Deer Baiting

[hunter_mike]

Anybody can claim they know anyone! Or make a claim about how others hunt!

My guess is most guys on here have used bait, at some point of their hunting careers.

What is the point of this post? Most of us don't know Andre, so what does it really matter!

All I know is...the guy is a tree stand pioneer! And one of the best whitetail hunter around!

Oh Boy! Feeling the heat here....

After reading all posts, I guess I totally came off the wrong way.

Just want to say publicly, that if I came off as detracting from anyone, talking , slandering, trolling, etc. That was never my intent. After rereading what I started the post with and the comments, I would say that I shouldn't have said anything.

What I do want to say is all the information from board, videos, from Dan and Andre is innovative and impressive and thats my honest opinion.

If I could delete this post I would, but I did however post this and will have to take my licks, but again I should have just kept my mouth shut and I never intended to detract anything from Andre! I also do not know Andre. I am just here to learn, I guess I learned to think before posting!

I hear ya Sidewayz. I don't think you did anything wrong at all. You did bring up a topic that many feel passionately about. This thread has the potential to turn into a 6 page monster and as long as it stays respectful, its good conversation. Similar topics have been brought up before, not sure if you have read some of them or not:

http://thehuntingbeast.com/viewtopic.ph ... ty#p223028

[<DK>]

Politics and jealousy are amazing. They help taint people's hard work and good name.

Agreed, well said vtbuck. Sidewayz welcome to the best btw and dont stress about anything. You asked a question, it's a touchy subject, we are all passionate about the beast and we love the guy. I like your confidence and one of your quotes. This site has some of the best and kind hunters iv ever seen. This site is more than a hunting forum, to me at least... hunter mike is right, use the search function, it is tricky sometimes to fid what you want, just tinker around w different settings.

[Nocturnal]

Anybody can claim they know anyone! Or make a claim about how others hunt!

My guess is most guys on here have used bait, at some point of their hunting careers.

What is the point of this post? Most of us don't know Andre, so what does it really matter!

All I know is...the guy is a tree stand pioneer! And one of the best whitetail hunter around!

Oh Boy! Feeling the heat here....

After reading all posts, I guess I totally came off the wrong way.

Just want to say publicly, that if I came off as detracting from anyone, talking , slandering, trolling, etc. That was never my intent. After rereading what I started the post with and the comments, I would say that I shouldn't have said anything.

What I do want to say is all the information from board, videos, from Dan and Andre is innovative and impressive and thats my honest opinion.

If I could delete this post I would, but I did however post this and will have to take my licks, but again I should have just kept my mouth shut and I never intended to detract anything from Andre! I also do not know Andre. I am just here to learn, I guess I learned to think before posting!

I didn't see you come off in any negative way. The way I see it. Success can make people jealous in some sort of way. People handle jealousy is different manners and it's usually to lift their own spirits. I'm sure he's heard worse and anyone that repeats success has heard silly things like that.

[Rich M]

Even if an individual was baiting deer your not going to get a world class buck to come to a bait pile unless it's behind a fence.

A free range mature Whitetail is not going to stroll up. Maybe a 2.5 or 3.5.

You never tried corn before, have you?
If you have and aren't seeing more or bigger deer, you need to modify your techniques. It works, but you need to treat it like you treat bed hunting - no scent left behind.

Ever notice the hunting videos where the bucks like to feed just behind that log? On the other side of the bush - what did you think they were eating? Natural browse? One of my main complaints about some videos - Why would some sponsor pay some joker to video a hunt over a corn pile and lie about all the scouting that went into it. The guy's wife has been waiting for the perfect wind...then you see the buck running does off and they won't leave the bait. Would I hunt it - sure, but not gonna brag about my abilities when using the magic yellow pellets...(very legal where I hunt private land)

You can do just as good with goat pellets and some acorn rage on 'em (mix in a coffee can or the like). Those are harder to see on the ground or on the cam...


BTW, I don't know Andre or Dan but those boys sure can hunt. More power to them and a special thanks for sharing their knowledge with us.

[JoeRE]

Ever notice the hunting videos where the bucks like to feed just behind that log? On the other side of the bush - what did you think they were eating? Natural browse?

HAHA that's a HUGE pet peeve of mine...I see that in a hunting video and my blood pressure just spikes. And I see it all the time

Its not the fact they are baiting on video that bothers me. If its legal where you are and you think its OK, go for it. But its the fact the hunter thinks they should (or can) HIDE the fact they are baiting from the camera. But just watch what the deer are doing - gimme a break!!

