Forced movement

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swampyak
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Forced movement

Unread postby swampyak » Thu Mar 02, 2017 12:40 pm

I was wondering how many beast members utilize forced movement as part of their tactics. Those who do, how much do you take wind into consideration.


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Jonny
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Re: Forced movement

Unread postby Jonny » Thu Mar 02, 2017 2:37 pm

I do for gun season. I know where people come from and where they go to and try to set up so that my wind blows away from them.

That's what I did this year. North wind blew my scent down the river bottom where I knew nobody would go and push deer. I had people to my east, west and north who put out scent and noise which funneled the deer to me.

Sounds weird to have the my scent blowing away from the people, but I am expecting the deer to react to the other hunters and circle them, probably downwind. So if a deer circles downwind, they will end up right by me.

Doesn't always work, but for gun season, I put all my chips on other hunters moving deer. With a low density I feel like it is my best odds. 1 for 1 so far.
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Re: Forced movement

Unread postby mauser06 » Thu Mar 02, 2017 6:00 pm

Opening day of rifle I do... Typically in a funnel, thick area, thermal tunnel etc and packed for dark to dark to catch all the mid day movement when other guys are leaving and such.

The rest of rifle and Flintlock season a good bit of my days are with another guy or a few guys moving deer. We do pretty alright.

That's one thing they won't listen to me on....Wind is absolutely a factor. As is how and where the Stander's come in. One year I setup the Stander's on a drive. We didn't barely step into the woods and another hunter dropped a monster. Wind was right to him blowing from us...And from his bed, he was monitoring the normal parking and access. Where we came in.


We rarely kill a big buck. But I have tons on trail cameras. Those big bucks are educated to the max. They literally know every trick we have. My buddies won't listen and change it up. They are blinded by seeing some does and small bucks and occasionally a good one..But it's rare. Usually are good ones come from somewhere new or when we do something different.

My one buddy never sits. He walks all season. But literally walks the exact trail he walked the day before. Tomorrow he walks it again.


We have fun...But I know Hunting with them, my chance at a buck I wanna shoot is slim.


We found a honey hole push a couple years ago. First time we tried it and I dropped a good buck. 2nd time a guy dropped a doe...The next year I dropped another buck...This year...First time yielded another buck. Flintlock season a guy missed another...Then they started pushing it 2-3 times A DAY because it worked so well. The chances of a big buck there are drastically reduced now. Once or twice a season you can probably get away with. Countless times a season..They aren't dumb lol.


Well thought out pushes can be fantastic. A lot of times all it takes is 1 gun in the right spot and 1 dog to blow some stink the right direction and sneak along.

My dad and I had a push that worked well...Just me and him. We went 3 for 3 in 3 years. With the right conditions, it was almost a sure bet one of use would get a shot at a shooter. Unfortunately that spots been found by others and it's not what it was.


Deer live by their senses. Take them into consideration and you can be very successful. You don't need 25 guys banging on pots n pans hooting and hollering. Those big drives would be a massacre if those crews thought it out...But from what I see, they typically don't. They line something up and push it out. And like my small crew sees, they are jaded by doe and small buck.


But, to some guys, seeing a lot of deer is better than 1 big deer. Basically what has led me to this site...I'm changing my tactics and more and more I'm alone doing my own thing. I've in rifle and Flintlock now..I will still hunt alone and not hunt with my buddies. I'm after something more..They won't listen and change. Same with their head crew...I quit going at all because their bear tactics are a joke and they are jaded by a cub or 2 a season. With the number of guys they have and the ground we are near, they could drop a couple slobs and not walk 10+ miles every day like they do now..
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Re: Forced movement

Unread postby dan » Thu Mar 02, 2017 10:40 pm

Wind is always a factor... Forced movment as in drives I do with gun, and occasionally with bow... But I also do a lot of forced movement to relocate bucks to a bedding area where I can kill them. I set the stage... I also use forced movement from other hunters (people, coyotes, and wolves) to predict where bucks will be.
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strutnrut716
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Re: Forced movement

Unread postby strutnrut716 » Fri Mar 03, 2017 2:36 am

I learned many years ago while gun hunting to definitely be on stand during lunch time. Pack my lunch and remain on stand all day. Killed many deer while the human masses just "had" to get up for lunch. Also, if its a real cold morning, most humans cant sit very well and have to get up "for a walk to stay warm". Thank you very much for forcing movement !!

