Scent Control Podcast with Dan Infalt & John Eberhart

[Aaron1987]

We can argue about this till were blue in the face. Fact is we will never get everyone to agree. This discussion just goes round and round.

Sorry but time to break this out.

Not directed at anyone in particular.

[Edcyclopedia]

We can argue about this till were blue in the face. Fact is we will never get everyone to agree. This discussion just goes round and round.

Sorry but time to break this out.

Not directed at anyone in particular.

[Stanley]

The bottom line on the whole debate. If it works for you then use it. If you don't need it to be successful then don't use it. Is it easier to prove that you don't need it? Or is it easier to prove that you do need it? I'm very thankful that I don't need it to be successful. I kind of feel bad for those that do need it to be successful.

[Dewey]

I cant afford scent lok, and lets face it I'm to lazy and don't have the time for a proper scent free regimen. My hunting clothes and bow are in the back seat of my truck from sept til christmas. I work in a small engine shop. Usually I hit the woods smelling like 2 stroke exhaust. I don't have time to shower after work before a hunt.

This was the first year I hunted the wind. I saw more deer than I have in years. I will stick to that.

Someday when I have more income (hopefully), Maybe i will invest in more of a scent free approach, but for now this is working for me.

I honestly don't think there's any reason to spend money on it myself. If I wanted scent lok clothing I could certainly buy some, but I just don't see any need for it. If you are applying Beast tactics you need to know what the wind is doing anyways to determine where the deer are bedding, so use that to your advantage while hunting as well. I find a good deal of enjoyment in trying to figure out the wind/thermals and feel like i've become a better woodsman because of that.

My thoughts exactly.

At one time I was a big Scent Lok fan and spent a bunch of money on the stuff. I remember naively telling people how well it worked because I would have deer downwind and they showed no reaction. Looking back I knew very little about thermals and air currents. Those air currents had me falsely believing my Scent Lok was working. Reality is learning about air currents helped me WAY more than any expensive scent reduction clothing possibly could. When I ditched that stuff and started paying attention to the wind and air currents above anything is when I started killing bigger bucks. Truth is now I have more deer downwind of me than ever that show no reaction to my scent and I never use any scent reduction other than the wind. I know the Scent Lok guys don't want to believe that or can come up with other explanations but it's a fact.

Like I mentioned in an earlier post here this is a topic we we will never get everyone to agree on. It's like politics.....each side thinks they are right and the other side is wrong. Even if the other side makes a good case the other side will shoot it down. It's a no win situation. Getting mad at each other gets us nowhere.

[Josh_S]

I cant afford scent lok, and lets face it I'm to lazy and don't have the time for a proper scent free regimen. My hunting clothes and bow are in the back seat of my truck from sept til christmas. I work in a small engine shop. Usually I hit the woods smelling like 2 stroke exhaust. I don't have time to shower after work before a hunt.

This was the first year I hunted the wind. I saw more deer than I have in years. I will stick to that.

Someday when I have more income (hopefully), Maybe i will invest in more of a scent free approach, but for now this is working for me.

Save what you would have spent on scent control and continue to become a better hunter playing the wind. Instead buy a non-resident tag and knock another one down in another state

[RidgeGhost]

I'm late to the party on this one but I just listened to all 3 podcasts today at work. The thing that strikes me most about the debate is the difference in tactics regardless of scent control.

John didn't discuss specific tactics much but from what he did say, he is a destination hunter. I just find it so hard to believe that a guy hunting pressured public land is a destination hunter. That's the tactic that any entry level hunter is picking up from a TV show. Hunt the food or the scrape line or the hidden apple tree, whatever. If you do any of that on any of the public I hunt you had better like company. And VA is not pressured in relation to Michigan. Something doesn't add up. Obviously he has been very successful so maybe I need to investigate his tactics further before I continue to comment.

And personally, I have gone full bore down the scent control road in the past. I thought I was seeing results from it at one time. But results were relative. I wasn't getting busted by does, but I wasn't hunting risky winds either, and I wasn't killing bucks because of it. What led me to kill bucks was a change in tactics, not scent control.

