Drawing your own conclusion

[DaveT1963]

Great post Lockdown. I agree with you.

Yes public knowledge definitely helps with shortening the learning curve, but it can also create a false sense of ability/expectation...... Nothing replaces time spent observing and learning. In fact, in my experience, it is when the person takes the knowledge out in the field and applies and learns from it that they take their biggest step. I'd say you are their bud and that you will have one of your best seasons this year.

Here's to an awesome 2017 season and may the in field learning never stop.

[elk yinzer]

This is a pretty awesome thread with some good observations.

I think a lot of emphasis should be placed on stepping outside your comfort zone. What is ironic about the information age is that people are actually more secluded and isolated than ever in significant ways. Folks just live in comfortable little facebook cocoons and don't interact [in real life] with anyone different. Don't try a restaurant if it doesn't have enough good yelp reviews. Don't travel somewhere without directions and cell phone gps/communication. Don't feel comfortable trying outside-the-box hunting methods or traveling out of state to some random public. And in my short time here I have noticed so many of the people in this community are different in that regard, which I love about the place.

By and large people don't dive balls-deep into things and figure them out anymore. I myself am guilty of this from time to time. Go get lost, drop all the tech gadgets and just wander the woods once in awhile. Drive back roads without a GPS. Stop in random little bars and restaurants and talk to people. They say it takes 10,000 hours to master something. I'll take the guy who has spent 10,000 hours in the woods, over the guy who spent 10,000 hours on the internet any day of the week. Now the guy who spent 9,500 hours in the woods and 500 hours on the internet--that may be optimal. There are some benefits to technology.

Personally, my growth as a hunter didn't accelerate until I had to move away from home for college. Whole new terrain, totally different type of deer behavior in the ridge and valley Appalachians. It took a few years and there were some incredibly dumb sits in the meantime, but I was able to pretty well figure things out on my own. My dad and grandpap built a solid foundation, don't get me wrong, but there are definitely some flaws in the way I was taught to hunt. All I knew at home was the deer eat out in this cornfield and oak flat and bed down in these thickets. We shoot them in between in the same trees every year, no sophistication. Having struck out on my own and figured things out gave me great confidence I can master any hunting terrain for just about any animal.

[Bowhunter4life]

Great post Lockdown. I think you are right when you talk about reading this stuff. Guys will sit and read all this and go through old post picking up on thing. It's all well and good but if you don't get out there and try it you will never fully understand it.

I've gained so much from the beast but I've still had to get out there and tweak some things to work for me in my situation. When getting started I would find the beds hunt them and nothing show. I got real aggressive the following season by going in and bumping deer right before season cause I wanted to know for sure! That is often looked at by most to be way too aggressive. I went in and busted up several bedding areas. Some held bucks and others didn't. Funny thing about it and I've done this on a couple different occasions I bumped a bed or a buck from a bed and then kill him just days later out of the exact bed. Of course that isn't always gonna work but it has paid off big for me in the past.

I think the title to the thread pretty much says it all, get on here and read. It will definitely cut down many many years of learning. So many great hunters on here and you can truely learn how and what a big whitetail does to avoid hunters. At the end of it all tho you have to get out there and make mistakes and see what works for you in your environment. No matter what, we all have different situations and we all are wired differently, some of us can sit in the stand all day and others do good to sit for a few hours. You have to get out there and see what works for you. Make the mistakes, get aggressive and see why you can and can't get away with. I always tend to lean toward the more aggressive side of it but others do very well sitting back and using observation on deer to kill them. Again it's all about your situation. Here where I hunt it is almost impossible to sit back and observe. Just can't see far enough to really put that tactic to use in most situations. I see too many factors in deer hunting to say this is how to kill deer no matter where you hunt. The one thing I will say is I believe bedding is the number one key but not all bedding is the same. Dive in and get dirty, see what works and what doesn't. You will learn so much by doing so!

[Lockdown]

Great post.

I think the other FL guys can attest that our swamps are greatly varied terrain and although the principles stay true how they need to be applied isn't equal across the board and I think that holds true across the country.

