Scouting harder vs, Improving Habitat

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BackWoodsHunter
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Scouting harder vs, Improving Habitat

Unread postby BackWoodsHunter » Tue Jan 11, 2011 5:51 pm

Hey guys I am wondering where you draw the line between the effort you put in scouting and the effort you put into improving your own private grounds for hunting.

Grandpa, my main hunting partner, and I are buying a piece of the family farm to hang onto it while the rest is being sold off. Because of this we want to maximize its potential. I've spent numerous hours on QDMA forums and GrowingDeer.TV with biologist Grant Woods. With grandpa being at age 74 the chances of him hauling it down into a swamp and hunting mobile with me are slim to none. We do everything together so I'm sure he'd do it at least once but lets be honest that's not exactly nice to him or appealing. We have scraped out a few plots and have some open fields for planting and we plan too. We also have an order of 100 tree seedlings to plant this spring.

In reading on QDMA I really got to thinking. Those guys are very "hardcore" about their planting and land management stuff. Good for them but some guys are talking about spending thousands of dollars to fence in 5acre food plots other guys are trying to force deer through funnels. All I see is wasted money on an animal you are educating. Sure some deer will follow those funnels and work with you but the mature bucks will not, at least not in daylight or outside of the rut.

Seems to me that they could spend more time glassing/scouting/searching and have better results. Sure providing the deer with food and cover is a great thing to have but at what point do you draw the line?

I like to think I am somewhere in the middle of the road on this. At the end of spring we will have a couple hundred dollars tied up into land management projects. Food plots, tree plantings, the constructing and moving of a permanent stands for grandpa and my 79yr old uncle for gun season. Other than that I seem to think it more effective to invest my money in a good mobile set up, good maps, gas and a good pair of boots (or 2).

What are your views and what are your tactics? GIVEN THE RIGHT OPPORTUNITY do you plant and prepare to draw the deer to you or will you go to them? The main factor in the question I guess is whether or not one has access to private land and the ability to do with it as they please.


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magicman54494
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Re: Scouting harder vs, Improving Habitat

Unread postby magicman54494 » Tue Jan 11, 2011 6:18 pm

BackWoodsHunter wrote: Sure providing the deer with food and cover is a great thing to have but at what point do you draw the line?



I think your post answered your own question. You are doing the things you have time and money for and have done the research. I'm sure you will adapt as the seasons go by and as you see the results of your efforts. Good luck and keep us informed as to how you changes affected your hunts. That way we can learn from you!
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Re: Scouting harder vs, Improving Habitat

Unread postby BackWoodsHunter » Tue Jan 11, 2011 6:35 pm

magicman54494 wrote:
BackWoodsHunter wrote: Sure providing the deer with food and cover is a great thing to have but at what point do you draw the line?



I think your post answered your own question. You are doing the things you have time and money for and have done the research. I'm sure you will adapt as the seasons go by and as you see the results of your efforts. Good luck and keep us informed as to how you changes affected your hunts. That way we can learn from you!



Good Point and will do! I have an agreement with a guy in the business of selling tree cuttings for replanting I'll be documenting all or most of my projects in spring and following how they grow and succeed throughout the spring and summer into fall. In exchange for my documentation he is providing me with free samples. My post was intended to see what others do? I know where I stop spending money on the deer but wonder what everyone else's views are. Assuming everything goes through with the piece of land we are buying I will be keeping close tabs on all of our spring projects and providing feedback here on the Beast.
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Re: Scouting harder vs, Improving Habitat

Unread postby magicman54494 » Tue Jan 11, 2011 6:41 pm

One thing you could do is post topo and aerial of your land and changes you are concidering. That way others could give input. I'm a public land hunter so I'm not sure if my input would be of much value but others on this site develope their private lands and should have great insite.
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Re: Scouting harder vs, Improving Habitat

Unread postby BackWoodsHunter » Tue Jan 11, 2011 6:46 pm

That's a darn good plan I'll get after that right away tomorrow. I too enjoy the hunts on public land but for the time being I like spending time with old gramps and sadly it won't be forever but I'm making the most of it while we can. He's retired and I'm a college student living like a retired man...for now anyhow 8-)
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Re: Scouting harder vs, Improving Habitat

Unread postby magicman54494 » Tue Jan 11, 2011 7:09 pm

BackWoodsHunter wrote:for the time being I like spending time with old gramps and sadly it won't be forever but I'm making the most of it while we can.