Now that I have some beast training I will refine this even further in the future.... :think:
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Re: Forced movement

Unread postby tgreeno » Fri Mar 03, 2017 3:17 am

Other than drives during gun hunting, and little 2 man pushes, I don't used forced movement much. We've all had some random hunter kick a deer over to us that we've shot. Usually just lucky. I sometimes try to use others movement in my favor. It doesn't usually work out the way I plan. So most of the time I just do my own thing. And make it happen on my own.

And wind is always a factor every time I'm in the woods!
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Re: Forced movement

Unread postby Jonny » Fri Mar 03, 2017 3:28 am

strutnrut716 wrote:I learned many years ago while gun hunting to definitely be on stand during lunch time. Pack my lunch and remain on stand all day. Killed many deer while the human masses just "had" to get up for lunch. Also, if its a real cold morning, most humans cant sit very well and have to get up "for a walk to stay warm". Thank you very much for forcing movement !!

Now that I have some beast training I will refine this even further in the future.... :think:


Noon packer games on sunday of gun season have me foaming at the mouth
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hunter_mike
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Re: Forced movement

Unread postby hunter_mike » Fri Mar 03, 2017 4:21 am

strutnrut716 wrote:I learned many years ago while gun hunting to definitely be on stand during lunch time. Pack my lunch and remain on stand all day. Killed many deer while the human masses just "had" to get up for lunch. Also, if its a real cold morning, most humans cant sit very well and have to get up "for a walk to stay warm". Thank you very much for forcing movement !!

Now that I have some beast training I will refine this even further in the future.... :think:


This is very true and unfortunately the opposite is true as well when we try to force deer movement.

I would say careful what you wish for, when bumping deer on purpose.

I have no way to confirm this but I am pretty sure I directly forced 3 different hunters into getting kills that they normally wouldnt have gotten this past gun season. 2 bucks and a doe.

Of course I am happy for them but I would have rather seen the deer not be killed as a result of me bumping them to someone. So moral of my story is be conscious about where the deer are likely going to run. If the areas around you are filled with hunters the day you do this, there is a good chance deer are going to die and its not necessarily going to be you doing the killing.

I am not saying do or don't do it, I am just saying think about the best and worst things that can happen and weigh the two.
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Re: Forced movement

Unread postby Jonny » Fri Mar 03, 2017 4:41 am

hunter_mike wrote:
strutnrut716 wrote:I learned many years ago while gun hunting to definitely be on stand during lunch time. Pack my lunch and remain on stand all day. Killed many deer while the human masses just "had" to get up for lunch. Also, if its a real cold morning, most humans cant sit very well and have to get up "for a walk to stay warm". Thank you very much for forcing movement !!

Now that I have some beast training I will refine this even further in the future.... :think:


This is very true and unfortunately the opposite is true as well when we try to force deer movement.

I would say careful what you wish for, when bumping deer on purpose.

I have no way to confirm this but I am pretty sure I directly forced 3 different hunters into getting kills that they normally wouldnt have gotten this past gun season. 2 bucks and a doe.

Of course I am happy for them but I would have rather seen the deer not be killed as a result of me bumping them to someone. So moral of my story is be conscious about where the deer are likely going to run. If the areas around you are filled with hunters the day you do this, there is a good chance deer are going to die and its not necessarily going to be you doing the killing.

I am not saying do or don't do it, I am just saying think about the best and worst things that can happen and weigh the two.



Last season I was going to push a couple beds on a ridge to my dad. While circling to the upwind side of the ridge, I walked past a guy who was sleeping on a log. He heard me walk by and woke up, and I said I was going to walk the ridge and to be ready for a deer to jump to you. He was sitting on a heavily used trail coming down the ridge. Started walking, and not 30 seconds later, heard a gunshot. Finished the drive and pushed a couple to my dad but he couldn't get a shot :doh:

That same guy shot a doe. When we got back he had it gutted, and I helped drag it out for him since he was an older guy and it was maybe a quarter mile drag. Happiest guy in the world, said it was years since he shot a deer. Gave me and my dad a case of beer for it.

Ordinarily, I would be mad we didn't get the deer, but seeing how happy the guy was about getting that deer, made me happy about it. That being said, there was a camper parked in the lot but no truck which is common as guys will hunt away from their camper when they don't get the spot they want, or can't park a camper where they want to. If I knew he was back there, I wouldn't have gone, but definitely will go back next year if the same camper is there. Have zero problem pushing somebody else deer, especially when they are really appreciative of it and acknowledge you were the reason they got it.