I was having a conversation with a non beast hunter the other day because he travels a lot of different states and I wanted to pick his brain tactically. But he was telling me he can't hunt tenn the same way he hunts colorado even though he considers them both hill country where he hunts.

Did he go into detail at all?

[Lockdown]

Great post Lockdown. I think you are right when you talk about reading this stuff. Guys will sit and read all this and go through old post picking up on thing. It's all well and good but if you don't get out there and try it you will never fully understand it.

I've gained so much from the beast but I've still had to get out there and tweak some things to work for me in my situation. When getting started I would find the beds hunt them and nothing show. I got real aggressive the following season by going in and bumping deer right before season cause I wanted to know for sure! That is often looked at by most to be way too aggressive. I went in and busted up several bedding areas. Some held bucks and others didn't. Funny thing about it and I've done this on a couple different occasions I bumped a bed or a buck from a bed and then kill him just days later out of the exact bed. Of course that isn't always gonna work but it has paid off big for me in the past.

I think the title to the thread pretty much says it all, get on here and read. It will definitely cut down many many years of learning. So many great hunters on here and you can truely learn how and what a big whitetail does to avoid hunters. At the end of it all tho you have to get out there and make mistakes and see what works for you in your environment. No matter what, we all have different situations and we all are wired differently, some of us can sit in the stand all day and others do good to sit for a few hours. You have to get out there and see what works for you. Make the mistakes, get aggressive and see why you can and can't get away with. I always tend to lean toward the more aggressive side of it but others do very well sitting back and using observation on deer to kill them. Again it's all about your situation. Here where I hunt it is almost impossible to sit back and observe. Just can't see far enough to really put that tactic to use in most situations. I see too many factors in deer hunting to say this is how to kill deer no matter where you hunt. The one thing I will say is I believe bedding is the number one key but not all bedding is the same. Dive in and get dirty, see what works and what doesn't. You will learn so much by doing so!

Great post

I find it interesting that you've killed days after bumping a buck out of his bed. The bump and dump is another tactic that is out of my comfort zone. I forget if it was on the original marsh bucks or where I saw/read it, but I remember the comment "bump and never see him again" being made which is what I would expect around here. But then again I've never tried it so why am I assuming?

I might as well add the bump and dump (or in your case, bump and return in a few days and dump) to my list of things to figure out.

[Stanley]

This is a truly entertaining topic.

[MDSikajunkie]

This is a great post and a wealth of information!

AS IS THIS FORUM.......

That said the properties i hunt vary so differently from each other let alone from similar areas in another state.

So the tactics I have read on here I use as a guide to supplement my ALREADY solid foundation of animal behavior and local knowledge.

Nothing is Gospel........for example I found a down to the ground bed with hair in it late season last year and jumped a decent 2.5 year old buck from it this spring.

I sat there opening morning (here in MD) and a very old solitary mature doe without fawns came in after first light and laid down in it........

some things will just surprise you!

I will still hunt that spot.....I truly expect to see a buck there but???????

[mainebowhunter]

The longer I am a Beast member the more I realize how different hunting and deer behavior is across the country. Dan obviously has a method to his madness which he unselfishly shares with us. But that doesn't mean if you emulate his tactics in an exact fashion that you'll be hunting to your full potential. There isn't a "never" or "always" in deer hunting.

We often see guys saying "what should I do here?" and there likely isn't a one size fits all answer for everywhere in the country.

Dan isn't a big morning hunter early season, yet DaveT loves them. Whitetailassassin is big on observations, yet I'm not sure what to think. He's hunting very high pressure land and I'm not. His tactic obviously works well for him, however there are far fewer places where the deer he is hunting feel safe. I feel in that situation they are more likely to repeat their movement vs the farm country I hunt where there is little human intrusion in comparison. Yes predators like coyotes do factor in as well.

I have decided to go out on a limb and get aggressive with a few situations/tactics and decide for myself. Morning hunts, observation sits, and repeated sits are my main focus.

I made this decision last night after I jumped a nice buck in the exact location that I had walked just 5 days prior. I was covered in mosquito spray.