Great plan! I miss my Grandpa.
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Re: Scouting harder vs, Improving Habitat

Unread postby Wrinkleneck » Tue Jan 11, 2011 11:31 pm

Sounds like you are doing your best with what you have to keep Gramps into the game kuddos to you!!! I don't spend alot of money on my land at one time, but keep spending a little money and time every year on the land to try and make it better deer habitat. This way scouting is still a bigger part of my game plan, but I like to think I'm helping my land also.
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Re: Scouting harder vs, Improving Habitat

Unread postby Black Squirrel » Tue Jan 11, 2011 11:58 pm

I don't own any land, so I don't spend alot of money on habitat improvement. I do put down minerals to inventory deer in summer, but thats about it. Backwoods I think you have a solid plan, and keeping gramps as part of it is awesome! I wish you well, with your piece of the farm.
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Re: Scouting harder vs, Improving Habitat

Unread postby Southern Man » Wed Jan 12, 2011 1:58 am

You didn't say how big this piece of ground is. Or if you did I missed it. If your property is small, you're not going to be able to do much as far as management goes, unless your neighbors feel as you do. That's not to say you can't do anything at all because you can. One of my properties is only 60 acres. There is no way I can control the deer herd but I can make my property more appealing for them than the neighboring farms. I remember a fishing show back in the late 70's. It was Bill Dance talking about fish attractors. He said don't scatter fish attractors all over the water, but find a good spot where fish normally hang out and make it better. You're better off enhancing what the deer naturally come to rather than trying to change natural order of things. On my 60 acre farm, I have sown clover in select areas, cut trees to thicken up areas, put out mineral stations, but the best thing I have done is regulate the hunting pressure. I hunt the perimeter of the farm 98% of the time. I have stands set on all travel corridors leading into and out of the farm. The center 15-20 acres, I never go into except to scout in the winter. From May thru November, I leave it for the deer. In the case I haven't killed come mid November, I do have 3 stands in select spots in that middle area I will hunt, but only as a last resort. This works well for me due to the way my farm is laid out.
There's alot of talk about buck:doe ratios, but you can't control that unless you have a huge amount of land. Don't concern yourself with it. Same with cull bucks. That's got to be the biggest deception of all. Again you can't control that without a huge amont of land. Besides, I like charector in deer horns :mrgreen:
The best things you can do are:
1) Make your property more appealing to the deer. Does are the key. Develope groups of older does.
2)Regulate the hunting pressure
3)Let the little guys walk.
4) Enjoy your hunting time with your grandfather. You only live once man, have fun.

Just my .02 worth. That's what's worked for me.....
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Re: Scouting harder vs, Improving Habitat

Unread postby BackWoodsHunter » Wed Jan 12, 2011 2:53 am

Thanks for all the input guys. It sure is a blast doing all this stuff with grandpa. He was there when I got my first bowkill a few years ago and he got his first bowkill ever this year and I was there for it. (I was even lucky enough to do the gutting, dragging and loading in the truck :lol: )

As far as land size we are only holding onto a 40, but we have permission to hunt an adjoining 40 and until the other 80acres sells that the family has up for sale we will be and can hunt that too.

As southern man said you can't make the deer be there but you can attract them. The neighbors own a 40 that borders ours and the deer bed down in a few low swampy spots there. We have the only plantable field for miles so I think a big food plot as well as some of the fruiting trees we have ordered to plant should really draw the deer in. WHere we are baiting is acceptable and grandpa has always put a little corn out and a trail cam to inventory the deer and it keeps all of the deer at least passing through our land. I think a large enough food plot could draw out even more critters. Don't have a ton of money to throw at projects but will use the extra money I have to help improve the habitat. For northern wi habitat we do seem to have a pretty good number of deer. I think we've killed 13 deer off the 160 total acres we have to hunt on in the last 5yrs. To me that seems like a lot for that small of an area but the numbers are still there. Shooting a lot of small bucks and ones with funky racks really puts a hurting on the number of "mature" bucks harvested though.
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Re: Scouting harder vs, Improving Habitat

