What if MN firearms hunt did,nt fall during rut

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Swampthing
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What if MN firearms hunt did,nt fall during rut

Unread postby Swampthing » Mon Dec 27, 2010 4:45 pm

I,m wondering how different BUCK hunting would or Could be if the DNR would wake up and change the firearm season so it did,nt fall in the heart of the rut. If you look at statewide trends MN was # 1 in the 50's, 60's ,70's 80's and dropped to # 9 in the 90's and is# 10 now in the 2000's .How much further can we go .


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Re: What if MN firearms hunt did,nt fall during rut

Unread postby Swampthing » Mon Dec 27, 2010 5:10 pm

One thing that really bothers me is the fact that when you buy a license it is for a Buck and you have to apply for a doe tag .They need earn a buck or something times are changing and MN needs to also.
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Re: What if MN firearms hunt did,nt fall during rut

Unread postby BackWoodsHunter » Mon Dec 27, 2010 6:00 pm

:shock: The last thing you want is earn a buck...sure it's helped a HANDFUL of bucks grow to get bigger because guys are forced to pass some younger bucks while waiting for a doe but in the long run our deer herd in WI is taking a beating...earn a buck is miserable
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Re: What if MN firearms hunt did,nt fall during rut

Unread postby dan » Mon Dec 27, 2010 10:15 pm

X2 EAB Will make things even worse.
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Re: What if MN firearms hunt did,nt fall during rut

Unread postby Schultzy » Tue Dec 28, 2010 12:14 am

Swampthing wrote:I,m wondering how different BUCK hunting would or Could be if the DNR would wake up and change the firearm season so it did,nt fall in the heart of the rut. If you look at statewide trends MN was # 1 in the 50's, 60's ,70's 80's and dropped to # 9 in the 90's and is# 10 now in the 2000's .How much further can we go .
It's damn frustrating! Mn has the genetics that's for sure, just no age to these bucks. I can't remember where I read It but Mn shoots the highest percentage of 1.5 year old bucks then any other state In the USA. Just by moving the season back 10 days would save allot of young bucks. Problem Is Mn doesn't have enough bowhunters to push for stuff like this, Mn Is pretty much a gun hunting state. The Minnesota Deer Hunters Association has their hands In the pockets of the Mn DNR I believe. It will never happen.
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Re: What if MN firearms hunt did,nt fall during rut

Unread postby hunt n nut » Tue Dec 28, 2010 12:20 am

Yep, you don't want EAB for sure. It does save a few older bucks, but the nubbers take a beating and then in a few years your wondering where all your bucks are?

Every time they start talkin' about making our gun season earlier and longer, I get the heebee geebee's!
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Re: What if MN firearms hunt did,nt fall during rut

Unread postby Tadmdad » Tue Dec 28, 2010 1:25 am

Swampthing wrote:I,m wondering how different BUCK hunting would or Could be if the DNR would wake up and change the firearm season so it did,nt fall in the heart of the rut. If you look at statewide trends MN was # 1 in the 50's, 60's ,70's 80's and dropped to # 9 in the 90's and is# 10 now in the 2000's .How much further can we go .


It could help, several states have there season's after the rut. Are you sure that the stat's represent the decline of the hunting in MN, or the rise of other states like IA,IL,KA,NE,MO,KY? Back in the 60's and 70's you never heard of big deer coming from these states, everybody went "up north" deer hunting. That certainly has changed over the years, along with the management tactics used today to "grow the hunt". It would only stand to reason that many of the states, with low hunting pressure, no winter kill, virtually unlimited food supply, and no large predators would pass MN in the statistics.
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Re: What if MN firearms hunt did,nt fall during rut

Unread postby headgear » Tue Dec 28, 2010 3:39 am

Lots of "what ifs" in MN that is for sure. Like Schultzy said we have the genes we just need to let some of those buck grow up a little.
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Re: What if MN firearms hunt did,nt fall during rut

Unread postby bowhunter15 » Tue Dec 28, 2010 4:11 am

What if MN firearms hunt did,nt fall during rut


Then I would buy a gun license. I hunt in an archery only area for the rut, so buying a gun license for that same time frame is worthless. Plus you can only tag one buck, regardless of how many seasons you have tags for, unlike WI.

What I wish they would do, is put an antler point restriction in the whole state. The 300 section has a 4 point on one side minimum for bucks. I think this is honestly the best thing to do if they want to start seeing and harvesting more mature bucks.
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Re: What if MN firearms hunt did,nt fall during rut

Unread postby dan » Tue Dec 28, 2010 12:26 pm

What I wish they would do, is put an antler point restriction in the whole state. The 300 section has a 4 point on one side minimum for bucks. I think this is honestly the best thing to do if they want to start seeing and harvesting more mature bucks.

Careful what you wish for... Antler restrictions mean that people shoot all the good gene 1 1/2 year old bucks with 8 point or better racks leaving the genetically inferior bucks to do the breeding. It also means very poor genetics like bucks that never get past 6 points breed for many years because they are safe. Even in herds with great genetics you see the occasional mature 6 point. I filmed a P&Y 6 point in the marsh near my home about 4 years ago... I once saw a huge old buck that was over 20 wide that only had 4 points...