Anyway complete side tangent, I appreciate how pretty much everyone has kept this thread classy. By this point on any other forum everybody would be name calling and slinging crap back and forth.

[Outdoor814]

Even if an individual was baiting deer your not going to get a world class buck to come to a bait pile unless it's behind a fence.

A free range mature Whitetail is not going to stroll up. Maybe a 2.5 or 3.5.

You never tried corn before, have you?
If you have and aren't seeing more or bigger deer, you need to modify your techniques. It works, but you need to treat it like you treat bed hunting - no scent left behind.

Ever notice the hunting videos where the bucks like to feed just behind that log? On the other side of the bush - what did you think they were eating? Natural browse? One of my main complaints about some videos - Why would some sponsor pay some joker to video a hunt over a corn pile and lie about all the scouting that went into it. The guy's wife has been waiting for the perfect wind...then you see the buck running does off and they won't leave the bait. Would I hunt it - sure, but not gonna brag about my abilities when using the magic yellow pellets...(very legal where I hunt private land)

You can do just as good with goat pellets and some acorn rage on 'em (mix in a coffee can or the like). Those are harder to see on the ground or on the cam...


BTW, I don't know Andre or Dan but those boys sure can hunt. More power to them and a special thanks for sharing their knowledge with us.

It's it illegal to hunt over bait in my state

[Rich M]

814 - If you ever start hunting where baiting is legal - let me know. I'll give you some tips on how I was taught by a backwoods GA boy. It doesn't involve a feeder or trough...

[stash59]

Anybody can claim they know anyone! Or make a claim about how others hunt!

My guess is most guys on here have used bait, at some point of their hunting careers.

What is the point of this post? Most of us don't know Andre, so what does it really matter!

All I know is...the guy is a tree stand pioneer! And one of the best whitetail hunter around!

Oh Boy! Feeling the heat here....

After reading all posts, I guess I totally came off the wrong way.

Just want to say publicly, that if I came off as detracting from anyone, talking , slandering, trolling, etc. That was never my intent. After rereading what I started the post with and the comments, I would say that I shouldn't have said anything.

What I do want to say is all the information from board, videos, from Dan and Andre is innovative and impressive and thats my honest opinion.

If I could delete this post I would, but I did however post this and will have to take my licks, but again I should have just kept my mouth shut and I never intended to detract anything from Andre! I also do not know Andre. I am just here to learn, I guess I learned to think before posting!

Sorry I came off so strong. I was just totally taken aback by where the topic actually went to. So fast. Baiting can work well. For does. If it's legal in an area. I would use it for does. For me killing does is more like work. Trying to bet a freezer filled any legal way possible. Now if I was a picture of health. I'd probably try and just do it the hard way.

Though still few. I've enjoyed your other posts. I knew it was more of a curiosity thing for you. I was more angry at the guy pushing his doodo on you. But didn't express myself very well. We're pretty passionate people around here!!! I don't know Andea either. But I trust Dan. Dan's never used baitng and Adrea in the same sentence. Nuff said!!!

Keep right on posting. Just be careful when it's heresay about doubting someones integrety.

[SidewayZ]

No worries, glad we were able to sort this all out.

I agree with everyone, you cant talk that articulately and at that length, the way Andre and Dan do for it to be baloney

[tgreeno]

Anybody can claim they know anyone! Or make a claim about how others hunt!

My guess is most guys on here have used bait, at some point of their hunting careers.

What is the point of this post? Most of us don't know Andre, so what does it really matter!

All I know is...the guy is a tree stand pioneer! And one of the best whitetail hunter around!

Oh Boy! Feeling the heat here....

After reading all posts, I guess I totally came off the wrong way.

Just want to say publicly, that if I came off as detracting from anyone, talking , slandering, trolling, etc. That was never my intent. After rereading what I started the post with and the comments, I would say that I shouldn't have said anything.

What I do want to say is all the information from board, videos, from Dan and Andre is innovative and impressive and thats my honest opinion.

If I could delete this post I would, but I did however post this and will have to take my licks, but again I should have just kept my mouth shut and I never intended to detract anything from Andre! I also do not know Andre. I am just here to learn, I guess I learned to think before posting!

Sorry, I guess my post came acrossed stronger than intended! My Bad! It's all good!

[dan]

Andrae hunted over bait a few times. I don't think he has in the last couple decades though... Heck, I have even done it a time or two many years ago. If its legal. Who cares?

