Tree my dog

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Killtree
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Tree my dog

Unread postby Killtree » Wed Oct 11, 2017 1:15 pm

I used to be a hard core coon hunter and after many years of following hounds it has left me questioning some of the ideas we have on scent conditions when it comes to deer hunting.

#1) I see a lot of people wanting to scout or move a stand during or right before a rain with the idea that rain will wash your scent away.
I can tell you that the dogs can run a coon better on a rainy night than they can a dry night because the scent sticks to everything. I have seen some hounds with the ability to swim down the middle of a creek following the scent floating on top of the water.
The worst scenting conditions for the dogs is when its middle of the summer and the soil is dry as powder. Scent evaporates fast when its dry.

#2) Anybody that's ever coonhunted much can tell you that all hounds are gonna slick tree on a persimmon once in a while.
That's because a coon goes up a persimmon and sets there eating the fruit for a long time. The longer the coon sets there the more scent pools around the tree thus convincing the dog that the coon has to be there when he is not.
Sometimes I think all the scent we leave pooled around a tree does more damage than where we walked in and out.

Any thoughts?


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Boogieman1
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Re: Tree my dog

Unread postby Boogieman1 » Wed Oct 11, 2017 1:25 pm

Never coon hunted, but I have seen deer cut the corners of ponds many times while stray dogs chased them and the dogs would lose the track. My own perception is a misty rain holds scent to the ground, that's my favorite rut mornings when those bucks are bird dogging parallel trails with there nose to the ground. I think a down pour washes away the hunters sins or atleast dilutes it enough where they disregard it. Just my opinion no facts on the matter.
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Re: Tree my dog

Unread postby BA-IV » Wed Oct 11, 2017 1:30 pm

I hog hunt and coon hunt with dogs and it will amaze you and at the same leave you scratching your head on what a dog can smell or can't smell. Right after a rain is great track hunting weather, and pine straw is absolutely the worst when it comes to holding any kind of scent. But I think you might be on to something, I've thought about it a lot myself actually.
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Re: Tree my dog

Unread postby Dthree » Wed Oct 11, 2017 5:18 pm

I haven't coon hunted but have owned and hunted bear, hogs and deer with dogs.

I grew up doing it but not really into deer hunting with dogs but they use fox walkers, they are faster than treeing stock dogs and usually not cold nosed like bear dogs. Deer dogs always run better after a light rain or when there's dew on the ground. Same thing when there's frost on the ground. But if it starts raining steady they can't keep a track going a lot of times

IMO, a little moisture holds or preserves the scent but a lot of rain dilutes/washes away the scent.
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Re: Tree my dog

Unread postby mainebowhunter » Wed Oct 11, 2017 8:35 pm

I have a message out right now to the dog tracker who recovered my deer. She is a professional. ..spends a lot of time tracking deer bear and moose.

Curious to see what she says tracking after a night of pouring rain.
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Re: Tree my dog

Unread postby Motivated » Wed Oct 11, 2017 10:06 pm

Killtree, I am not experienced with running dogs but your premise is logical. I wonder if all day sits burn an area faster, or if the threshold for scent pooling is much lower, like one hour. I'm sure conditions will vary.

I do not want to hijack, so hopefully this is not. Hunting implications based on the comment below--

BA-IV wrote:I hog hunt and coon hunt with dogs and it will amaze you and at the same leave you scratching your head on what a dog can smell or can't smell. Right after a rain is great track hunting weather, and pine straw is absolutely the worst when it comes to holding any kind of scent.But I think you might be on to something, I've thought about it a lot myself actually.


Have other who run dogs finding this to be true, and if so, will this spot burn out more slowly if I hunt here?

This second idea stemmed from this thread. May be slightly off topic but I'll leave it here. I am also wondering if certain trees get rubbed based more on the quality of their sap leaking out and preserving a bucks sent on the rub. For example a tree that has thick sap that dries quickly may not preserve a bucks forehead gland sent as long. So that tree might not be preferred for rubbing. Where as a tree with watery sap that slowly runs for days may preserve a buck's individual sent for a longer duration and be a more preferred rubbing tree. Like a scent drip. Just a hypothesis.

