Bedding Question

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jpsmith270
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Bedding Question

Unread postby jpsmith270 » Tue Oct 17, 2017 1:05 pm

Sorry if this had been kicked around before (which I am sure it has), but I wanted to try to get some clarification on some details regarding general bedding (bucks & does).

I was doing some quick scouting this past weekend and was planning to drop a camera in an area that I wanted to get some intel over the next month or so. The area that I was planning to drop the camera is on a transition line between mature pines (with undergrowth) and mature hardwoods on some perineal scrapes. There is some known buck bedding about 150 yards or so around the corner on a point in the hardwoods.

On my way to the area, I jumped a lone deer in the pines about 100 yards from the transition directly beside the logging road that I was using to walk in. The deer didn't run far and never blew. I couldn't tell if the deer was just passing through or if I actually jumped it from a bed. So.....curiosity got the best of me and I stepped over to glance at the area the deer was located and noticed a fresh bed that was up against some bushy like hedges. I found a few pieces of hair in the bed and it was actually still very warm from where the deer had been bedding.

However, here is what has me a little puzzled (and maybe I am simply overthinking this a little too much). The deer was bedded on the leeward side of a gradual slope, but it was bedded with the wind in its face and with no field of view.

Do deer (bucks and does) generally always bed with a vantage point from what you all have seen? Will they ever bed, as a rule of thumb, in places they cannot see very good or with a wrong wind? We have a lot of thick planted pines in SC and I have always wondered if anyone has seen bucks bed inside of this stuff with not vantage point or do they generally stay on the transitions? This goes for the does as well.

I am by no means attempting to draw a conclusion on one instance, but I am curious to know how often you all find instances like this.

Thanks!


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Ashreve93
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Re: Bedding Question

Unread postby Ashreve93 » Tue Oct 17, 2017 1:48 pm

I am nowhere near as knowledgeable as some of these guys, but i do know that deer never position themselves in an area where they can't smell at least the highest danger area. Seems like you went past a doe bedding. I hunt a doe bedding where the wind is right, but they can't see more than 30 yards, but they can hear far beyond their sight.

A little story, I was hunting down wind of a doe bedding with oaks all around. The doe of course didn't know I was there. I saw the doe pick their head up and look towards the hillside I was sitting on, but about 70 yards around the hill. When i looked that way i could faintly hear something walking, and noticed a porcupine. The doe looked towards it for 10 seconds then kept feeding on the acorns. I know those deer couldn't see the porcupine, so why didn't they run? Well... they could hear the way it walked, knew what it was, and concluded there was no danger. Crazy! I can't even tell the difference between a 150" buck and a 4 lb squirrel!

So, if a deer can smell, and hear, then sight isn't a huge concern. And of course, smell outweighs sight 1000:1. But a deer simply won't bed in an area where wind isn't right for them. Would you hunt in the middle of a corn field where you can't see more than 5 feet? So, the wind blew from that logging road to the bed, so the doe could smell you without you even knowing it was there. She bedded there because of the old phrase, "keep your friends close and enemies closer." She knows people access the woods from that trail, and if anyone does, she will know immediately! (This is her vantage point. It's not visual, but she can hear and smell you rather easily)

Personally, I have seen a couple buck beds on transition pines, it's actually a good bed if the wind is right because it's at times so thick and people can't reach him without him knowing. I have also seen doe bed in the middle of 100sqyd pines. I think because of the smell/sound thing i mentioned earlier.

I doubt there was "wrong wind" take milkweed there and see where your wind is REALLY going.. hill country is real tough to tell unless you use milkweek. I just hunted an area where my wind was blowing east, stepped 10 ft towards a swamp, then it went west for 20 yards, then headed south until it went out of sight. I would have never noticed that without milkweed.

Oh And the fact that it didn't go far before stopping tells me it probably just heard you.. didn't smell you. I may be wrong there.

Like i said, these guys are a lot more knowledgeable than me, but this is my two cents. Hopefully one of them can shed some more light soon.
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Tennhunter3
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Re: Bedding Question

Unread postby Tennhunter3 » Tue Oct 17, 2017 2:04 pm

It sounds like a young buck that doesn't know how to use his skills yet.

Does bed in groups of usually 3 or more.

A mature buck would bed smarter.
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Re: Bedding Question

Unread postby jpsmith270 » Wed Oct 18, 2017 2:51 am

Tennhunter3 wrote:It sounds like a young buck that doesn't know how to use his skills yet.

Does bed in groups of usually 3 or more.

A mature buck would bed smarter.


Yeah....that was my guess as well. I have just always been curious to know if some deer ever regularly bed with no real vantage point.
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Re: Bedding Question

Unread postby dan » Wed Oct 18, 2017 4:27 am

They don't have to "see" danger, but I have yet to see a buck bed facing the wind. I am sure there is the rare exception though. If that is true, I would expect it was not mature.
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Ragingun
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Re: Bedding Question

Unread postby Ragingun » Wed Oct 18, 2017 4:55 am

Next to never will deer not use the wind to their advantage. However, they will bury themselves in some thick crap where they can't see at all. Cat tails is the first one that comes to mind. Here is a photo of primary bed that was buried with less than 10 feet of visibility in any given direction. This deer relied on the wind and it's hearing. You couldn't get through the crap without making quite a ruckus. The one time I bumped him I've never heard crashing like that before and his 177" rack was taking out brush like mad. He relied a lot on his hearing.