Probably most of us on this site are a bit biased from what we have learned here. But, to me, it's more about getting yourself in the tree that buck is going to walk by.

[Rob loper]

We can argue about this till were blue in the face. Fact is we will never get everyone to agree. This discussion just goes round and round.

Sorry but time to break this out.

I agree totaly. Its beating a dead horse

Not directed at anyone in particular.

[BAS4109]

Here is what I have for this year from my log.

Wore SL every sit but the 1st sit. My SL is 4 seasons old and I only have the light version. So when it gets cold I wear it under warmer clothes and that is normally rifle season so I don't care as much. Probably not as effective and I sure a big no no for John E.

Keep in mind that NY has 2 zones so rifle is open in the Northern Zone while it is still bow season in the southern zone.

18 sits, 12 on the ground and 6 from a treestand. 68 deer seen, 18 buck sightings, most 1.5 years old, 3 that appeared to be 2.5 years old, and 2 the appeared to be 3.5. Shot a doe with the bow and a 3.5 year old 9 point with the rifle, both deer were upwind.

Very 1st sit was with no SL because I was in a blind with my 5 year old son. Had 3 bucks come by upwind 50 yards no issues. Had a doe come downwind at 20 yards, she spooked (winded) and went back.

3rd sit - on the ground, in a blind with the rifle. Had a doe come through upwind 50 yards no reaction, had a different doe feed for 20 minutes at 60 yards downwind no reaction, she fed off.

4th sit - In a tree with the bow. 2 doe upwind at 20 yards, killed one. Had a 2.5 year old buck upwind feeding at 60 yards. 2 doe downwind at 20 yards, no reaction, they fed away downwind.

5th sit - In a different spot in a tree with the bow. a bunch of bucks and doe upwind no issues. A 1.5 year old buck downwind at 15 yards no response, but he was full rut so I doubt it would matter. A 1.5 and 2.5 year old directly downwind at 20 yards at different times both bucks put their noses in the air and changed directions, neither of them blew out, they just kept going in a different direction.

7th sit - In a different spot in a tree with the bow. Bunch of doe and a small bucks upwind. 1 doe downwind at 60 yards, no reaction.

8th sit - on the ground, in a blind with the rifle. Had a 6 point pass at 20 yards downwind. Nose in the air for a few seconds and kept going the same direction at the same pace. SL underneath.

9th sit - on the ground, in a blind with the rifle. 3 doe and 2 spikes 40 yards, all slightly downwind, 1 spike went directly downwind, no reaction, they kept going the same direction. SL underneath.

10th sit- In a treestand with the rifle. Same spike from above, 40 yards downwind, Stopped and stood for a couple minutes and kept going. SL underneath.

13th sit - In a treesand with the rifle (Southern zone opening day). Had 6 does downwind multiple times at 40 - 60 yards, no response. SL underneath.

14th sit - On the ground still hunting with the rifle. Walked up on 3 doe, deer passed 30 yards downwind, no response. SL underneath rain clothes.

Last sit - On the ground, last day of muzzleloader. 2 does and fawns downwind at 50 yards. Deer winded me for sure and blew out. First deer all season that blew at me! SL underneath.

So I got totally busted 2 times, once without SL. 24 out of 68 deer went downwind, 9 deer showed some reaction, 5 of them blew out (4 in 1 group), the rest kept going.

When I first saw the number of deer (~1/3) that Dan had go downwind it seemed high for playing the wind. However after going through my log I actually have a slightly worse percentage of deer going downwind and I play the wind every sit too.

[ontario farmer]

We can argue about this till were blue in the face. Fact is we will never get everyone to agree. This discussion just goes round and round.

Sorry but time to break this out.

Not directed at anyone in particular.

