Putting together some puzzle pieces...

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dan
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Re: Putting together some puzzle pieces...

Unread postby dan » Mon May 22, 2017 12:28 am

You found 75 in a day, And you would only bother with one.. that's insane to me... I'm pretty sure that I'm letting those smaller bucks string me along... I'm left scratching my head a lot when I find a bedding area to determine how often a big buck is using it. And I think I've only found one so far that really screams a nice buck uses it often... and I mean it's so obvious I could figure it out. I think I need to Scout more and find a bunch of those areas. I thought maybe there was some small details I was missing on some of the beds to clue me in on how they are used, when most likely they're small buck beds with the occasional big buck use...

So you only bother hunting those beds that scream big buck use. Not the ones that say a big buck came through. Makes sense to me... so basically I just have to go find them? And build up my inventory of great spots. Being as I only have a short list of spots like that. Would you only hunt them when the time and conditions are right and Scout with stand on my back/ hunt hot sign the rest of the season? Cause I'm not gonna sit on the couch. Or would you just forget about hunting on those days and ONLY Scout until I have enough of those spots to fill out a full season?

The person I scouted for said he was finding beds, and was sometimes unsure if it was a bed, and was a little un-confident. I confirmed what he was looking at was indeed beds. But more "void" bedding. Big bucks bed in certain land features. The stuff I point out in videos and posts all the time. They need or want certain features in there bedding to protect them. There are really only so many spots like this on a property. The smaller/lesser deer still need to bed somewhere without getting Mr Dominant angry. They fill the void. You will find small buck and doe bedding all over the place. But even in low pressure big
bucks will bed in key predictable spots. 1st off, low human pressure does not mean no pressure. Coyotes hunt them too. And secondly, thru evolution bucks have it ingrained into there system to bed like this.

We were able to walk right past all the "void" bedding that in the past would catch this persons attention and use up his time. In this terrain (big woods with cattail marsh strips) I concentrated on the cattail strips and looked for features such as points of brush tapering down into cattails with good escape, and lone trees in marsh. The only beds that looked to be used by big bucks were those where danger was funneled down a point to the beds in one direction and could be monitored by the buck.

I wouldn't say " I only bother hunting those beds that scream big buck use" I hunt more in an area where I know a certain target buck is at and am having a hard time locating him. The "chasing down a dream" youtube video is a great example of that ( https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dXpXH1yxeB8 ) I also would walk thu a lot of the lesser bedding I don't intend to hunt to force bedding where I do intend. I would rather hunt beds that get use from mature bucks 10 or 20 times a season, than ones that get used by mature bucks 2 or 3 times a season. Some of the beds this guy was looking at got used so lightly it was hard to tell they were beds for him. Where I located the bed I would hunt there was a big rub right in the beds and two beds that were worn to the bare ground, even an exposed tree root had wear on it. Other lesser beds could be monitored when certain rublines opened up, when big tracks were on certain trails, etc...

You should never be satisfied with what you have for an inventory of spots. Keep scouting, keep adding options, keep discarding spots that never paid off. If you run out of spots put the stand on your back and look for fresh hot sign coming out of potential buck bedding. The couch is not an option if your goal is success.


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Re: Putting together some puzzle pieces...

Unread postby Lockdown » Mon May 22, 2017 2:48 am

dan wrote:
You found 75 in a day, And you would only bother with one.. that's insane to me... I'm pretty sure that I'm letting those smaller bucks string me along... I'm left scratching my head a lot when I find a bedding area to determine how often a big buck is using it. And I think I've only found one so far that really screams a nice buck uses it often... and I mean it's so obvious I could figure it out. I think I need to Scout more and find a bunch of those areas. I thought maybe there was some small details I was missing on some of the beds to clue me in on how they are used, when most likely they're small buck beds with the occasional big buck use...

So you only bother hunting those beds that scream big buck use. Not the ones that say a big buck came through. Makes sense to me... so basically I just have to go find them? And build up my inventory of great spots. Being as I only have a short list of spots like that. Would you only hunt them when the time and conditions are right and Scout with stand on my back/ hunt hot sign the rest of the season? Cause I'm not gonna sit on the couch. Or would you just forget about hunting on those days and ONLY Scout until I have enough of those spots to fill out a full season?