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Re: Tree my dog

Unread postby BA-IV » Wed Oct 11, 2017 10:12 pm

mainebowhunter wrote:I have a message out right now to the dog tracker who recovered my deer. She is a professional. ..spends a lot of time tracking deer bear and moose.

Curious to see what she says tracking after a night of pouring rain.


From the way I understand when it comes to blood dogs is they have an actual substance to smell. Blood is a substance and somewhat solid when dried no matter how much or how little, and it holds scent way differently then a hunting dog uses. I know of blood dogs following tracks up to 48hrs and sometimes longer depending on the conditions, and you will absolutely not do that with a hog or deer track in any conditions. In the hog hunting business, if you can put a dog on a track at noon and that hog walked sometime the night before, then you've got yourself a pretty good hand on cold trailing. Conditions play a huge part as well as well, our humidity in LA kills scent faster then anything, where as a track up in the dry country, a hound can locate on 2-3 days old.
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Re: Tree my dog

Unread postby mainebowhunter » Wed Oct 11, 2017 10:19 pm

BA-IV wrote:
mainebowhunter wrote:I have a message out right now to the dog tracker who recovered my deer. She is a professional. ..spends a lot of time tracking deer bear and moose.

Curious to see what she says tracking after a night of pouring rain.


From the way I understand when it comes to blood dogs is they have an actual substance to smell. Blood is a substance and somewhat solid when dried no matter how much or how little, and it holds scent way differently then a hunting dog uses. I know of blood dogs following tracks up to 48hrs and sometimes longer depending on the conditions, and you will absolutely not do that with a hog or deer track in any conditions. In the hog hunting business, if you can put a dog on a track at noon and that hog walked sometime the night before, then you've got yourself a pretty good hand on cold trailing. Conditions play a huge part as well as well, our humidity in LA kills scent faster then anything, where as a track up in the dry country, a hound can locate on 2-3 days old.


Except, many times the dog is trailing the deer scent not the blood. Dogs track the blood trail rather quickly. At some point, when it stops, things tend to get a bit more serious. Dog will start back tracking to learn that specific deers scent.

2 fold question for me. One, if it is a confirmed gut shot only, its always best to leave overnight. However, if its pouring rain, does that diminish the chance of finding the deer or is it better to risk before the rain? Secondly, has to do more with the topic at hand. This is a thread topic I started on here a few months ago about checking trail cams after or during a pouring rain. Is there really any science to back up the claims that rain does indeed wash away scent.
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Re: Tree my dog

Unread postby brancher147 » Wed Oct 11, 2017 10:57 pm

Scent is definitely held longer when moisture is added. That is a fact. Now, that being said, I went out Saturday and hung 2 stands in the light rain, knowing that we had over an inch of rain coming overnight. I think over an inch of rain overnight will wash away most scent.

The next best day to hang a stand would be hot and dry with low humidity as far as scent is concerned, it may be noisier walking, but you won't leave much ground scent. I have hunted with dogs, and the ability to pick up a track after a light rain, or dew is superior to picking up the same track in dry leaves.

My scent does not "pool" around a tree because there are always very active thermals or wind in the mountains I hunt taking my scent away.
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Re: Tree my dog

Unread postby BA-IV » Thu Oct 12, 2017 12:06 am

mainebowhunter wrote:
BA-IV wrote:
mainebowhunter wrote:I have a message out right now to the dog tracker who recovered my deer. She is a professional. ..spends a lot of time tracking deer bear and moose.

Curious to see what she says tracking after a night of pouring rain.