In 2014 Tyler and I jumped a wall hanger opening weekend in an overlooked roadside bedding type spot. Last nights buck (3.5+ yr old) was bedded within 30 yards of where the big boy was. It's a low spot in a CRP field about 125 yards off a very busy highway, and 500 yards from the parking lot. It is also one of the first places the pheasant hunters will walk. So I know it's early season only.

His bed was not well used AT ALL, but in 2014 it had definitely seen some use. I would not call what he was laying in security cover. It's very open. So what made that buck want to lay there 5 days after I left an ungodly strong scent trail right through there? Was it a fluke? Or did random human scent not bother him since it was just once? Would he react the same if that scent was deep in the swamp where my set is???

The "hunt it once" philosophy always seemed very extreme to me. Maybe I can get away with more. Dan has said his chances of killing are are about 1 in 3 after observing a buck leaving bedding. With the random bedding around this flat farm country are my odds of the buck repeating his actions the next day much lower? Would early season mornings around here be more fruitful than most areas due to pressure being low? I don't know, but I'm going to find out for myself, even if that means learning the hard way.

I've said it many times on the forum. If you don't know if you should do something or not, do it. That way you can learn and draw your own conclusion.

It's a very interesting topic. Your spot on with your assessment. We all do it. Deer behavior where I hunt varies drastically from the midwest. Mostly in regards to patterns. Lower deer densities. Lower pressure. Abundant cover.

The danger is throwing it all and saying it does not apply to me. Lots of guys in my neck of the woods discredit anything that happens in the midwest. You need to try on the shoes first and walk in them for a bit before you can make that call.

Humble enough to listen othes yet confident enough to make your own mind up.

[creepingdeth]

I have to keep it as simple as I can(overthink everything=confusion), try something new, fail ,and learn. I could never be a true Beast, I'm far too old, but I can listen to everything here and be a far better hunter by trying new ideas...far out.....great post

[Bowhunter4life]

Great post Lockdown. I think you are right when you talk about reading this stuff. Guys will sit and read all this and go through old post picking up on thing. It's all well and good but if you don't get out there and try it you will never fully understand it.

I've gained so much from the beast but I've still had to get out there and tweak some things to work for me in my situation. When getting started I would find the beds hunt them and nothing show. I got real aggressive the following season by going in and bumping deer right before season cause I wanted to know for sure! That is often looked at by most to be way too aggressive. I went in and busted up several bedding areas. Some held bucks and others didn't. Funny thing about it and I've done this on a couple different occasions I bumped a bed or a buck from a bed and then kill him just days later out of the exact bed. Of course that isn't always gonna work but it has paid off big for me in the past.

I think the title to the thread pretty much says it all, get on here and read. It will definitely cut down many many years of learning. So many great hunters on here and you can truely learn how and what a big whitetail does to avoid hunters. At the end of it all tho you have to get out there and make mistakes and see what works for you in your environment. No matter what, we all have different situations and we all are wired differently, some of us can sit in the stand all day and others do good to sit for a few hours. You have to get out there and see what works for you. Make the mistakes, get aggressive and see why you can and can't get away with. I always tend to lean toward the more aggressive side of it but others do very well sitting back and using observation on deer to kill them. Again it's all about your situation. Here where I hunt it is almost impossible to sit back and observe. Just can't see far enough to really put that tactic to use in most situations. I see too many factors in deer hunting to say this is how to kill deer no matter where you hunt. The one thing I will say is I believe bedding is the number one key but not all bedding is the same. Dive in and get dirty, see what works and what doesn't. You will learn so much by doing so!

Great post

I find it interesting that you've killed days after bumping a buck out of his bed. The bump and dump is another tactic that is out of my comfort zone. I forget if it was on the original marsh bucks or where I saw/read it, but I remember the comment "bump and never see him again" being made which is what I would expect around here. But then again I've never tried it so why am I assuming?

I might as well add the bump and dump (or in your case, bump and return in a few days and dump) to my list of things to figure out.

I have done more bumping then and never see them again than I have had success. Tho that is the case often, I do have two on the wall that I killed less than 10 days later after bumping them from that exact area. I think it is very situational tho. How are we to know unless we try as you said... I learn so much more by being aggressive than I do sitting back!

