AG bucks VS Browse bucks
- john1984
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AG bucks VS Browse bucks
I think ALOT of hunters may see a picture of a buck and just judge the age of that buck on its rack score rather than the bucks DIET.
Is a 100 inch buck that has EASY close access to corn,soybeans,clover,alfalfa, food plots going to generally be the SAME age as a 100 inch buck that has no easy close access to cash crops, clover, alfalfa
food plots???
What if that 100 inch bucks bedroom is anywhere between 3 and 6 miles from cash crops????
Is that 100 inch "BROWSE" buck going to be the same age as the 100 inch AG buck AKA farmland buck??
Do you think some people judge a bucks age prematurely just on the score of its rack????
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Is a 100 inch buck that has EASY close access to corn,soybeans,clover,alfalfa, food plots going to generally be the SAME age as a 100 inch buck that has no easy close access to cash crops, clover, alfalfa
food plots???
What if that 100 inch bucks bedroom is anywhere between 3 and 6 miles from cash crops????
Is that 100 inch "BROWSE" buck going to be the same age as the 100 inch AG buck AKA farmland buck??
Do you think some people judge a bucks age prematurely just on the score of its rack????
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- oldrank
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Re: AG bucks VS Browse bucks
Our farmland bucks are larger bodied and larger racked than our stateland bucks in my area. The state land buck would browse alot more on woodland vegetation. A farmland 1.5 could be a 60-70" 6-8 point. On the public I hunt most 1.5s struggle to not be scrubby 4 points. 2.5s dont step up much n seldom break 100". They seem to catch up around 3.5 to the farmland bucks.
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- john1984
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- Hawthorne
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Re: AG bucks VS Browse bucks
I know yearling and 2.5s in our farm belt of southern mi will be bigger racked and bodied than our northern big woods deer. I hunt farm ground and have shot quite a few yearling 8s and one was a nine. Pretty sure the 8 I shot this year was a yearling. I shot s 2.5 year old 10 point one year that grossed 119. Like oldrank said I think the browse bucks will catch up to the farm bucks at maturity
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- headgear
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Re: AG bucks VS Browse bucks
I only hunt bigwoods but it is easy to see the difference, the 2 year olds are downright small up here most of the time. Generally 80 to 90 inches is the norm, sometimes the 3 year olds come in 100 inches or less. My jaw drops when I see some of the two year olds shot in other areas. With that said I have shot some younger deer that had the genes and grew some extra bone but they are not as common as a large bodied stunted rack deer. The winters can also play a roll in the stunting of racks, some years all the bucks will have short spikes and small tines. Throw a mind winter at them and suddenly everything adds inches and mass.
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Re: AG bucks VS Browse bucks
Another factor could be heavy mast years. I'm guessing a heavy mast year and mild winter would equate to better growth the following year.
Lots of guys in PA like to talk about "a nice mountain buck". I hunt the farmland and the bigger woods of PA and don't see the drastic difference. Hunting the northern lower of Michigan on the lakeshore...it was real. I was shocked to find out a 14" 8 might be 3 or 4 years old. Here in PA that's a nice 2 year old.
I do think maturity has something to play into it...look at some of the big woods bucks. Big heavy horned true slobs.
Antlers don't always tell the true story.
A guy i worked with raises few deer. The inches he could put on bucks was crazy. He had one at like 190" and it was a 2 or 3yo. I think he was in the 160s at 2 and in the 190s at 3 off the top of my head. I know the inches were mind boggling compared to wild deer.
Really got me wondering if you could do that to wild deer with feeding and minerals and such....I know his deer have big dollar genes and all that. I don't know...itd be costly to truly FEED wild deer because you aren't just feeding a couple deer..and you aren't likely just feeding deer either lol.
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Lots of guys in PA like to talk about "a nice mountain buck". I hunt the farmland and the bigger woods of PA and don't see the drastic difference. Hunting the northern lower of Michigan on the lakeshore...it was real. I was shocked to find out a 14" 8 might be 3 or 4 years old. Here in PA that's a nice 2 year old.
I do think maturity has something to play into it...look at some of the big woods bucks. Big heavy horned true slobs.
Antlers don't always tell the true story.
A guy i worked with raises few deer. The inches he could put on bucks was crazy. He had one at like 190" and it was a 2 or 3yo. I think he was in the 160s at 2 and in the 190s at 3 off the top of my head. I know the inches were mind boggling compared to wild deer.
Really got me wondering if you could do that to wild deer with feeding and minerals and such....I know his deer have big dollar genes and all that. I don't know...itd be costly to truly FEED wild deer because you aren't just feeding a couple deer..and you aren't likely just feeding deer either lol.