The person I scouted for said he was finding beds, and was sometimes unsure if it was a bed, and was a little un-confident. I confirmed what he was looking at was indeed beds. But more "void" bedding. Big bucks bed in certain land features. The stuff I point out in videos and posts all the time. They need or want certain features in there bedding to protect them. There are really only so many spots like this on a property. The smaller/lesser deer still need to bed somewhere without getting Mr Dominant angry. They fill the void. You will find small buck and doe bedding all over the place. But even in low pressure big
bucks will bed in key predictable spots. 1st off, low human pressure does not mean no pressure. Coyotes hunt them too. And secondly, thru evolution bucks have it ingrained into there system to bed like this.

We were able to walk right past all the "void" bedding that in the past would catch this persons attention and use up his time. In this terrain (big woods with cattail marsh strips) I concentrated on the cattail strips and looked for features such as points of brush tapering down into cattails with good escape, and lone trees in marsh. The only beds that looked to be used by big bucks were those where danger was funneled down a point to the beds in one direction and could be monitored by the buck.

I wouldn't say " I only bother hunting those beds that scream big buck use" I hunt more in an area where I know a certain target buck is at and am having a hard time locating him. The "chasing down a dream" youtube video is a great example of that ( https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dXpXH1yxeB8 ) I also would walk thu a lot of the lesser bedding I don't intend to hunt to force bedding where I do intend. I would rather hunt beds that get use from mature bucks 10 or 20 times a season, than ones that get used by mature bucks 2 or 3 times a season. Some of the beds this guy was looking at got used so lightly it was hard to tell they were beds for him. Where I located the bed I would hunt there was a big rub right in the beds and two beds that were worn to the bare ground, even an exposed tree root had wear on it. Other lesser beds could be monitored when certain rublines opened up, when big tracks were on certain trails, etc...

You should never be satisfied with what you have for an inventory of spots. Keep scouting, keep adding options, keep discarding spots that never paid off. If you run out of spots put the stand on your back and look for fresh hot sign coming out of potential buck bedding. The couch is not an option if your goal is success.


Great post Dan


Isitseasonyet if you're on private and have them on cam then that's half the battle. They're there. I thought you were saying you didn't know if there were big bucks on the property itself

If you can run cams IMO they will be a critical tool in helping you learn. Make your best guess on the trails he's using for enter and egress, and place your cams up high. THEN LEAVE THEM ALONE. Use the intel for next year.

I started doing this last year (actually put some over top of the individual beds) and the knowledge gained is invaluable. Putting it right over the bed isn't as helpful as the trails going to and from IMO.

The issue with this is the intrusiveness. Set them far enough back you aren't hurting your chances, or mid summer with lithium batteries so they last all year. Or set one after a hunt when your scent is already in there anyway.
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Re: Putting together some puzzle pieces...

Unread postby isitseasonyet? » Mon May 22, 2017 3:52 am

I plan on using my cams, and other tools such as tracks and sightings to be sure that a big buck is in the area. Knowing one is in the area is critical to being able to kill one.

I really do think that I could be looking at "void bedding" a lot of my scouting starts with google maps and I pick out the areas that look to have the best potential, then make a loop through them.. but once I see a bed I almost have just "left well enough alone" and figured out how to hunt that instead of going in to find the best bed in that area. Maybe I'm hitting satellite beds a few hundred yards away instead and never seeing the big one or when I do the reason he walks by out of range. That would explain my "trouble picking the right tree" thread a year o two ago..

An example would be this point out into the marsh with a lone tree or clump of brush out in the cattails 50 yards away. I'll make a loop through the point and see a bed, with big rubs near. And I had just assumed that was the big bucks bed because the big rubs were on the trails near by. This has me thinking now that he was probably bedded under that lone tree, but I didn't bother to look (cause big rubs mean big buck and I'm too green to alway recognize that just cause there's a bunch of rubs near doesn't mean that's the best bed it just means that the best bed is near by unless its in the bed) So I set up on an exit trail from the other bed. Say 50 yards away. That puts me 100+ yards away from where I need to be to see the big one. Or when I do see it it's a fleeting glimpse of him sinking through the woods. That buck probably left those rubs because that's near his bedding area, but he's probably bedded in the best spot. This ties back to the "spokes on a wheel" thread, where the closer you are to the actual bed the more you can cover. I'm gonna have to spend some time this summer going back in to those areas and finding the very best bed and how to hunt it. The wheels are turning.
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Re: Putting together some puzzle pieces...

Unread postby Lockdown » Mon May 22, 2017 8:37 am

Keep in mind, bumping a target buck seems like an awful occurrence, but is it really THAT bad? You know you're not killing him that night, but look at what you learn.

