Broadhead?

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JoeRE
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Re: Broadhead?

Unread postby JoeRE » Fri Dec 02, 2016 6:50 am

Yes starting with a relatively light and stiff shaft is way begin building a high penetrating setup.

When I was a kid, I shot aluminum 2219s with 125 grain fixed blade heads of various kinds. Although my arrows were always over 500 grains, I rarely got a complete pass through on all the does and little bucks I shot for several reasons. One, I didn't tune my bow very well and that KILLS your penetration. Two, my FOC wasn't very high because more of the weight was just in the shaft...even though my overall momentum was a bit higher than what I shoot now. Three, the heads I used were usually pretty crappy, ferrules bent easily that sort of thing.

Now I almost always slice right through the bigger bucks I shoot because I fixed all the above issues. Also two elk.

Mauser, I really think a lot of the issues you had with those two hits are due to hitting heavy bone with those steep cutting angle blades on the grizztrick. If you just switched to something like the vipertrick I think you would see a big improvement in penetration when you hit big bone.

You can switch to a 2 blade head if you want but I personally would keep bleeder blades on it. I like the holes I get with my 150 grain mangus heads with the bleeder blades. I know Dr. Ashby really likes his single bevel 2 blades to get every inch of penetration he can but a whitetail is nothing compared to a water buffalo. Some deer are really fat and I just don't see a thin 2-blade hole staying open very well w/o bleeders in that situation, even single bevel. I remember those little half moon holes in the photos of his reports. Also a gut hit I would want cutting in all directions to cut as much tissue as I can.

Keep those blade angles low and I am certain you can push a 4 blade all the way through a big buck from almost any angle with your high FOC & momentum setup. That is what I think I can do with my setup and yours is slightly higher FOC and arrow weight. The only big difference between our arrows we currently shoot is you have a flat bladed hatchet on the end of your arrow and I have a spear. Which goes deeper with the same "push"?

I agree there are so many variables out there, there's no perfect setup. If I KNEW I was going to shoot a deer dead center in the guts I would screw on what I use for turkeys - a 2-3/4" mechanical :lol:


mauser06
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Re: Broadhead?

Unread postby mauser06 » Fri Dec 02, 2016 7:37 am

Joe, you're right on.


I'm in the same boat. If I knew I'd smack the chest or guts I'd stick with the grizztricks or even go to something bigger lol.


First one hit high was actually a regular ole 100gr Muzzy 3 blade. That setup was horrible. Light light arrow. No FOC. Not much energy or momentum. Weak shaft. Barely got the broadhead in....


Weak broadheads and blades are another downfall. Curling tips, bending ferrules, blades bending and snapping, all really hurt penetration as well...


Lots of variables. Lots. And it's hard to get a happy medium.

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ThePreBanMan
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Re: Broadhead?

Unread postby ThePreBanMan » Fri Dec 02, 2016 7:56 am

briar wrote:As far as Easton arrows go, they make the best arrow every made imo.......the ACC. Now you want to talk a slim and TOUGH arrow...wow. They are for sure pricey but a dozen lasts forever and they are very uniform. Good luck with whatever you choose.



Too heavy. Need a lighter shaft so I can put the weight up front. I want to be around that 19% FOC mark. Also don't like that all the components have to be purchased separately. I like that there's a lot of spine options though. Just doesn't fit what I'm after.
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Re: Broadhead?

Unread postby briar » Fri Dec 02, 2016 8:40 am

ThePreBanMan wrote:
briar wrote:As far as Easton arrows go, they make the best arrow every made imo.......the ACC. Now you want to talk a slim and TOUGH arrow...wow. They are for sure pricey but a dozen lasts forever and they are very uniform. Good luck with whatever you choose.



Too heavy. Need a lighter shaft so I can put the weight up front. I want to be around that 19% FOC mark. Also don't like that all the components have to be purchased separately. I like that there's a lot of spine options though. Just doesn't fit what I'm after.


I understand. My current setup is probably too light for big Midwest #250 deer, but here with my #175 it works pretty good. I shoot a 27.75 inch HEXX with SK300 vanes and X nocks and a 50 grain brass insert. I have it tipped with a 100 grain woodsman elite. Its a long narrow head and the setup gives me about 15% FOC on a 385 grain arrow out of my #51 spyder it gets about 260 FPS. I have tried going heavier up front but as I went to 125 heads and around 17% I didn't like my flight, but maybe that's just me.