On the other hand, I have pushed a couple deer to people who get offended when you say you jumped it.
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Re: Forced movement

Unread postby hunter_mike » Fri Mar 03, 2017 5:00 am

Jonny wrote:
On the other hand, I have pushed a couple deer to people who get offended when you say you jumped it.


Yep, if I were to tell someone they wouldnt have shot something if it wasnt for me, I could see how they could easily take that as me trying to downplay their accomplishment. I would say I agree with your approach of just being happy for the successful hunter.
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Re: Forced movement

Unread postby tgreeno » Fri Mar 03, 2017 5:21 am

hunter_mike wrote:
Jonny wrote:
On the other hand, I have pushed a couple deer to people who get offended when you say you jumped it.


Yep, if I were to tell someone they wouldnt have shot something if it wasnt for me, I could see how they could easily take that as me trying to downplay their accomplishment. I would say I agree with your approach of just being happy for the successful hunter.


Success is success! To me it makes no difference whether someone kicked it to me or it walked up on it's own. I made the decision to be in that spot at that particular time. 2 years ago I almost got my largest buck to date, because my brother in law spooked it and it headed my way.
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Re: Forced movement

Unread postby hunter_mike » Fri Mar 03, 2017 5:52 am

tgreeno wrote:
hunter_mike wrote:
Jonny wrote:
On the other hand, I have pushed a couple deer to people who get offended when you say you jumped it.


Yep, if I were to tell someone they wouldnt have shot something if it wasnt for me, I could see how they could easily take that as me trying to downplay their accomplishment. I would say I agree with your approach of just being happy for the successful hunter.


Success is success! To me it makes no difference whether someone kicked it to me or it walked up on it's own. I made the decision to be in that spot at that particular time. 2 years ago I almost got my largest buck to date, because my brother in law spooked it and it headed my way.


I am right there with u Tgreeno! Some people get upset easier though
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Re: Forced movement

Unread postby Jonny » Fri Mar 03, 2017 7:58 am

hunter_mike wrote:
tgreeno wrote:
hunter_mike wrote:
Jonny wrote:
On the other hand, I have pushed a couple deer to people who get offended when you say you jumped it.


Yep, if I were to tell someone they wouldnt have shot something if it wasnt for me, I could see how they could easily take that as me trying to downplay their accomplishment. I would say I agree with your approach of just being happy for the successful hunter.


Success is success! To me it makes no difference whether someone kicked it to me or it walked up on it's own. I made the decision to be in that spot at that particular time. 2 years ago I almost got my largest buck to date, because my brother in law spooked it and it headed my way.


I am right there with u Tgreeno! Some people get upset easier though


Absolutely. I am happy jumping deer to other people. I love seeing people successful because happiness spreads easily. Obviously I would prefer if my dad or I shot it, but by no means do I get upset somebody else shot one.

Some guys are selfish and think everybody is out to crush their moment, and those are the guys I avoid in the future if I can help it. The guys who are really nice and happy, are the guys who will see me in my prison jumpsuit pushing deer next year to my dad, and knowing their odds to get one just went up tremendously because of me forcing deer movement. I have yet to see anybody complain about someone else walking around pushing deer. They just complain when you ask where the deer came from cause they think somebody is out to get their suddenly great spot or something, when really I just am curious to where the deer was bedding when I jumped it.

I have met some great people out deer hunting and met some real characters. Part of hunting public land
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Re: Forced movement

Unread postby swampyak » Thu Mar 09, 2017 1:15 pm

What wind directions does everyone find bucks most likely to travel. With and into the wind or something different
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Re: Forced movement

Unread postby JoeRE » Fri Mar 10, 2017 3:41 am

swampyak wrote:What wind directions does everyone find bucks most likely to travel. With and into the wind or something different


I think that varies by region and what deer get chased by. Around here the principal gun season tactic is big deer drives. Older deer both bucks and does learn to survive by taking off into the wind so they can detect any blockers. If you figure out how to pick them off heading into a just off wind that can actually make things easier (more predictable). It took me a decade to get pretty good at that and its one of the main tactics my two brothers and I use late season. Its extremely consistent that we see this, rare exceptions.

The more gently you get them on their feet, the more likely you can get them to move with a different wind (see the recent MWW episode about wind bumping) but I still see most mature bucks hook into the wind when bumped around here

Compare that to what I have heard from other hunters and seen a little myself up north in wolf and bear country. When deer get bumped they seem to prefer to go with wind to back because they are more worried about what is chasing them. Its interesting how they adapt!


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