From the way I understand when it comes to blood dogs is they have an actual substance to smell. Blood is a substance and somewhat solid when dried no matter how much or how little, and it holds scent way differently then a hunting dog uses. I know of blood dogs following tracks up to 48hrs and sometimes longer depending on the conditions, and you will absolutely not do that with a hog or deer track in any conditions. In the hog hunting business, if you can put a dog on a track at noon and that hog walked sometime the night before, then you've got yourself a pretty good hand on cold trailing. Conditions play a huge part as well as well, our humidity in LA kills scent faster then anything, where as a track up in the dry country, a hound can locate on 2-3 days old.


Except, many times the dog is trailing the deer scent not the blood. Dogs track the blood trail rather quickly. At some point, when it stops, things tend to get a bit more serious. Dog will start back tracking to learn that specific deers scent.

2 fold question for me. One, if it is a confirmed gut shot only, its always best to leave overnight. However, if its pouring rain, does that diminish the chance of finding the deer or is it better to risk before the rain? Secondly, has to do more with the topic at hand. This is a thread topic I started on here a few months ago about checking trail cams after or during a pouring rain. Is there really any science to back up the claims that rain does indeed wash away scent.


Hard for me to buy right here, when I've seen blood dogs trained time and time again off light light blood trails. No deer scent involved. Now whether they cut and slashed until they picked up the blood scent I don't know, and they may in fact use the deer scent to keep on the right trail, but I don't believe that after 24 hours, a dog will smell any deer scent left on the ground, blood is a substance and I can believe that. Deer have an interdigital gland around their feet, hog's don't, dogs track off skin particles, mud, and water dripping off them.
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Re: Tree my dog

Unread postby Grasshopper » Thu Oct 12, 2017 12:58 am

Could the fact that rain is washing older less fresh scent trails away, leaving less room for confusion play into why a dog can follow a trail better in mildly wet conditions? I imagine after a few dry days the ground is littered with a network of trails going all directions, as they are diluted away only the fresh remains.
This contradicts the above theory, I'm thinking out loud.
The reason a deer licks its nose is to get moisture in with the air it's taking in. Wet air is believed to carry scent better. I guess there has to be a point where too wet happens, and ground scent molecules are redispersed to the point of not being trailable.
I'd ask my dog, but I'm sure he would just tilt his head and perk his ears up like I'm crazy.
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Re: Tree my dog

Unread postby BA-IV » Thu Oct 12, 2017 1:24 am

Grasshopper wrote:Could the fact that rain is washing older less fresh scent trails away, leaving less room for confusion play into why a dog can follow a trail better in mildly wet conditions? I imagine after a few dry days the ground is littered with a network of trails going all directions, as they are diluted away only the fresh remains.
This contradicts the above theory, I'm thinking out loud.
The reason a deer licks its nose is to get moisture in with the air it's taking in. Wet air is believed to carry scent better. I guess there has to be a point where too wet happens, and ground scent molecules are redispersed to the point of not being trailable.
I'd ask my dog, but I'm sure he would just tilt his head and perk his ears up like I'm crazy.


Here's my experience with this...dogs are like humans, each have their own personality and I'm sure deer are the exact same way. If a coon dog fell off of a particular coon track on every fresher track he came across, then he would never tree, just like a buck always walks into the wind, it's just not feasible. Same with hog dogs and deer dogs, boar hogs and buck deer when ran by dogs are notorious for running dogs through every bedding area with does/fawns and sows and piglets, and SOME dogs fall off and bay these, while a few dogs completely ignore all this and stay on track and end up baying the big ol boar or buck they started in the beginning. Now when I think of deer, I see the big ol lone does always looking for boogers and the big mature bucks on the far end of the spectrum with their noses which are better then dogs. Some will tolerate scent, some won't, but I think rain tends to dissipate it and make it less strong, kind of like smelling a skunk today and it overpowering your senses, to smelling it a week from now and you don't know where it's at, but you still get a faint whiff. Some deer tolerate that faint whiff, and some simply don't, I attribute that to individual personalities but more so to the amount of near death experiences a particular animal has had.
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Re: Tree my dog

Unread postby mainebowhunter » Thu Oct 12, 2017 4:02 am

BA-IV wrote:
mainebowhunter wrote:
BA-IV wrote:
mainebowhunter wrote:I have a message out right now to the dog tracker who recovered my deer. She is a professional. ..spends a lot of time tracking deer bear and moose.

