Rage...

[evangorp]

Read an article a couple nights ago regarding arrow weight in regards to bow poundage. One general rule of thumb is at 60lbs you should have 8 grains of arrow weight per pound so in your case you would want the arrow to weigh 480 grains. I would check this as well and see how close you are to this number.

The article also said at 70lbs that weight can drop down to 6 grains per pound.

Only reason I bring this up is because I was looking at switching from FMJs to the Carbon express Reds, I currently shoot at 63lbs, but would have to increase my poundage to 70 to be able to maintain the same KE. Now in both cases my KE is 95lbs, but I love the fact they hit like a Mack truck. I’ve used Slock Tricks and expandables, and for me the slick tricks just flat out work better!

[Razorhead]

I agree with many of the above posts. This is probably much more of a shot placement issue than a broadhead issue. Any shot into the shoulder knuckle of a deer is a shot that will more than likely have very limited penetration. Neither fixed blades or mechanicals will perform very well on this shot. I shot Bear 145 grain Super Razorheads for decades and have experienced the exact situation that you have just described. Fixed blades will generally produce a bit better penetration and potential for pass through shots however, than mechanicals do in my opinion, but hitting solid bone is a game changer for any broadhead. Given your situation, I would continue to try to find your arrow or part of your arrow along the departure path of the deer. It or part of it is probably out there somewhere. Finding it may shed some light on the whole situation for you as you try to take something away from your experience and learn something from it. Bowhunting is a game of inches. Keep your head up and chalk it up to experience.

[Nelson87]

28” draw with 60lbs limbs maxed out moving my hunting set up at 278fps. Arrows are goldtip hunter xt 340s 28 1/2”. Tip was rage 100grn 2 blade chisel tip. At impact sounded like the thud of a body shot not the crack of bone. Hi impact steep angle. He also had to run off through a lot of blow downs and thick cover if it was a lack of penitration wouldn’t the brush have pulled the arrow out or broken it easier? Just trying to learn all I can from this so it doesn’t happen again. Thoughts on switching to my fixed blades is just to get more penitration.

I just did this very thing for the same reason. I was 5 for 5 with rage, but decided I wanted a heavier arrow with a higher foc and a fixed head.

You didn't mention a heavier insert, so I assume you're using the standard ones. Take this for what it's worth because I'm no expert, but imo you would benefit from a higher foc no matter what broadhead you shoot. Ecspecially since you mentioned using a lighted nock, which adds weight to the back of your arrow.

[<DK>]

Sorry to hear that... I hope you find your deer! Stay positive it happens. The no blood is still very surprising. I agree w others on trying for a dog. Iv never had that for tracking so pull up a map and check all the transitions, creeks, draws in the direction he ran. Take binos and a friend w you, scope the ridge sides. Try to catch his tracks.

We all have to live and learn. Regardless of the shot or this broadhead v that broadhead or any of our opinions... You have to do what makes you confident moving forward. If you decide to make a change then start w basics, paper tune before slapping a new head on it. There is a few good discussions on here about fixed v mechanical if you want lots of opinions.

Good luck. Tuning in

[mauser06]

From the original post it sounds as if it entered in FRONT of the shoulder.


I did it last year. I still can't explain what happened or how I made such a horrible shot. He was fired up and working a scrape. Only thing I can figure is as I released, he moved to paw..I was maybe 8-10ft high and I think it was a 10-12yd shot. I'm shooting more of an arrow but was shooting a 1 1/4" 4 blade. I have little doubt I buried it in the far shoulder.

Long story short...he survived. Had a pic of him about a month later. Scar visible but appeared healthy.


I had follow-able blood for something like 500yds. I snuck out and came back a couple hours later knowing it was either lethal or a mess. At some points I swore it was spurting and coming from his nose/mouth.

Lost the track and me and 2 buddies gridded a large area...walking..talking. My buddy had a light in his truck and lit up the field..I thought it was a dumb idea..but literally within 50yds of where we left was a bedded deer...they had to work so I came back with a good light and binocs. It was him...head bobbing side to side. Figured dead deer come morning.

Morning came and he wasn't there. I thought for sure someone found him and took him. Hours later I found where he crashed through a wooden fence and brush. Found a bloody bed 10yds from that. 50yds from that another bloody bed. Fresh blood. Another 200yds and no more blood and never could catch up with him.

Found about 4" of the fletching end of my shaft a week or 2 later about 30yds from where I shot him. Don't know how I missed it that night tracking.


He had the wit to make a big circle and get down wind before he ever bedded or stopped. That was the first time I ever witnessed that.