If I could handle the bigger poundage bows I would love to, but that light draw made me a more accurate shooter in all conditions and clothing situations.
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huntinsonovagun
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Re: Broadhead?

Unread postby huntinsonovagun » Fri Dec 02, 2016 9:27 am

I'm concerned about getting an arrow with enough spine. I've got a 29 1/4" arrow and I'm not sure a .300 spine would be ample to handle ~200 grains up front. Currently I'm shooting 64 lbs with a .340 spine and 100 grain heads. The arrow charts show I'm marginal, but I wonder now if that's why I've been having some tuning issues. Since I'm borderline, I think there's a chance I may be underspined, even with a low FOC of about 10%.....

Oh yeah, that current arrow weighs 390gr. I'd really like to be closer to 500gr o think

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mauser06
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Re: Broadhead?

Unread postby mauser06 » Fri Dec 02, 2016 9:59 am

My 300 spine is barely enough for 220gr on a 27 1/4" arrow with a 29" draw somewhere around 65lbs.


Victory makes 250 spine which is stiffer than the 300. With a longer shaft you may need it.


I might go to 150gr heads so I will have 245gr up from and like 530-540gr finished with an FOC well over 20%. My spine is just stiff enough I had trouble tuning it out. But I did get it after a while.


They fly like darts. The flight is awesome. Very forgiving and take wind and I found out even brush better than previous arrows.


I shot a grey fox the last evening I hunted. Tracked it and recovered it and was surprised I missed my mark..it was just getting dark..

Went back and recovered my arrow. I could see the fox clear as day. I couldn't see the full out bush right infront of it. I shot right through it. No doubt it threw my arrow off a bit. But I think the high FOC kept it on track enough to make the hit. I've hit a tiny twig with another arrow..just the vane hit and that arrow fell from the air and missed my a mile. I have little doubt the FOC helped there. No telling how much of that bush I hit...it was big and thick..no "hole" I could have snaked through. Gray light and I never seen it infront of the fox..

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Ol'DanBoone
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Re: Broadhead?

Unread postby Ol'DanBoone » Fri Dec 02, 2016 11:14 am

briar wrote:As far as Easton arrows go, they make the best arrow every made imo.......the ACC. Now you want to talk a slim and TOUGH arrow...wow. They are for sure pricey but a dozen lasts forever and they are very uniform. Good luck with whatever you choose.


No doubt. Ive shot several sets of carbon express out of various recurves and longbows. The heritage shafts in particular are fickle, unforgiving SOBs. Ive NEVER shot a easton shaft that was forgiving and flew like a dart.

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mag1
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Re: Broadhead?

Unread postby mag1 » Fri Dec 02, 2016 2:45 pm

If you foot your arrows, make sure that they are beyond your rest, might need a longer arrow length. Here are some threads of a guy from AT. There is some of the bashers on it as well, but it will give u an idea of what you can do, along with some light weight shafts, but stiff.

Here are a couple of heavy arrow build threads with footings. There is the typical back and forth that is on AT.

A hunting arrow that Dr. Ashby would be proud of...
http://www.archerytalk.com/vb/showthread.php?t=1685182

Henro/Ashby Elk Arrow Build
http://www.archerytalk.com/vb/showthread.php?t=2251780

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mag1
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Re: Broadhead?

Unread postby mag1 » Mon Dec 05, 2016 6:48 am

If you want to do some footers, here is some info. I put together when trying to figure out sizes. There is an example in it. Hope it helps any interested in figuring out sizing.

Image

.....Not sure if there is a way to make that image bigger. IF there is a way to attach an excel spreadsheet, I can do so, just let me know how to attach one.
wmihunter
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Re: Broadhead?

Unread postby wmihunter » Sat Dec 10, 2016 2:28 pm

i lost a good buck due to a shoulder hit on nov 9. i am planning on switching to a 2 blade like the helix. i am going for about 20% FOC and 450 grain arrow for my 27" draw 60# setup. i will lose some speed but i am hopeful that next time i will be able to penetrate all but the knuckle of the shoulder bone if my shot goes awry. the single bevel bone split looks wicked.
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traprock
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Re: Broadhead?

Unread postby traprock » Sun Dec 11, 2016 5:24 pm

Bear razorheads with out the bleeder blade haven't lost a deer yet. 125g. pass thru's all the time. can't beat a pass thru blood trail.
shot my first deer with them 25 years ago resharpen and make sure they still fly straight.


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