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- Jonny
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Re: AG bucks VS Browse bucks
I always relate antler size to genetics first, then the quality of the food the deer eat during the summer. I had a buddy shoot a confirmed 4 yo spike. 4 inch spikes. Everybody would assume it was a year old buck but with a dressed weight of over 200lbs its an old deer. That is genetics. I gun hunted in the same area the last couple of years, shot a beautiful 2.5 yo 9 point and a 2.5 yo 6 point. Both weighed 125lbs dressed. The difference in these deer could be genetics, but this area got hammered by logging over the last few years and I think nutrition played a big part in the difference in antler quality
Identical size deer shot maybe a half mile from each other. The 9 point was 2012 and the 6 was from this year. The noticeable difference was in that time frame, all the hardwoods within 5 miles in any direction got clear cut and taken out. Genetics could easily play a difference, but I really think the 6 could have grown some more if he had better food during the year.
Identical size deer shot maybe a half mile from each other. The 9 point was 2012 and the 6 was from this year. The noticeable difference was in that time frame, all the hardwoods within 5 miles in any direction got clear cut and taken out. Genetics could easily play a difference, but I really think the 6 could have grown some more if he had better food during the year.
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- Southern Man
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Re: AG bucks VS Browse bucks
I read once that nutrition goes to the body first, antlers last. That's pretty easy to see if you have access to areas with lots of food vs areas of not much food. I live in farm land for the most part and the deer numbers are high, healthy deer, and lots of food. Less than 40 miles away is an area of public land (85000 acres) of wooded hills, not much crops at all, and surrounded by water. The deer numbers are quite a bit less and the horns less than the same age class as the farm ground all around it. There's no question it makes a difference, but at the same time I think think that's the only difference either.
But, when the bucks reach maturity on that public land, they seem to blow up with the head gear and easily rival the mature bucks in the farm country. There are some real brutes over there.
But, when the bucks reach maturity on that public land, they seem to blow up with the head gear and easily rival the mature bucks in the farm country. There are some real brutes over there.
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Re: AG bucks VS Browse bucks
Just some food for thought I read a study a few years back that stated that regardless of location be it farmland or bigger woods/swamp a deer's diet only consists of about 13% crops such as beans, corn, alfalfa ect. The rest is browse. The point was it had a lot less effect on antler size than what was thought, the big factor was food being readily available be it crops or browse.And of course genetics.
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Re: AG bucks VS Browse bucks
Another one I wanted to add is a recent study that I haven't had the chance to read entirely but the summary of it was to debunk the October lull. The bases of it was that deer actually steadily increase there movement through the fall being at it's highest throughout the rut. However those movements shifted in early October from using crop fields to seeking out more woody browse giving the illusion to most that there is a lull.
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Re: AG bucks VS Browse bucks
Another one I wanted to add is a recent study that I haven't had the chance to read entirely but the summary of it was to debunk the October lull. The bases of it was that deer actually steadily increase there movement through the fall being at it's highest throughout the rut. However those movements shifted in early October from using crop fields to seeking out more woody browse giving the illusion to most that there is a lull.
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- headgear
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Re: AG bucks VS Browse bucks
mauser06 wrote:Another factor could be heavy mast years. I'm guessing a heavy mast year and mild winter would equate to better growth the following year.
Oaks and other mast can support a lot of life, I hunt an area that is pretty much void of oak trees save for a rare one here and there. Basically I see double or triple the deer and other animals in oak regions than those places without oaks. You have to get pretty far north to get away from the oaks but it's a different world that is for sure. Still plenty of food around but the wildlife populations (all species) seem to be much lower. I'm sure the harsh winters play a roll with the numbers as well.
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Re: AG bucks VS Browse bucks
I think this is a recipe for a really good chicken or egg conversation. Like it's been said before is a 2.5 120 in southern Wisconsin a "better" deer than a 3.5 100" in northern Wisconsin? What about a deer on a property with food plots is a 120" as hard to kill there as it is in public big woods? They're not all created equal we're not on a level playing field. When I lived in sw Washington guys would cut the head off a dinky 3x3 blacktail and bring it to work, just giddy to show it off, even here in northern Michigan that's not a bragger. But in sw Washington that was a noteworthy deer.
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- SamPotter
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Re: AG bucks VS Browse bucks
It's really difficult to compare apples to apples when looking at farm land bucks vs big woods buck. They are pretty much different subspecies genetically. The big woods bucks just don't have the wide, sweeping racks with tall tines that you see on some farm land bucks. Why? Because they wouldn't be able to get through the woods without getting tangled up. The big woods bucks I'm familiar with generally have shorter tines, a narrower spread, and more mass throughout. They still get quite big, just maybe not as consistently big as farm land bucks, but genetics plays a major role, not just nutrition.
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Re: AG bucks VS Browse bucks
I think it has more to do with genetics than diet... Diet has some impact, but not as much as people think. As a matter of fact, corn is a horrible food for deer by itself. Deer need browse, and eat browse more than crops even in big farm areas.
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