Ethical Decisions - an internal struggle? Should it be?

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woodswalker
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Re: Ethical Decisions - an internal struggle? Should it be?

Unread postby woodswalker » Sat Sep 10, 2016 10:01 am

I believe most of the infomercial deer hunting shows not only paint a bad picture of hunting but also an unrealistic picture of deer hunting. That is why I haven't watched them for several years. These used car salesmen have someone else scout for them bait the site and erect the stand. They then show up and pick the deer they were told was there, whoop, holler and fist pump like a juvenile idiot as though they really accomplished something. They also hunt in places most people could not begin to afford to hunt, it it can be called that.


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Re: Ethical Decisions - an internal struggle? Should it be?

Unread postby PK_ » Sat Sep 10, 2016 10:08 am

I used to have an elaborate scent control regime, I tried to use a buch of trail cams a couple years ago. I used to carry every deer call on the market into the woods. I slowly started to realize that trying to use all of the technology available to me was more work than just picking up a weapon, putting my nose into the wind and going for a hunt. And honestly my success has been as good if not better.

I do use aerial maps extensively when hunting new areas and I would say that and a rangefinder while bowhunting are my two biggest technology 'crutches'.

I do think the drones cross a lot of lines. But I have to admit, I have thought about how handy they could be to check secluded mast/fruit trees to see if they are producing that year… I don't think using them in the off season to scout around is a huge violation of ethics, but using them during season to find game or anything like would definitely not be cool. IMO.
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Re: Ethical Decisions - an internal struggle? Should it be?

Unread postby jwilkstn » Sat Sep 10, 2016 4:02 pm

Some great points made already..
I agree that we as humans, with our weak and fragile bodies, MUST rely on our brains to successfully take wild game. Historically, a big part of our advantage has been through technological advancement. In recent years, however, those advancements have come further and faster than ever imagined at the time of the conservation movement 100+ years ago.
I think alot of our own personal opinions on what is ethical vs isn't has to do with our unique experiences. Personally,I am torn on the wireless trail cams. I want them because I see the obvious benefits, and I know that used in the ways I would utilize them they would offer only marginal benefit over traditional cameras,however I can imagine scenarios that would certainly provide unfair and IMO unethical advantages to us. Drones are pretty cut and dry I think. I don't see any place for them in hunting or scouting, although I admit they provide some really cool filming shots.
Other items not previously mentioned that I support include lighted nocks, thermacells, and advanced clothing. Basically if the item keeps you afield longer, more comfortably, or makes you more lethal once you've earned a shot opportunity then I'm good with it.

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Re: Ethical Decisions - an internal struggle? Should it be?

Unread postby Findian » Sat Sep 10, 2016 4:06 pm

On the issue with cell cams I believe that they should have a least a 24hr pic delay being sent to your phone.

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Re: Ethical Decisions - an internal struggle? Should it be?

Unread postby DeerDylan » Sat Sep 10, 2016 11:57 pm

JoeRE wrote:Dave I certainly know where you are coming from. I suspect these misgivings would be strongest among hunters who have been able to see the change over several decades. For newer hunters, what we have now is what they have always known. I am an oddball because I am not that old, but have a unique background where I started very simply by necessity. There was no money for gadgets.

The way I look at it, any single technological leap is pretty easy to justify. I also hate the idea of knee-jerk "bans" on most things. We already have great steaming heaps of useless governmental regulations. However my real concerns lie in the fact when all these technology aids are added together, what are we loosing in return. What is the solution? I will be brutally honest and say there probably is not one. History proves those of us that whine about progress just get steam rolled....

We can start with weapons, that has the most impact on success. This will never happen because it would cause an uproar, but I would be in favor of redistributing hunting seasons to more accurately reflect level of difficulty in using that weapon. There should be incentives such as longer seasons for TRUE primitive weapons such as traditional archery equipment and flintlock muzzleloaders. I have heard rumors of some states considering this but probably just rumors. Lets let traditional archers hunt all of September here in Iowa, and flintlock muzzleloaders more into January. That would be a nice incentive.

The modern in-line scoped muzzleloader, crossbow, or even compound bow are not "primitive" weapons. I know my muzzleloader, throwing a projectile at around 2,300 fps and capable of MOA accuracy is really just a single shot rifle. Same with my modern compound bow. Just getting into using a recurve and the level of additional skill required is very apparent. This sure would make my muzzleloader and bow seasons a lot more challenging but I would happily do it in exchange for more generous seasons. My god would the lynch mobs form over that though. Probably angered a bunch of people on here just by bringing it up, sorry :lol:


I agree with all of this.

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Re: Ethical Decisions - an internal struggle? Should it be?

Unread postby vermonthunter16 » Sun Sep 11, 2016 12:16 am

I never heard of the internet hunting! I just looked it up, way too far into the ethical dilemma! But when it comes to crossbows, VT just made it legal for anyone over the age of 55 to use. This I completely agree with, a lot of guys can't pull back a bow anymore after a certain age.
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Re: Ethical Decisions - an internal struggle? Should it be?

Unread postby Jrichard » Sun Sep 11, 2016 5:30 am

vermonthunter16 wrote:I never heard of the internet hunting! I just looked it up, way too far into the ethical dilemma! But when it comes to crossbows, VT just made it legal for anyone over the age of 55 to use. This I completely agree with, a lot of guys can't pull back a bow anymore after a certain age.



I agree with that change.

Here in RI anyone can have a crossbow all season long. not a good situation. I agree with restrictions on these things. But like I said if theyre going to let everyone hunt with crossbows all season long, then just open shotgun and muzzle loader all season long. I dont see much of a difference.

Unless like you stated you're unable to pull back a bow, or you have some type of restriction.
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Re: Ethical Decisions - an internal struggle? Should it be?

Unread postby woodswalker » Sun Sep 11, 2016 5:38 am

Crossbows started in PA with handicapped hunters who couldn't pull a bow. They got a permit to use a crossbow. From there is expanded to lawful use for everyone. PA holds the line pretty well on electronic devices. Night vision devices are unlawful, laser sights or devices are illegal, electronic calls for anything but furbearers ie foxes coyotes etc and it is unlawful to use two way radios or cell phones to direct someone to game or to warn them that game is coming towards them. The officers do work the radio angle and make prosecutions but the cell phones would be very difficult to enforce. Range finders are legal. Game cameras are legal because the info they gather is before the fact, the ones that transmit pictures to a computer or phone in real time could be illegal to use if someone was watching one and sees game and then immediately goes after it The law says any electronic device is unlawful to use unless approved by the Commission. The problem is, technology is coming out so fast it is on shelves in stores before the state game agencies even know it exists.
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Re: Ethical Decisions - an internal struggle? Should it be?

Unread postby magicman54494 » Sun Sep 11, 2016 6:40 am

If it feels good, do it.

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Re: Ethical Decisions - an internal struggle? Should it be?

Unread postby oldrank » Sun Sep 11, 2016 8:09 am

magicman54494 wrote:If it feels good, do it.

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Exactly. Thats been my motto since I was about 13.

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Re: Ethical Decisions - an internal struggle? Should it be?

Unread postby Rich M » Mon Sep 12, 2016 11:04 am

As a deaf guy, I don't hunt for a challenge, I hunt for an opportunity. Just hunting is challenging enough.


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