Right on Dewey. Both are John and Dan are obviously both successful. I don't care who is right and I don't care for any personal attacks because someone thinks different. Both think scent is important... they agree. One plays the wind and one keeps the scent from leaving. Express an opinion and forget about it. I am not certain who is correct or if they both are. They are probably both right when their method is executed perfectly. The wind does not always cooperate in Dan's method and if scent lok is not used meticulously it will not work. John is fanatical and meticulous in his approach. I do not think most hunters are as meticulous as John so I don't think John's approach will work for many people. Such as Flingingairos who smells like oil and grease and leaves his stuff in the truck all year. Fliningairos is a great hunter. I doubt scent lok would work for Dan either. Done well I expect both approaches work.
As far as Dan's approach... I am still trying to comprehend it after one year. As a new hunter I am always trying to learn from everybody....John, Dewey, Dan, Fliningairos... whoever. This thread is becoming...like the teacher in Peanuts cartoons. wah, wah, wah, wah

[dan]

When I first saw the number of deer (~1/3) that Dan had go downwind it seemed high for playing the wind. However after going through my log I actually have a slightly worse percentage of deer going downwind and I play the wind every sit too.

In a lot of cases if you don't shoot them they eventually pass you and end up down wind.

Here is mine from my journal for those who have not seen it:

dan wrote:
I just went thru real quick and put some numbers together. There probably off slightly cause I was going fast and Im tired, but they should be close. I did not count deer pushed on drives. But counted those days as hunted.

66 days hunted this season out of 107 days available to hunt.

20 days hunted with no deer seen.

128 does seen from stand

68 bucks seen from stand

63 deer got down wind / of those 53 showed no reaction, 6 spooked,(spooked means left, snorted, or altered direction) and 4 more showed a slight reaction that was barely noticeable ( most commonly a sniff of the wind, but back to normal travel) Spooked includes distant snorts of unseen deer.

18 deer crossed my entrance trail. / of those 16 showed no reaction, 1 spooked, and one more sniffed then went about its business.

I documented, or can remember travel vs wind on 87 deer. 7 nose to wind / 30 tail to wind / 50 cross wind. -- Honestly, they came out of the bedding the same as always, but I set up for wind to tail or cross wind the most, so thats how I see most travel.

No scent control of any kind other than to play the wind. I even wore my work boots on several hunts. Most of my hunting clothes don't get washed all season, and jackets, coats, and boots never get washed.

[mnswamphunter]

When I first saw the number of deer (~1/3) that Dan had go downwind it seemed high for playing the wind. However after going through my log I actually have a slightly worse percentage of deer going downwind and I play the wind every sit too.

In a lot of cases if you don't shoot them they eventually pass you and end up down wind.

Here is mine from my journal for those who have not seen it:

dan wrote:
I just went thru real quick and put some numbers together. There probably off slightly cause I was going fast and Im tired, but they should be close. I did not count deer pushed on drives. But counted those days as hunted.

66 days hunted this season out of 107 days available to hunt.

20 days hunted with no deer seen.

128 does seen from stand

68 bucks seen from stand

63 deer got down wind / of those 53 showed no reaction, 6 spooked,(spooked means left, snorted, or altered direction) and 4 more showed a slight reaction that was barely noticeable ( most commonly a sniff of the wind, but back to normal travel) Spooked includes distant snorts of unseen deer.

18 deer crossed my entrance trail. / of those 16 showed no reaction, 1 spooked, and one more sniffed then went about its business.

I documented, or can remember travel vs wind on 87 deer. 7 nose to wind / 30 tail to wind / 50 cross wind. -- Honestly, they came out of the bedding the same as always, but I set up for wind to tail or cross wind the most, so thats how I see most travel.

No scent control of any kind other than to play the wind. I even wore my work boots on several hunts. Most of my hunting clothes don't get washed all season, and jackets, coats, and boots never get washed.

I highlighted in yellow what I though was interesting. 53 out of 63 deer that pasted down wind of you little to no reaction. That is 84% wow. I do not experience that when I hunt. My questions are:
1. What are you doing differnt then me to abtain those numbers? My first guess is that I am not high enough. I generally hunt out of preset ladder stands and box blinds.

[mnswamphunter]

When I first saw the number of deer (~1/3) that Dan had go downwind it seemed high for playing the wind. However after going through my log I actually have a slightly worse percentage of deer going downwind and I play the wind every sit too.

In a lot of cases if you don't shoot them they eventually pass you and end up down wind.