The whole bait debate thing is stupid, at least in Wisconsin it is... Guys want it banned and say its impacting there hunting and cuss about everyone who has or does bait. But in reality, the limits in how much bait your allowed to use make it impossible to impact anyone, and when you mention that fact these guys immediately bark out that they have seen truck loads of bait in one spot... If thats the case, you still don't have a baiting issue... You have a poaching issue. Banning bait would not make any imact on anyone hunting without bait. People putting out truck loads when there is a 2 gallon limit are poachers, they are goin g to break the law regardless of whether or not its legal...

I don't hunt over bait cause I enjoy the one on one chess game with the buck. Hunting him on his terms. You learn a whole lot more, and in my opinion have more satisfaction in a buck hunted down, rather than a buck tricked. But, thats my thing... I care less what others do.

[Jonny]

Baiting is illegal where I usually hunt. Bow hunted an area a couple times during the week before gun season. Gun hunted a totally different area, and went back to where I was bow hunting later in the week to push a couple beds I found earlier in the year. When I got back to the area I bow hunted, I found multiple empty bags of corn, and a pile of corn that looks like it hadn't been touched. It was on the middle of the logging trail. Showed me that most people who bait don't know where to place bait, won't effect the deer enough to concern me. The guy overlooking it was sleeping when I walked by, heard me as I passed him, and ended up shooting a doe I jumped to him.

Should I have reported him? Probably. Did I? Nope. I told him afterwards when nobody was listening that I found the bags and pile of corn and that it is illegal where we were. New rule last year I believe. Told me he had no idea and thanked me for warning him and not reporting him. Still was well over the 2 gallon limit so I am sure he knows and didn't care.

Anyways, my point is, I don't care if somebody baits if its legal. If you are friendly, I really don't care if you do it illegally. You still need to place the bait in a spot where you will see deer in daylight, still need to access your stand correctly, and do everything we all do. Its just a little aid. Like a government subsidy or using a crutch or a cane. There is no shame in using it as long as you accept you are in a way trying to aid yourself to be better than others without putting in tons of more work than everybody else in scouting, practice, you name it. I just have an issue when people act like baiting is the same as putting hard work in and they are better cause they don't need to put the work in. Its an apples and oranges debate, but some don't get it. I have this issue over lots of things whether it be getting aid for test taking in school, getting government assistance for things, getting everything paid for by mom and dad, etc. I take pride in that I do things the hard way, and in my mind, the morally and ethically best way. I don't look down on others cause they do it differently than me. I do when they try to compare it or brag about it.

Should I care about people breaking the law more than I do? Sure. But honestly, how many of us haven't bent a couple rules before. I drive over the speed limit, and I have passed for 21 for the last 4 years. Nobody is perfect, I know I'm not and I don't feel like ruining other peoples days, especially if they are nice to me. Now if somebody does something illegal and is not friendly with me, then I do something, more cause now I don't really like them and have a bone to pick. I have more fun rotating steps, putting a climber 7 feet off the ground, tying pull up ropes in tight knots around a tree, than I do calling the police or warden over every little thing. I also really don't have many issues so I can usually go to a new area and avoid the whole thing. Some people aren't blessed with huge tracts of public land outside their cabin, so maybe you need to do things differently than me. I know if I start calling wardens for every little thing, then pretty soon I will be getting probed by the wardens all the time cause suddenly the area I hunt becomes a popular area for them.

Baiting is just another way to level the playing field. Do I like it? No. Would I use it? No. But in the end, if you shoot a deer, you are either very lucky, or a good hunter. That is how I see it. I don't think of Andrae any less because he baited deer. His wall is still more impressive than mine. And as a hunter I respect that. I just notice a little * every now and then as well. Same with all the tv big shots. I see a lot of * next to what they get. Why? It wasn't 100% the same as my definition of hunting, fair chase, etc. The results are still there, I just interpret them slightly different.

To each their own. All that really matters is how you see yourself when you look in the mirror. Don't really care about how others see me at this point. Did enough of that in middle school
If you can make yourself happy and proud of yourself, that is when you are successful. However you choose to do it, not my issue. Just yours

[Swampbuck]

814 - If you ever start hunting where baiting is legal - let me know. I'll give you some tips on how I was taught by a backwoods GA boy. It doesn't involve a feeder or trough...

I'd like to hear more about this strategy. Can't do it here but it's still interesting

[Rich M]

Dan, you are just too nice. Other folks are just busy messing in people's business where they don"t belong.

Gonna overly forthright here - As you can tell, I'm not above using any legal method to help this deaf guy succeed.