The best way to cure the problem with people shooting to many young bucks is to educate the people. Right now we are doing the opposite. The DNR wants to promote "every deer is a trophy" and a fawn is something to be proud of... Hogwash.
I hunted a public property in Illinois once where you had to stop at an office and talk with a DNR rep. before you could hunt. He showed me sets of shed antlers picked up off the property and explained the age classes and why young deer should be passed. He said if your here for meat, shoot a doe ( a free doe tag was provided ) he said if you have never taken a buck, or its your biggest go ahead, but if you are an experienced deer hunter, please let the little bucks grow up... Had I shot a deer, I would of had to take it back to that same guy to register it.
That was the best public plan I ever seen. And that property was full of big bucks
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Re: What if MN firearms hunt did,nt fall during rut

Unread postby Swampthing » Tue Dec 28, 2010 1:07 pm

Tadmdad wrote:
Swampthing wrote:I,m wondering how different BUCK hunting would or Could be if the DNR would wake up and change the firearm season so it did,nt fall in the heart of the rut. If you look at statewide trends MN was # 1 in the 50's, 60's ,70's 80's and dropped to # 9 in the 90's and is# 10 now in the 2000's .How much further can we go .


It could help, several states have there season's after the rut. Are you sure that the stat's represent the decline of the hunting in MN, or the rise of other states like IA,IL,KA,NE,MO,KY? Back in the 60's and 70's you never heard of big deer coming from these states, everybody went "up north" deer hunting. That certainly has changed over the years, along with the management tactics used today to "grow the hunt". It would only stand to reason that many of the states, with low hunting pressure, no winter kill, virtually unlimited food supply, and no large predators would pass MN in the statistics.


Your right Mn has had increases in the last 5 decades,but not to the extent of other states .MN increase last decade was i think 7 or 8 % but along side other states that had increases of 50 to over 100% their kinda gettin left in the dust.
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Re: What if MN firearms hunt did,nt fall during rut

Unread postby Autumn Ninja » Tue Dec 28, 2010 2:23 pm

dan wrote: Careful what you wish for... Antler restrictions mean that people shoot all the good gene 1 1/2 year old bucks with 8 point or better racks leaving the genetically inferior bucks to do the breeding. It also means very poor genetics like bucks that never get past 6 points breed for many years because they are safe. Even in herds with great genetics you see the occasional mature 6 point. I filmed a P&Y 6 point in the marsh near my home about 4 years ago... I once saw a huge old buck that was over 20 wide that only had 4 points...

Point AR's are a very bad idea...all the nice 1 1/2 and 2 1/2 get taken out, then the genetically inferior move on to grow old and breed.

I've been watching an area that has had a 15" spread AR for 10 years now and it has work awesome!!! 95% of all 1 1/2's walk and over 75% of the 2 1/2's walk because there borderline.

Its amazing how well the spread AR works...I love it!!! Some guys will say..that it cant work, how do you know if a buck is 15"s wide or not. Its either a big buck or its not, if theres any doubt don't shot and it grows another year, its that simple.
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Re: What if MN firearms hunt did,nt fall during rut

Unread postby Casper » Tue Dec 28, 2010 3:55 pm

SE Minn is already one of the best area's in the world to hunt Whities... no rut shotgun season.... best area in my opinion.
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Re: What if MN firearms hunt did,nt fall during rut

Unread postby bowhunter15 » Wed Dec 29, 2010 5:01 am

Its amazing how well the spread AR works...I love it!!! Some guys will say..that it cant work, how do you know if a buck is 15"s wide or not. Its either a big buck or its not, if theres any doubt don't shot and it grows another year, its that simple


I had never heard of a spread AR before. This does seem like a much better idea than a point AR. I just never thought they would ever pass something like that because like you said there are "borderline" decisions. Was there a penalty if someone shot a buck with only a 14 3/4" spread?

I hunted a public property in Illinois once where you had to stop at an office and talk with a DNR rep. before you could hunt.


I think this would obviously be ideal. My guess is that it would be very hard if not impossible to implement across a whole state.
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Re: What if MN firearms hunt did,nt fall during rut

Unread postby dan » Wed Dec 29, 2010 5:52 am

I hunted a public property in Illinois once where you had to stop at an office and talk with a DNR rep. before you could hunt.


I think this would obviously be ideal. My guess is that it would be very hard if not impossible to implement across a whole state.

I don't think the entire concept coulsd be grasped statewide, it would cost to much to have personell at each public area... However, a stance taken by the DNR office to educate hunters and actually promote managment that allows some deer to grow while explaining the age class differences would do wonders in a state where the policy has always been to manage soley on numbers of deer killed...
How well do you think the musky or walleye fishing would be if there wherte no size restrictions and the DNR promoted "Every musky is a trophy" and guys killed there limit when ever they fished? There is a reason we practice managment with walleyes, that same reason should be implimented into deer hunting. Shooting a 1 year old buck is like keeping a 10 inch walleye. That 1st 10 inch walleye you ever caught is probably a trophy in your eyes, but if you saw a guy catch stinger after stringer full of them on your favorite lake it would probably irritate you.


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