Here is mine from my journal for those who have not seen it:

dan wrote:
I just went thru real quick and put some numbers together. There probably off slightly cause I was going fast and Im tired, but they should be close. I did not count deer pushed on drives. But counted those days as hunted.

66 days hunted this season out of 107 days available to hunt.

20 days hunted with no deer seen.

128 does seen from stand

68 bucks seen from stand

63 deer got down wind / of those 53 showed no reaction, 6 spooked,(spooked means left, snorted, or altered direction) and 4 more showed a slight reaction that was barely noticeable ( most commonly a sniff of the wind, but back to normal travel) Spooked includes distant snorts of unseen deer.

18 deer crossed my entrance trail. / of those 16 showed no reaction, 1 spooked, and one more sniffed then went about its business.

I documented, or can remember travel vs wind on 87 deer. 7 nose to wind / 30 tail to wind / 50 cross wind. -- Honestly, they came out of the bedding the same as always, but I set up for wind to tail or cross wind the most, so thats how I see most travel.

No scent control of any kind other than to play the wind. I even wore my work boots on several hunts. Most of my hunting clothes don't get washed all season, and jackets, coats, and boots never get washed.

I highlighted in yellow what I though was interesting. 53 out of 63 deer that pasted down wind of you little to no reaction. That is 84% wow. I do not experience that when I hunt. My questions are:
1. What are you doing differnt then me to abtain those numbers? My first guess is that I am not high enough. I generally hunt out of preset ladder stands and box blinds.

2. My second question is even though they had no reaction do you think they still noticed you and adjusted there behavior for the next days?

[First Sit]

My guess is he probably fell in the marsh on the way in which covered up his human scent

Or maybe deer are secretly attracted to his scent I hunted with a guy that always chewed cherry flavored skoal and had deer come to scent check his tree on occaison. He actually shot a big 14pt on heavily hunted public under his stand that did just that and it even looked at him

[BAS4109]

I liked the part about the deer crossing your entrance.

I think I had 18 deer cross my entrance as well and none of them spooked or even stopped. But you saw 3 times as many deer and had the same amount cross your path. That tells me that you have some great entrances!

[dan]

When I first saw the number of deer (~1/3) that Dan had go downwind it seemed high for playing the wind. However after going through my log I actually have a slightly worse percentage of deer going downwind and I play the wind every sit too.

In a lot of cases if you don't shoot them they eventually pass you and end up down wind.

Here is mine from my journal for those who have not seen it:

dan wrote:
I just went thru real quick and put some numbers together. There probably off slightly cause I was going fast and Im tired, but they should be close. I did not count deer pushed on drives. But counted those days as hunted.

66 days hunted this season out of 107 days available to hunt.

20 days hunted with no deer seen.

128 does seen from stand

68 bucks seen from stand

63 deer got down wind / of those 53 showed no reaction, 6 spooked,(spooked means left, snorted, or altered direction) and 4 more showed a slight reaction that was barely noticeable ( most commonly a sniff of the wind, but back to normal travel) Spooked includes distant snorts of unseen deer.

18 deer crossed my entrance trail. / of those 16 showed no reaction, 1 spooked, and one more sniffed then went about its business.

I documented, or can remember travel vs wind on 87 deer. 7 nose to wind / 30 tail to wind / 50 cross wind. -- Honestly, they came out of the bedding the same as always, but I set up for wind to tail or cross wind the most, so thats how I see most travel.

No scent control of any kind other than to play the wind. I even wore my work boots on several hunts. Most of my hunting clothes don't get washed all season, and jackets, coats, and boots never get washed.

I highlighted in yellow what I though was interesting. 53 out of 63 deer that pasted down wind of you little to no reaction. That is 84% wow. I do not experience that when I hunt. My questions are:
1. What are you doing differnt then me to abtain those numbers? My first guess is that I am not high enough. I generally hunt out of preset ladder stands and box blinds.

Its probably "where" your hunting. Reactions seem to vary property to property. It may be based on non-negitive human reactions, or pressure, but I would be speculating. You keep a journal? It would be interesting to see if your speculating. Cause, I thought my numbers were slightly worse until I went thru the journal and added them up. We seem to remember all the negative reactions but forget about the positive ones.