I'd estimate I got a good foot or so of penetration. Looked like near half a 28" arrow was in him.


Took a while to get a pic of him...but I was glad I did. Maybe he will come back by this season.

I've gone to a single bevel 2 blade head now...with my arrow setup and energy I will really be surprised if a deer can stop it..


Not familiar with your arrows...but 60lbs and your draw length and speed your getting I'd guess it's a fairly light arrow...I'd goto a fixed 2 blade head...if you wanna stay with mechanicals look at the low KE ones. I think Rage makes them..2 blade with reduced cutting diameter. Those bigger ones take a lot of energy to punch through. The increased cut also can also catch more bone..think about it hitting ribs horizontally...you're hitting more than you would with a 1 1/8" head.


Exhaust all efforts. He could be dead. Like was said, he could be bleeding internally...

[Ack]

An entry in front of the shoulder usually will not end up well.....especially with a Rage chisel tip. Never did get good penetration with those compared to the originals.

[bowfreak8]

I shoot rage and love them but you definitely want to stay off the shoulder. They put such big holes the animal that it's not worth trying to tuck it in real tight to that shoulder. Middle of the body will kill do just fine.

[JAK]

I've shot rage for as long as I can remember but also shoot 70 # with fmj and only had 1 deer I didn't pass through and only because I hit opposite elbow.. I think it's all personal I've got buddies who lost a few and blamed the rage up and down but switched to fixed and lost a some with that as well.. So it's really down to shot placement..

[mipubbucks24]

Shot a buck in the shoulder 2012, was only 2-3 inches forward, he made a loud growl and ran off. Thankfully we found him, but I missed all vitals. My arrow deflected forward the only reason he died is the arrow sliced his jugular, and he drowned on his own blood. I thought I hit lung when I got up to him because he was bleeding out of his mouth, but upon gutting the arrow had totally missed the lungs. I was using grim reapers and they did not open. Needless to say was the last time I used Grim reapers, I went back to montecs.

[Rutnstrut]

I was always a fixed blade fanatic. But I tried exp's in 2006 just to prove to some of my buddies that they aren't bad IF. You shoot a tuned bow. It doesn't matter what BH you use, if your arrow isn't impacting straight. Penetration will be reduced. You also need to be realistic about your arrow weight/draw weight. Shooting a large cut BH out of a low poundage bow with a light sub 400 grain arrow is asking for trouble. Last but not least, shot placement. Put any head into heavy bone and you will have problems. I still shoot exps along with fixed heads with excellent results. I have shot deer from small does to 250 lb mature bucks with Rage, and NAP mechanicals.

[Jeff G]

Ever try a hybrid? Best of both worlds? I've been reading up lately on muzzy hb

[Whitetailaddict]

It bent the furrell about 20 degrees on a wasp jackhammer . A rage doesn't fair well on a shoulder hit. Do yourself a favor and find a nice strong steel furelled compact head that with penetrate deep. Like a wasp , slick trick ,exodus, muzzy or a VPA and gear up for the worst case scenario not for the best. On a shoulder penetration is everything on a game of inches shot like that. Just my 2 cents from a hard learned lesson. On the broad head and the track.

I agree with this. If you got 8" of penetration through the shoulder i would not be surprised if your blades broke off in the near shoulder and only the ferrule made it to the other side. By all means continue the search to prove otherwise but that would be my guess. That's a downfall of a big mechanical with thinner blades. Hope you find him.

[<DK>]

Ever try a hybrid? Best of both worlds? I've been reading up lately on muzzy hb

Check out dirt naps hybrid too. I haven't tried it yet but they look nasty.

[Mathewshooter]

Ever try a hybrid? Best of both worlds? I've been reading up lately on muzzy hb

Steelforce Phathead SOB is a good hybrid head. I killed a 10 point with one last year. Only got one lung but the head did its job. Found him dead the next morning about 250 yards from where I shot him

[Dave.Bechtel]

I'm really sorry to hear about your situation. I had something similar happen to me two years ago on a nice buck. I was shooting 3-blade rage tips and hit him right in the shoulder. The shot made the loudest crack ever, it sounded like two wood blocks smashing into one another. I ended up finding a little blood but then it just stopped. I searched for days and drove around looking for birds. The buck ended up getting shot 5 weeks later chasing after a doe. Chances are that you caught the shoulder and the deer will live. As far as the tips, shoot whatever your most confident with. People kill deer with recurves and wooden arrows. It all depends on shot placement. I learned my lesson on shoulder shots and now I won't go anywhere near it. Shoot what your confident with!! I hope you the best and and good luck.