Is rather "mess up" and bump him off his bed once, than hang back and be out of the game two or three times and not see him at all.

TV shows have it pounded in our head that bumping deer is a crime... :roll:

Get aggressive!
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Re: Putting together some puzzle pieces...

Unread postby Lockdown » Mon May 22, 2017 8:39 am

If your too close or not close enough the end result is the same :think:
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Re: Putting together some puzzle pieces...

Unread postby isitseasonyet? » Mon May 22, 2017 9:01 am

Lockdown wrote:If your too close or not close enough the end result is the same :think:


That's a good way to look at it... I'll work on being more aggressive, sometimes that's a tough leap to make. But the guys who have consistent success are the ones out there making those tough decisions
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Re: Putting together some puzzle pieces...

Unread postby dan » Mon May 22, 2017 9:39 am

Lockdown wrote:If your too close or not close enough the end result is the same :think:

:clap: I might quote you on that!
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Re: Putting together some puzzle pieces...

Unread postby stash59 » Mon May 22, 2017 2:14 pm

I recently had the privilege of having Dan come on a personal scout with me. I got lucky and the first spot I picked. Had just what your looking for. A point of brush leading out to a large lone tree. Only all the beds were in/by the brush and smaller trees. The cover got too thin by the big tree. You could see beds for most every wind direction. Fortunately in this case the point was very narrow. Probably growth on an old drainage ditch bank. Surrounded by marsh. So the beds were pretty concentrated. There weren't alot of rubs and some seemed barely touched and hard to see. I would probably have missed them without Dan there. No big tracks but the big boy/s may not have moved back in yet from their wintering area.

Another smaller point nearby had a similar setup. Just on a smaller scale. Again the larger lone tree had too little cover. Dan said they need shade also.Something else that I hadn't considered.

I know there are some cases of only one bed in a primary bedding area. And others with multiple beds in say a 5 acre area. But the way this spot laid out was a real eye opener. The experience will help immensely on all bedding types.

Don't be afraid to go in even into July to help confirm things. Harder to see intel is better than no/not enough intel!!

Good luck young man!!!

Chuck
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Re: Putting together some puzzle pieces...

Unread postby isitseasonyet? » Sun May 28, 2017 7:55 am

dan wrote:
isitseasonyet? wrote:
dan wrote:Im sure what you stated here is part of your issue... But... It probably has more to do with your exact hunting spots. Lots and lots of scouting and picking the best bedding areas will reap better results. Timing is certainly part of the equation, but your timing can vary more if your on great bedding... The very best primary bedding will have a buck bedded there on most days if left un harassed. However, you gotta put some miles on your boots to find those spots, and then you gotta recognize what you found...

I look at thousands of buck beds a year, the overall majority I would not throw a stand at, and the ones I do only a small portion pay off... As Kenny Rodgers once said, you gotta know when to hold them, know when to fold them, know when to walk away, and know when to run... This is especially true if looking at beds in post season, but hunting them during season... If something looks great to you, throw a stand at it, maybe two. But keep looking for those great spots, and keep walking away from the worst as you add better. It will get easier... Your still learning. It takes time. There will come a time when you look at an area and you will know where that buck will be just because of all the time you spent scouting and hunting, but its down the road...


Well alright, you threw me a curve on this one, let's see if I can learn something. Where I hunt there are big bucks to be had, but not many, I may have a crack at 1 or two a year... my current scouting is putting me on bucks, I mean just about every sit when I do everything perfectly (wind, access, setup) I see a buck but he's small, like I see a TON of 1-2 year olds, and a very rare 3 year old (a target animal for me) Is this because I'm just not hunting those beds when the big one is there or is it because I'm in the wrong spots?

The beds I focus on when scouting appear to have all the "ingredients" just not a ton of buck buck sign, maybe a few sets of big tracks, poopies, and some old rubs, but not pounded with them, I figured that was how it would be based on not a lot of big ones around. Sounds to me that I'm not hunting the right areas, either I'm not finding target bucks because there are none, and I need to go hunt where there are to find the "right kinda beds?" Or I'm just not finding those in my areas? Which is probably the case.... if so, I need to get my but back in the woods and find them, because my scouting now has found me more of what I've hunted in the past.