It really isn't complicated, just too many guys get caught up in bait piles or feeders. If you can set a feeder and leave it for 2-3 months, the deer will get used to it. Mine was throwing 1 to 2 pounds of corn (200# feeder, roughly 3 months between fills). Deer were on it in about 4-5 weeks.

A pile is not the best way to set corn. The corn will mold faster in a pile.

SO - you know the bucks bed in Area A and typically follow trails to cross a tote road or edge to get to their night time areas. You can set a feeder 100 yards off to the side of the trails they use infrequently and allow them to "find" the corn. You also have the feeder dump at noon or 1 pm so the corn is just there when they come thru - no spinning noises at dawn and dusk. (there is a thing called Ghost feeder - all you hear is the corn hit the ground - I don't have one but it is the cat's meow for hunting leases where other guys will listen for your feeder to spin...)

You can spread corn along the edge where they cross - it will typically take a deer 1 crossing to find the corn. Amazing how they do that. Spread it out. A 40/50# bag will do 75-100 yards of trail, 8-10 feet wide. /\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\ I tend to swing it back and forth while trickling it out at a medium pace. Deer are used to moving as they eat but will often park themselves and just chow.

50-100# (1 or 2 bags) will last 3-7 days. The deer will find it and feed for 5-10 minutes before moving on. They will also start looking for the corn in that area. Don't always put it in the same spot.

Spreading works the best if you can minimize/limit your scent. Best to have a cleared path with no branches or weeds sticking out to grab you and collect scent. I would throw heavy on Sunday and often have a good hunt the following weekend, throw again on Sunday... Sometimes I would throw when I got there if I knew deer would be coming through and I wanted them to pause.

The main thing the corn does is make the deer hesitate and give you a shot. It often makes them follow the edge more too, instead of just zipping across.

So, now we get into the season and the deer are skittish. They will not hit corn where they've been feeding on it for the last 2 months. You need to move it. I did that this year - had a 1/2 mile 2-track corned up and planted in oats - the deer stopped hitting it in daylight. So I went 1/4 mile away (by rd) and spread 100 yards of path. Had several deer on it at first light timeframe in 2 days. Was able to get on them but did not shoot.

Deer will stop using an area in a heartbeat and not return during daylight if they know you are there. Happens a lot.

Guess what I'm saying is to use the corn to slow 'em down, keep it moving around, and spread out instead of piling it. Once they catch on to you it is done at that spot. They do like areas with some cover too - a mowed 2-track through some dog fennels or brush is perfect - thick cover, yet open enough for you to see.

I also only hunt about 3 weekends a year, say up to 10 days total. Not being in there very often keeps the scent down and deer comfortable. Play the wind. Don't brush against stuff while coming and going, etc...

The goat feed and acorn rage is something my uncle does to get trail cam pics in the summer (not legal to hunt bait there). It is brown so it blends in. They mostly fill a coffee container with feed, pour some rage in there and shake to mix it up. Pour it out along a trail. They get pics of deer fighting over it.

Hope this helps. Not an exact science but folks have a tendency to over-use areas and scare the deer off. Moving the bait around will reduce that a bit. Also helps to bait some before the season opens and get them using the area, see what is coming in, and then hitting them on opening day. That's always the best chance at un-alert deer in most areas.

What I found impacted the deer the most on my last lease were - driving in to pick up a fresh shot dead one, and having 3 club guys invade and scout my "private lease" on pretense of needing to do some work on the lease. The truck put those trails OFF, as in never-again. The three dudes put them nocturnal on my little piece with just 1 visit - it was intentional and they were jerks about it. I would have liked to hunt that area in the rut without anyone having been in there...


One last thought - some folks will intentionally place bait in order to mess your hunting. If the law says 200 yards, they'll put it 150 from your stand and call the LEO when you show up to hunt. That's just mean...

[Wlog]

If he baited, he baited, so be it. Nearly everyone I know around here baits because it's legal and there is no limit. It's not my thing but who am I to judge. It's just like any other tactic really. I know guys who dump out tons of bait and do ok. And I know a couple guys who have it down to a science. One guy in particular spends $1000 a year on shelled corn and has a wall of bucks that would rival anyone's.

A few weeks ago I found an awesome bedding area. Big worn bed. Nice big waist high rubs. I was following all the trails in and out and trying to come up with a plan on how to setup. Then I found a feeder and a ladder stand right against the public private border about 120 yards from the bedding area. I'll have to shake that guys hand when I kill that buck because he took all the guess work out of which way does he leave the bed.