Curious to see what she says tracking after a night of pouring rain.


From the way I understand when it comes to blood dogs is they have an actual substance to smell. Blood is a substance and somewhat solid when dried no matter how much or how little, and it holds scent way differently then a hunting dog uses. I know of blood dogs following tracks up to 48hrs and sometimes longer depending on the conditions, and you will absolutely not do that with a hog or deer track in any conditions. In the hog hunting business, if you can put a dog on a track at noon and that hog walked sometime the night before, then you've got yourself a pretty good hand on cold trailing. Conditions play a huge part as well as well, our humidity in LA kills scent faster then anything, where as a track up in the dry country, a hound can locate on 2-3 days old.


Except, many times the dog is trailing the deer scent not the blood. Dogs track the blood trail rather quickly. At some point, when it stops, things tend to get a bit more serious. Dog will start back tracking to learn that specific deers scent.

2 fold question for me. One, if it is a confirmed gut shot only, its always best to leave overnight. However, if its pouring rain, does that diminish the chance of finding the deer or is it better to risk before the rain? Secondly, has to do more with the topic at hand. This is a thread topic I started on here a few months ago about checking trail cams after or during a pouring rain. Is there really any science to back up the claims that rain does indeed wash away scent.


Hard for me to buy right here, when I've seen blood dogs trained time and time again off light light blood trails. No deer scent involved. Now whether they cut and slashed until they picked up the blood scent I don't know, and they may in fact use the deer scent to keep on the right trail, but I don't believe that after 24 hours, a dog will smell any deer scent left on the ground, blood is a substance and I can believe that. Deer have an interdigital gland around their feet, hog's don't, dogs track off skin particles, mud, and water dripping off them.


Maybe the dog trails to the blood? Once there is no blood, follows animal track until the blood is picked up again? I have watched 2 dogs work now were there was absolutely no blood for stretches. 0 that could be seen with the naked eye. Once the blood ran out, the dog definitely slowed up. But never stopped.

I am just really curious because I am really trying to understand whether or not getting soaking wet in the rain scouting, hanging sets or checking cameras really is a "freebie".
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Re: Tree my dog

Unread postby Killtree » Thu Oct 12, 2017 6:45 am

http://www.missingpetpartnership.org/lo ... t-survive/


I have always felt less threatened by hitting your trail where you pass through an area than they do when they hit a spot where your scent has pooled.
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Re: Tree my dog

Unread postby mauser06 » Thu Oct 12, 2017 9:02 am

I still am a coon hunter and your right on IMO. Extremely dry seems to be the toughest track. Another time of year is about a week in the fall when there is a heavy leaf drop. It seems to vary year to year and spot to spot...but there's times I have little doubt that screws up a dog.

Wet magnifies odor...that's all there is to it. Only exception being a prolonged downpour. I think if we walk through and hung and if pours for a long while...your scent is gone.



Scent pooling is HUGE IMO. A few things I've observed in the deer woods...

A all day sit. Wind shifts hard at some point in the day. Deer come in and get down wind of the original wind and blow.. meanwhile a strong wind the opposite direction is very evident.

Another...all day sit...deer cross your trail you walked in on 8 hours prior and you are sweating bullets...they never flinch. Why? Ground conditions were in your favor and the scent dissipated.

Sometimes ground scent last longer than other times.

Right now is a prime example. I walked in during the end of a rain. Anything coming near my trail I expect 100% to bust.. probably for a few days.


Scent is largely overlooked when running cameras and is the cause of failure a lot of times IMO. Same as over hunting a spot...you might not see deer. You might not have gotten busted while you were there...but most times they are going to figure out you were there.


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