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Re: Bedding Question

Unread postby jpsmith270 » Wed Oct 18, 2017 5:33 am

Ragingun wrote:Next to never will deer not use the wind to their advantage. However, they will bury themselves in some thick crap where they can't see at all. Cat tails is the first one that comes to mind. Here is a photo of primary bed that was buried with less than 10 feet of visibility in any given direction. This deer relied on the wind and it's hearing. You couldn't get through the crap without making quite a ruckus. The one time I bumped him I've never heard crashing like that before and his 177" rack was taking out brush like mad. He relied a lot on his hearing.

Image


Thanks for that. This is exactly what I am talking about.

Even though the deer was bedded in the cattails with no real vantage point, we the bed still close to a transition line?
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Re: Bedding Question

Unread postby jpsmith270 » Wed Oct 18, 2017 5:34 am

dan wrote:They don't have to "see" danger, but I have yet to see a buck bed facing the wind. I am sure there is the rare exception though. If that is true, I would expect it was not mature.


Maybe he was a lot like some of my coworkers.......just a little off! :lol: :lol:
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Re: Bedding Question

Unread postby Ragingun » Wed Oct 18, 2017 5:59 am

jpsmith270 wrote:Thanks for that. This is exactly what I am talking about.

Even though the deer was bedded in the cattails with no real vantage point, we the bed still close to a transition line?


Beds are not always in close proximity to transition lines. However, that doesn't mean that in a specific way they don't relate to transition lines. Dan talks about this often(he can correct me if I'm wrong since I only speak for myself)when he talks about the deer being in a bed for a reason or traveling where he does for a reason. There's always a reason a buck is where he is. His bed may be hundreds of yards from any transition line however there is a connection to it somehow. That connection is almost always some kind of protection. Couple examples: a flat field with a single tree in the middle with a little tall grass around it. There are no real transitions anywhere within hundreds of yards (some may call the tree a transition) but the field is used for protection for his ability to see very well and he's confident in his ability that he can run to beat @#$% if he needs to. This also coincides with what Dan says as an area no one would ever think to hunt. Another example is seemingly endless cat tails. Most times the buck will want to bed towards the edge but if he's pressured he may just move way out into the middle of the cat tails if the wind allows him to feel safe with no transition line in sight.

Having said all that the buck bed will always relate to a transition line via an escape route or a trail that leads to the bed. Hope that makes sense.
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Re: Bedding Question

Unread postby UofLbowhunter » Wed Oct 18, 2017 6:15 am

Great responce ragingun! :clap: To add to it, basically mature bucks are gonna bed where they feel the safest using what senses he has the most advantage using! Period !
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Re: Bedding Question

Unread postby jpsmith270 » Wed Oct 18, 2017 12:42 pm

Ragingun wrote:
jpsmith270 wrote:Thanks for that. This is exactly what I am talking about.

Even though the deer was bedded in the cattails with no real vantage point, we the bed still close to a transition line?


Beds are not always in close proximity to transition lines. However, that doesn't mean that in a specific way they don't relate to transition lines. Dan talks about this often(he can correct me if I'm wrong since I only speak for myself)when he talks about the deer being in a bed for a reason or traveling where he does for a reason. There's always a reason a buck is where he is. His bed may be hundreds of yards from any transition line however there is a connection to it somehow. That connection is almost always some kind of protection. Couple examples: a flat field with a single tree in the middle with a little tall grass around it. There are no real transitions anywhere within hundreds of yards (some may call the tree a transition) but the field is used for protection for his ability to see very well and he's confident in his ability that he can run to beat @#$% if he needs to. This also coincides with what Dan says as an area no one would ever think to hunt. Another example is seemingly endless cat tails. Most times the buck will want to bed towards the edge but if he's pressured he may just move way out into the middle of the cat tails if the wind allows him to feel safe with no transition line in sight.

Having said all that the buck bed will always relate to a transition line via an escape route or a trail that leads to the bed. Hope that makes sense.


It certainly does. Everything I have around here are big woods. Very little fields, no cattails, or other big open areas. Instead this area is made up of a lot of planted pines and rolling hardwoods.....thousands upon thousands of acres of it! I have started figuring out how they bed in most of the areas I am hunting, but the sections of very small planted pines has me scratching my head a bit. I am not sure yet how they are using these areas. I have focused much of my time so far on the transition lines in these areas and have been somewhat successful, but there is no doubt that I am missing a lot as well if they are willing to bed in the middle of that stuff. Finding a bed in some of those areas would be like finding a needle in a haystack.
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Re: Bedding Question

Unread postby Ragingun » Thu Oct 19, 2017 1:02 am

I've seen areas like that where I'm at too, lots of small pine trees planted densely together almost like a pine tree plantation. These trees offer little to no benefit to the deer in my experience other than some shelter from the wind when it's really cold. There's no food produced from them and typically no vegetation to browse on near them due to the tree density and the acidic soil conditions from the needles. They do travel through them but all of the tracks I've followed have never lead to a bed in them. They could bed in them when they find it necessary but from my experience for my area particularly if there is no near by food source they don't need to bed in those small pines and prefer other areas. That may not be the case near you. I've walked pines like that many times and have not seen bedding in them, not even a doe bed. There are other areas like cedars, low land areas, and back sides of small ridges they much prefer.

It could simply be that the pines in my area are simply planted where the deer don't find them advantageous, not sure.
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