? 4 Dan and other hill experts! Scouting non leeward sides.
- stash59
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? 4 Dan and other hill experts! Scouting non leeward sides.
How often if ever do you scout the not normal wind direction leeward side of the ridge? Just so you have spots should the wind blow from the wrong way. Kinda like last season here in the Midwest. Lots of east and southeast winds occurred. Maybe not specific beds but at least look for possible bedding places.
All of you consistently successful guys talk about paying attention to details. Wouldn't this be an important detail? Not getting caught with your pants down in this situation.
All of you consistently successful guys talk about paying attention to details. Wouldn't this be an important detail? Not getting caught with your pants down in this situation.
Happiness is a large gutpile!!!!!!!
- sbeasley
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Re: ? 4 Dan and other hill experts! Scouting non leeward sides.
Good question Stash. I'm beast scouting for the 2nd winter now. Try to focus on leeward slopes in order to build up an inventory quicker. But I have been hunting long enough to know that you need a couple of east wind options. Even if I spend 90% of my time scouting south and east facing slopes, I still stumble thru some west facing slopes that would apply. Honestly we all probably know of some dynamite setups that will only work on an easterly wind.
Here's my related question: I found a west facing windward slope. The hillside on the other side of the draw has been clear cut some time ago. Thick and nasty. Would you hunt this windward slope on a west wind? Wouldn't the bucks be cruising downwind of the clear cut (which goes all the way to the bottom of the draw). There's lots of rut sign on this west facing windward slope. If you hunted it on an east wind, your scent would blow towards the clear cut and the bucks would be cruising on top of the adjacent ridge which would be downwind for that day.
I think this would be a scenario where you need to hunt the windward slope or hunt it on some angling, OFF wind.
Thoughts?
Here's my related question: I found a west facing windward slope. The hillside on the other side of the draw has been clear cut some time ago. Thick and nasty. Would you hunt this windward slope on a west wind? Wouldn't the bucks be cruising downwind of the clear cut (which goes all the way to the bottom of the draw). There's lots of rut sign on this west facing windward slope. If you hunted it on an east wind, your scent would blow towards the clear cut and the bucks would be cruising on top of the adjacent ridge which would be downwind for that day.
I think this would be a scenario where you need to hunt the windward slope or hunt it on some angling, OFF wind.
Thoughts?
- Dewey
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Re: ? 4 Dan and other hill experts! Scouting non leeward sides.
I'm definitely not an expert but do make sure I take this into consideration when scounting hill country. The sign is much less on the opposite side but it's there if you look for it. Last year was my first time getting serious about the hills and that extra detail paid off for me a number of times with those dreaded east winds. I was glad I planned ahead for it.
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Re: ? 4 Dan and other hill experts! Scouting non leeward sides.
Look at the big picture. Buck travel routes in the rut are between A and B and C usually doe bedding and/or their own bedding. Sometimes that takes them along windward slopes. A majority of time yes they favor leeward slopes but I see enough windward slope travel to recommend not ignoring it.
I see this most often on bluffs where there is no leeward side - just a hillside with a flat on the bottom and on the top. If that windward hillside is the easiest and safest travel route between A and B a buck is gonna use it. He's not going to take a half mile detour....
Interestingly, even on windward slopes I see most movement on the military crest so I am convinced that is used as a sight advantage too. But that varies case by case too. Gotta keep an open mind, approach every situation with general rules of thumb but be open to plenty of exceptions....
Now if we are talking about a long narrow ridge with a leeward and windward side close together - yea I would favor the leeward side most of the time just like Dan talks about in his original hill country bucks DVD. So for a north/south ridge, I would flip sides for an east versus a west wind. There is probably going to be less sign on the west side (leeward for an east wind) just because there are fewer east winds, but when that does happen that's where you want to be probably....all else being equal which it rarely is.
About 10 years ago we got a fall with a ton of east winds, and I just wasn't ready for that. I've made sure I have plenty potential setups for every wind direction ever since. Guys talk about predominant wind - in my opinion that varies so much every year, around here anyway, its just not a good idea to assume you will get a bunch of west winds. Some years its mostly northerly winds. Other years its warm and mostly southerly. Occasionally a bunch of east winds.
I see this most often on bluffs where there is no leeward side - just a hillside with a flat on the bottom and on the top. If that windward hillside is the easiest and safest travel route between A and B a buck is gonna use it. He's not going to take a half mile detour....
Interestingly, even on windward slopes I see most movement on the military crest so I am convinced that is used as a sight advantage too. But that varies case by case too. Gotta keep an open mind, approach every situation with general rules of thumb but be open to plenty of exceptions....
Now if we are talking about a long narrow ridge with a leeward and windward side close together - yea I would favor the leeward side most of the time just like Dan talks about in his original hill country bucks DVD. So for a north/south ridge, I would flip sides for an east versus a west wind. There is probably going to be less sign on the west side (leeward for an east wind) just because there are fewer east winds, but when that does happen that's where you want to be probably....all else being equal which it rarely is.
About 10 years ago we got a fall with a ton of east winds, and I just wasn't ready for that. I've made sure I have plenty potential setups for every wind direction ever since. Guys talk about predominant wind - in my opinion that varies so much every year, around here anyway, its just not a good idea to assume you will get a bunch of west winds. Some years its mostly northerly winds. Other years its warm and mostly southerly. Occasionally a bunch of east winds.
- flinginairos
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Re: ? 4 Dan and other hill experts! Scouting non leeward sides.
In for answers on this. Been wondering the same thing myself.
- stash59
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Re: ? 4 Dan and other hill experts! Scouting non leeward sides.
Makes sense!! After I hit the submit que I realized it also applies to swamp, marshes well anywhere. So taking the time to check those great looking spots on the wrong side of the marsh may just pay off too. Huh?