If small bucks are coming out of the bedding, you might be in the right spots... I can't say for sure. But I can say a few of my best primary spots produce a shooter buck more than a small buck, but theY Are much fewer in number and harder to find. I scouted all day today for a guy in terrain I thought was pretty easy to read and scout. Found probably 75 bedding areas or beds. I recommended he hunt 3 of them. I personally would only bother with one. That one looked to me that it had all the ingredients needed for a big buck, and heavy wear. He had good escape, good cover, good primary wind danger detection, and big buck sign (rubs in the bed).


In hill country, hunt above or below the trail you think he's likely to take, with the wind blowing over the ridge, should I get high enough that the wind blows over? Or be on the lower side so my wind blows down?
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Re: Putting together some puzzle pieces...

Unread postby dan » Sun May 28, 2017 8:18 am

In hill country, hunt above or below the trail you think he's likely to take, with the wind blowing over the ridge, should I get high enough that the wind blows over? Or be on the lower side so my wind blows down?
If your hunting after thermal drop I would prefer to be down hill. Otherwise its situational. If below, you cant be at eye level, so you need to be pretty high.
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Re: Putting together some puzzle pieces...

Unread postby isitseasonyet? » Sun May 28, 2017 8:31 am

dan wrote:
In hill country, hunt above or below the trail you think he's likely to take, with the wind blowing over the ridge, should I get high enough that the wind blows over? Or be on the lower side so my wind blows down?
If your hunting after thermal drop I would prefer to be down hill. Otherwise its situational. If below, you cant be at eye level, so you need to be pretty high.


Below it is... my acess can be super clean from the bottom. The cover is thick now so this could change in the fall, if I need to be around eye level or not much higher can I get away with facing my stand the other way? Tree between me and the deer? It's a good sized tree that I should be able to hide behind

With the thermal drop. Should I access and wait for that to happen (dropping milkweed) and as soon as it hits go set up, or has that happened by the time you get in for an evening hunt?
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Re: Putting together some puzzle pieces...

Unread postby IkemanTx » Sun May 28, 2017 1:44 pm

isitseasonyet? wrote:
dan wrote:
In hill country, hunt above or below the trail you think he's likely to take, with the wind blowing over the ridge, should I get high enough that the wind blows over? Or be on the lower side so my wind blows down?
If your hunting after thermal drop I would prefer to be down hill. Otherwise its situational. If below, you cant be at eye level, so you need to be pretty high.


Below it is... my acess can be super clean from the bottom. The cover is thick now so this could change in the fall, if I need to be around eye level or not much higher can I get away with facing my stand the other way? Tree between me and the deer? It's a good sized tree that I should be able to hide behind

With the thermal drop. Should I access and wait for that to happen (dropping milkweed) and as soon as it hits go set up, or has that happened by the time you get in for an evening hunt?


This sounds like a perfect setup for a saddle. I have been planning trees with the tree between me and where I expect the deer to come from. The saddle makes that super easy because I am facing the tree... breaks up my outline well.
Go where none other dare to go, and there you'll find success.
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Re: Putting together some puzzle pieces...

Unread postby dan » Mon May 29, 2017 1:10 am

isitseasonyet? wrote:
dan wrote:
In hill country, hunt above or below the trail you think he's likely to take, with the wind blowing over the ridge, should I get high enough that the wind blows over? Or be on the lower side so my wind blows down?
If your hunting after thermal drop I would prefer to be down hill. Otherwise its situational. If below, you cant be at eye level, so you need to be pretty high.


Below it is... my acess can be super clean from the bottom. The cover is thick now so this could change in the fall, if I need to be around eye level or not much higher can I get away with facing my stand the other way? Tree between me and the deer? It's a good sized tree that I should be able to hide behind

With the thermal drop. Should I access and wait for that to happen (dropping milkweed) and as soon as it hits go set up, or has that happened by the time you get in for an evening hunt?

Out of a treestand I would not recommend facing away from the deer. As mentioned by Ikeman you could get away with a set up like that with a treesaddle. I prefer a stand. Facing dead on at the approaching deer if possible. I try to be inline with the deer so I blend in with the tree. From behind there tends to be to much movement and that gets you busted more than being on the facing side of the tree. As far as coming in after thermal drop, I would say if you need to do that yes... But if your rising thermal is not going to hit the bed, or if you can come in from a way it don't, I would get there earlier. Coming in after thermal drop is a last resort cause of lack of options and is a little risky.
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Re: Putting together some puzzle pieces...

Unread postby Tennhunter3 » Mon May 29, 2017 6:13 pm

Great questions :clap: so much amazing information on this thread!
Never give up Freedom for imagined safety.


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