Unread postby Hodag Hunter » Wed Jan 12, 2011 3:17 am

Good posts and ideas presented. Here's to you and your Gramps tagging big ones next year. 8-)
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Re: Scouting harder vs, Improving Habitat

Unread postby Black Squirrel » Wed Jan 12, 2011 3:20 am

Backwoods, great idea with the fruiting trees. Just make sure you protect them from rubbing and browsing. I'd recommend those tubes, also help them grow alot faster. If it's just a small number of trees, try to give them water at least for the fist year too.
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Re: Scouting harder vs, Improving Habitat

Unread postby Southern Man » Wed Jan 12, 2011 3:20 am

BackWoodsHunter wrote: The neighbors own a 40 that borders ours and the deer bed down in a few low swampy spots there .................... ............................... grandpa has always put a little corn out and a trail cam to inventory the deer and it keeps all of the deer at least passing through our land................................................... Shooting a lot of small bucks and ones with funky racks really puts a hurting on the number of "mature" bucks harvested though.


I have the same thing. The Bigger bucks bed in an old pine clearcut on the neighbors place for the most part. Trail cameras are the best for following movement across the property lines. You'd be suprised at how the buck quality will improve when you stop shootiin those little guys.
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Re: Scouting harder vs, Improving Habitat

Unread postby Mike » Wed Jan 12, 2011 4:40 am

Like you said, there are two ways to go after it. You can go after the deer or you can bring them to you. I like to do it both ways, using my land as the ace in the hole and going after deer on public and other peoples land.

Creating huntable funnels is the best way to up your odds on your property, especially for bowhunting (assuming the deer are there). Not saying you need to fence in a plot, that is questionable, but there is a big difference between seeing big bucks and killing them, and funneling can help that.

IMO people are waaay to sensitive about creating sanctuaries, you can work on your property a lot more than some would say. We work on ours as much as possible all the way through august and still have lots of big buck pics and sightings all summer, and into the fall. I get there every other week but I am in bedding areas and all over the place all summer long. We usually kill about 12 to 15 deer a year or so including a couple big bucks on 200 acres.

Once all the big projects are done, the eventual goal is to do a little housekeeping each year, plant plots and do no scouting. No scouting will be needed because I created how the deer use the property.

I am working on stuff for my dad as well, we are creating some spots close to the house so that as he gets less mobile he can still get out and shoot some deer. I think its a great idea to make some spots for gramps and your uncle.

The best part of it is seeing the deer do use what you created how you want them to. Having them bed where you want, seeing them there and then using the travel corridors you make is really cool. Its addictive, you will see :)

Also you don't need a huge piece if its the right piece. Having the best cover and food with low pressure is always good, but location can be huge as well. For example, I think I would rather have 20 acres in a metro/suburban area than 100 acres surrounded by similar land.
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Re: Scouting harder vs, Improving Habitat

Unread postby BackWoodsHunter » Wed Jan 12, 2011 5:49 am

Wow awesome responses guys thanks! I agree with ya Mike on the sanctuary stuff being bologna. I have found that in years where we are up there on a weekly basis working on projects, atving, watching deer in the summer etc the deer get used to us being there and don't mind. Kind of like in farm country where they see people all the time they just get used to it. Our biggest deer sightings then occur in the brushy corners of the property or areas that are a little less disturbed. Which is fine by me. Because as long as we keep feeding them and improving the property for them they don't seem to leave. I like the thoughts on funnels and am eager to try making some of them. I will post aerials/topos in the future but basically we have a network of trails on the outside edge of the property and leading into the main field we will plan I will be clearing thin trails just wide enough for silent walking. I will hunt mobile off of them as they will funnel deer and towards the end of gun season they will be great for a little still hunting.

The fruiting trees I am planting are wild plums. I don't have the funds for tree tubes unfortunately but I think I can come by some free fencing/chicken wire to make cages for them. They will take slightly longer to get to fruiting but I have to work with what I've got.

I made it a point to pass on the little guys this yr. I got close to the biggest buck I've ever seen on the farm during the rut hunting outside of a bedding area but he wouldnt come in close enough.

I get a real kick out of improving our land and playing with the equipment in the dirt and watching my success take off and help the deer. I want to employ the new tactics I've learned here on public land this year as well though and my scouting will begin as soon as I print a few more maps.
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