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Re: ? 4 Dan and other hill experts! Scouting non leeward sides.
As far as bedding goes on odd winds, I have mentioned many times to pay attention most to great bedding areas that are in close proximity to other spots that could cover every wind direction. In other words, they don't move out to the middle of a ridge that could only be used on an east wind on one of 5 days in the year when its east... They bed that east wind slope near to where they bed on a N/W common wind, but where it works for east.
- stash59
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Re: ? 4 Dan and other hill experts! Scouting non leeward sides.
So more than likely on a military crest rather than on a bench right in the middle.
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- <DK>
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Re: ? 4 Dan and other hill experts! Scouting non leeward sides.
In hill country it can be very tough to find fresh beds for all winds. Like Dan touched on, generally speaking a good bedding area should have those off wind beds and they may not be noticeable. I have had great luck finding what I need by picking good ridges for main x2 dominant winds, away from access, and also has multiple options for wind shifts mid day or its at least over on the next ridge across the creek. Some of the best spots cant be found on the map every time, that's why 1-2ft contours are awesome. I think its terrain/region specific, but When I find that core area, I usually find the other beds. Getting on your knees and looking for hair is key! A buck could have a nice worn in bed that is only specific for 1-2 similar winds, I have found a few for sure. Most were not planned to find. It's insane how in tune the are w the wind and weather. How in the morning the wind and thermals are dicey, and not what the wind is supposed to be for the day quite yet. But that buck comes in the dark, and the wind starts being consistent for that bed once the starts starts rising. Then he decides if it's worth moving for the wind shif . Sometimes depending on time of day, he may not chance it
Last edited by <DK> on Fri Feb 24, 2017 1:56 pm, edited 4 times in total.
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Re: ? 4 Dan and other hill experts! Scouting non leeward sides.
This is a spot im having some issues w but i did find these and this is wjat i think is happening.
Here is a bed for NW, one of my dominant winds for the year. I had to look very closely, found x2 hairs and I moved those leaves where you can see dirt.
Here is a E wind bed, which I have had of late. Found this one, then the NW. I would expect these beds to be reversed in being noticeable this fall.
This ridge did not hold a true W wind bed, but the ridge across the way did hold the W AND S beds w tracks connecting the 2.
Here is a bed for NW, one of my dominant winds for the year. I had to look very closely, found x2 hairs and I moved those leaves where you can see dirt.
Here is a E wind bed, which I have had of late. Found this one, then the NW. I would expect these beds to be reversed in being noticeable this fall.
This ridge did not hold a true W wind bed, but the ridge across the way did hold the W AND S beds w tracks connecting the 2.
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Re: ? 4 Dan and other hill experts! Scouting non leeward sides.
Not claiming to be an expert in hill country but that is all I've hunted. When it comes to bedding I absolutely see the bucks using the leeward side. As for travel I've seen bucks on both sides. Have actually killed several on the windward side in early season and during the cruising phase so yeah I don't rule either side out for a kill tree. All things being equal I would favor the leeward side but often times they are not in the woods. I see more hunting pressure favoring the leeward side simply cause it holds more sign. Older deer will pick up on that pressure and use the windward side. Have seen it first hand so it really all depends on the situation.
- Divergent
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Re: ? 4 Dan and other hill experts! Scouting non leeward sides.
I always scout an entire area. I like to see the big picture. Sometimes you won't know why you're not finding that bed on the leeward side until you jump over to the windward side and find a stand etc.
In early season, the temps are warmer and the winds are more Southerly. I find a lot of value in S wind bedding.
The North facing slope can be 10 degrees cooler than a South facing slope in the summer. I always hear about late season setups on south facing slopes. I rarely hear anyone focus on North facing slopes in early season, but I've found just as many beds.
I'd like to know if deer would prefer a cooler/warmer side bed over a wind based bed due to temp regulation. Or, if they would prefer to keep the wind advantage and maybe drop in elevation. Any thoughts?
In early season, the temps are warmer and the winds are more Southerly. I find a lot of value in S wind bedding.
The North facing slope can be 10 degrees cooler than a South facing slope in the summer. I always hear about late season setups on south facing slopes. I rarely hear anyone focus on North facing slopes in early season, but I've found just as many beds.
I'd like to know if deer would prefer a cooler/warmer side bed over a wind based bed due to temp regulation. Or, if they would prefer to keep the wind advantage and maybe drop in elevation. Any thoughts?
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Re: ? 4 Dan and other hill experts! Scouting non leeward sides.
every side of a hill is a leeward side...at some point. the wind can blow in any direction. so you should know the entire area. but most areas the hills don't have all sides so you would have to cross the valley and hunt the other side . my land has a n/w running ridge but it has a big deep winding ravine that cuts through that runs e/w that deer also bed off of so now there are multiple winds the deer can be using. I never pick a spot for a predominant wind I find the spot then hunt it when the wind is correct.
- stash59
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Re: ? 4 Dan and other hill experts! Scouting non leeward sides.
Divergent wrote:I always scout an entire area. I like to see the big picture. Sometimes you won't know why you're not finding that bed on the leeward side until you jump over to the windward side and find a stand etc.
In early season, the temps are warmer and the winds are more Southerly. I find a lot of value in S wind bedding.
The North facing slope can be 10 degrees cooler than a South facing slope in the summer. I always hear about late season setups on south facing slopes. I rarely hear anyone focus on North facing slopes in early season, but I've found just as many beds.
I'd like to know if deer would prefer a cooler/warmer side bed over a wind based bed due to temp regulation. Or, if they would prefer to keep the wind advantage and maybe drop in elevation. Any thoughts?
I would bet it matters some. Elk are always bedding on the cooler out of the sun areas. N-E facing slopes.
Happiness is a large gutpile!!!!!!!
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