much bigger is different. Predators think differently cuz they are hunters, have to chase down or ambush food. I think herbivores are not as intelligent as predators either. If a 5 year old buck was as smart as a 5 year old coyote good luck ever getting an arrow in one. That is about all the further I would take it...big bucks are big bucks nothing else :lol:

Are humans, herbivores, carnivores or omnivores? :think:



We have canine teeth so I think of us as carnivores even if some chose not to partake :lol:

Same with bears and coyotes....they both eat a lot of plant food. But they are predators in my book.
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Re: Like squirrels and rabbits

Unread postby Nelson87 » Tue Oct 24, 2017 11:30 pm

:!:
JoeRE wrote:
Stanley wrote:
JoeRE wrote:All herbivores are similar in my opinion, big picture. Stationary food sources and bed/nest/den. They all live in fear too. Hunting predators whether its a coyote or something much bigger is different. Predators think differently cuz they are hunters, have to chase down or ambush food. I think herbivores are not as intelligent as predators either. If a 5 year old buck was as smart as a 5 year old coyote good luck ever getting an arrow in one. That is about all the further I would take it...big bucks are big bucks nothing else :lol:

Are humans, herbivores, carnivores or omnivores? :think:



We have canine teeth so I think of us as carnivores even if some chose not to partake :lol:

Same with bears and coyotes....they both eat a lot of plant food. But they are predators in my book.


Guess what I saw in the produce section the other day? Smart Dogs- a vegan hot dog. :o
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brancher147
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Re: Like squirrels and rabbits

Unread postby brancher147 » Wed Oct 25, 2017 12:19 am

Grasshopper wrote:I've heard Dan a few times say that mature bucks are a different animal than other deer. It's like hunting squirrels and rabbits. I'm wondering which the mature buck is like the squirrel or rabbit?

If I had to guess I'd say the rabbit, because I've been seeing a lot of deer and a lot of squirrels just not mature bucks. Now rabbits on the other hand are something you don't see everyday around here.

I don't know if I should be glad I'm seeing deer almost every time I go out, or concerned?


To me, this comparison has to do with habitat. squirrels are easily found gathering nuts in the open mature woods. Rabbits need thick brush and early successional habitat to survive. Much of our woods is open mature timber with very little thick brush and young forest. Therefore we see more squirrels and not any rabbits. Does and young bucks are a lot of times like squirrels, feeding in wide open areas and are easy to see. Mature bucks are more like rabbits in that they prefer thicker, rougher areas, where they do not get bothered. So, if you are not seeing big bucks, you are probably lacking in big buck habitat. I know we are lacking it in the mountains of WV...
Some do. Some don't. I just might...


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