[oldrank]

Great post Lockdown. I dont think ive ever hunted 2 properties the same. Some are simular but there are always pieces of the puzzle to put together. The teachings one here can shorten the curve but we all still have to put the ball in the hoop. I'm still shooting bricks. My form is getting better.

[Tufrthnails]

Great post.

I think the other FL guys can attest that our swamps are greatly varied terrain and although the principles stay true how they need to be applied isn't equal across the board and I think that holds true across the country.

I was having a conversation with a non beast hunter the other day because he travels a lot of different states and I wanted to pick his brain tactically. But he was telling me he can't hunt tenn the same way he hunts colorado even though he considers them both hill country where he hunts.

Did he go into detail at all?

A little from what I gathered he does target beds sorta as in he wants to know where they are and figure out how to get between them and food or does if in rut. when I asked what was so different he said everything the foliage, the bedding locations, the temps the deer were active during. But that was really all he commented on it. It tried to ask him if he used the 1/3 method or if he had figured out if the thermal tunnels were in similar areas, but it was like I was talking greek so I just let it be.

[Arrowbender]

Amen Lockdown. Amen!
These Beast theories are edgy and so satisfying when successful.
But I truly pity the greenhorns that take it all as gospel. There is so, so much more to becoming a well rounded and confident killer.
Experience is key to this confidence. And some of the best experience comes from crashing and burning. Or at least near missing.

I too am planning on hunting more early season mornings tho year. The only reason I haven't recently is because of this forum. I might screw some things up - but I miss them.

I also will be trying to call in an early season buck using an Acorn Cruncher (also because of this forum).
I just don't think it's that far fetched.

Crash and burn. Or learn and burn. It's just perception eh?

[MikePerry]

Back in mid 80's when I started bow hunting pressured deer on public land I was afraid to try different tactics, I read all the experts articles and tried to apply them to my situation, it usually did not work, then I would get mad, I wanted that big buck so bad I blamed everyone for my lack of success but myself, it was other hunters messing me up, bad weather ect ect, thankfully it only took a couple years of that until I said to myself this is supposed to be fun, it's only a deer, I'm my worst enemy, then I started paying more attention to what was going on, I quit trying to use tactics that were never going to work in my area, i got more aggressive , I searched out as many properties as I could scout so if I messed up one buck I'd have another to hunt, it's all a big learning experience and worth every minute, learn from your mistakes and make the best of your situation, keep a positive attitude always, killing the mature bucks will follow

[Lockdown]

Bumping this one.

IMHO this is the PERFECT time to figure out what's going on in those bedding areas that keep you up at night.

When was this sign made?

Who is home?

Is this rut sign?!?

should I get aggressive? <--- YES

SHOULD I HUNT HERE AGAIN??

The all caps sentence is one that I'm really working on with my own situations. I've pressured one area pretty hard so far this year and the deer haven't left Not only haven't they left, they're there when the #1 food source in my area (standing corn) is close to a mile away. I'm in a low pressure area... shouldn't they be by the food? These deer and this bedding area are teaching me a lot. Hunting this bedding 3 times in 1 month is heavy pressure according to Beast tactics. But I'm going to go in with confidence.

I scouted this bedding my first year as a Beast and wrote it off because of the lack of buck sign, although I knew it could easily hold a good buck. We all watch Dan's DVD's and read his teachings and expect to see those WORN beds. BIG beds. Rubs in the beds. All this buck sign that says HUNT HERE. Its suppose to be telegraphed, right? What I've learned is to trust the MAP.

Use the map in conjunction with hot sign. Right now to me the hottest of hot sign is a fresh track or large poop. I don't see many rubs and scrapes. If the map says hunt here, and I have a big track or large turd then I'm all in. One or the other is all I need to see.


I talked to Seazofcheese today. Friday he shot a buck that he unfortunately didn't find. He searched for it and left scent all over grid searching on Saturday. Sunday the landowner called him and said a good buck was near his stand location. Monday he hunted it again and had a great encounter. That's not suppose to happen, right?

Either that shouldn't happen, or a good spot is exactly that. Which situation are YOU in?

Are you going to sit back and think about it? Or dig in and find out?

I can't wait to see what happens on my 3rd hunt.