Does This Statement Hold True?

[Stanley]

The key is hunting the best location, with in the best location. Dan pushes this all the time. Where you ask, is the best location within the best location? Dan spells it out all the time. One small hint, starts with a "B".

[Dewey]

Honestly I can't answer that because both are so extremely important. You can have the best funnels in the world but if the deer population is very low you could sit there for months and never see a deer. I see this all the time in northern WI. In most cases if I don't see good sign which includes large beds, big tracks, big droppings and some bigger rubs or scrapes I'm moving on. Once I find sign I like then I decide how to hunt the terrain. Usually they both come together fairly quickly once I get the sign figured out.

Rut hunting is all about sign for me. I have a few spots that I monitor late Oct to early November. I can tell the exact day that cruising starts a major increase because the trail downwind of doe bedding goes from a very sparse trail in marsh peat to being pounded with larger tracks from cruising bucks overnight. There is really no terrain feature that would tell me to hunt those spots so I rely totally on sign. It's payed off for me a number of times.

[ Post made via iPhone ]

[Uncle Lou]

I have to think a good case could be made for either. Unless you only have one day to hunt, hunt sign when you find it and hunt the locations that you learned in the book.

[dan]

Location... Lets face it. The over all majority of hunters set stands over the top of heavy trails, rubs, scrapes, etc. Do the majority of hunters kill big bucks?

I often walk right past heavy sign and hunt where there is a little or no sign and I would say I have my share of action.

The key is to hunt where they move in daylight, not where they hang out at night.

[Whitetailaddict]

Am I missing something? I always thought people on here stressed that when you find hot sign you need to set up on it. I took the sign in this case to be good rubs and scrapes with big tracks. I understand location is important but wouldn't hot sign like I mentioned be considered a good location? Also in a real woods situation you would likely be heading to an area you thought was good or why else would you be walking around the woods without a purpose during season? Maybe quality of the sign should be stressed over just sign in general? Or maybe location of the sign is more important as I think Dan and others have stressed that sign in the bottoms in hill country was likely made at night. Also does anyone have a link to past threads about discerning daytime and nighttime sign if there is one?

[dan]

Am I missing something? I always thought people on here stressed that when you find hot sign you need to set up on it. I took the sign in this case to be good rubs and scrapes with big tracks. I understand location is important but wouldn't hot sign like I mentioned be considered a good location? Also in a real woods situation you would likely be heading to an area you thought was good or why else would you be walking around the woods without a purpose during season? Maybe quality of the sign should be stressed over just sign in general? Or maybe location of the sign is more important as I think Dan and others have stressed that sign in the bottoms in hill country was likely made at night. Also does anyone have a link to past threads about discerning daytime and nighttime sign if there is one?

Sign is awesome "IF" its in the right location.... Whenever we talk about hunting hot sign I always make a point of saying that it still needs to be at the "location" where they move in daylight...

[Jrichard]

Location... Lets face it. The over all majority of hunters set stands over the top of heavy trails, rubs, scrapes, etc. Do the majority of hunters kill big bucks?

I often walk right past heavy sign and hunt where there is a little or no sign and I would say I have my share of action.

The key is to hunt where they move in daylight, not where they hang out at night.

Dan that makes sense. I was thinking about it last night. especially in early season, I have noticed that in my one spot that has fields that deer like to feed in they dont usually hit my trail cameras until 8 pm or later. And thats where all the beaten trails are. But are Does and smaller bucks going to use these saddles or anything? Or do bucks usually use these to stay off the beaten trail?


Now what I dont understand and IDK if someone can clarify for me. I have spot that has a boundary line that is a small brooke. And the deer bed on the opposite side of the river that I can't hunt. But they cross this river and they seem to stage on the public side in the swampy area. Then theres a decent sized hill that goes up to pretty open woods. Then there is a large field. So when I found this hill (its pretty consistant all the way threw. I walked for 2 hours along this hill to see if there was a slower incline or anything but it was all very consistant. Except in one spot. There was a small saddle. It looks like we got some heavy rain and it just washed this one spot out for some reason. But there is NO sign or trail going up this part of the hill. When I went down into this area I even used this little saddle because walking up this hill exhausting. (its pretty steep and I am being a little dramatic lol) But I did find a decent trail that goes right up the hill haha. Makes no sense. I guess I am hunting the only deer that aren't lazy hahaha.

Also they keep refering to MATURE TIMBER or MATURE OAK TREES. This may be a stupid question, but how do you determine mature timber from immature timber and oak trees? Also what should I be looking for right now as far as trees go? Should I be looking for a cluster of a few oak trees that are going to produce this year? Or should I wait to see what trees the deer are using?

I think this book is creating more questions than answers haha. Everyone is going to regret me purchasing this book ;p

[JoeRE]

Yea I would agree its really about location when BED HUNTING, maybe also while RUT HUNTING. I am convinced quite a few of the oldest bucks don't lay down much sign. Most 2 and 3 year olds lay down a ton of sign. I walk right by a lot of sign every fall that I think is made by younger bucks.

Admittedly location over sign is a big generalization though....lots of other hunting strategies out there. For instance tracking a buck is purely hunting sign.

Setting up on hot sign is a very good strategy, however, it needs to be Big Buck Sign, and it needs to be made in daylight, to have a good chance of killing a big buck over it. The vast majority of rubs and scrapes in the woods are not done by the deer I want and/or done at night. Have to determine if its probably big buck sign or not, and yes that is easier said than done sometimes.

If you want a If you want a younger buck, and nothing wrong with that if it makes you happy, setting up over any hot buck sign that was likely made in DAYLIGHT is a great strategy.

[dan]

If you want a If you want a younger buck, and nothing wrong with that if it makes you happy, setting up over any hot buck sign that was likely made in DAYLIGHT is a great strategy.

If the "sign" your talking about is made in "daylight" you probably know that based on "location"... I think as you eluded, both are important. But location is always a little more important... After all, what new hunter has not fallen for finding a huge rub in the middle of the woods and hunted over it and seen nothing... Why? Its a huge rub, big bucks should be coming from every direction, right? no, wrong... Its all about location. Sign by it self just tells me a big buck has been there. If he moves 95 % of the time at night, that means 95% of his sign is made at night... Location tells us where he moves in daylight.

[stash59]

Since your still going after your 1st deer. I'd say sign. But unless your observing daylight movement on fields/open areas. Even if your targeting a doe. I'd try to sit on sign closer to the beds/bedding areas.

If you've done some actual spring scouting looking for and finding beds. You can hunt even closer, within reason, to the beds. Just remember that the closer to the beds you get. The stealthier you'll have to be. This will take some experience as to what you can get away with.

Just remember. You learn to crawl before you can run. Hunting mature bucks is like running. A marathon!!! Just learning any deer sign and hunting over it is a good start!!! Just being out there and getting some experience will be very valuable. Ask why is the sign there? What wind/winds are safe to hunt it. How can I get there and set up without spooking the deer. Don't forget your milkweed thistle. Observe and learn from the deer.

As far as what's mature timber? Depending on the species. To me. Something 20 years old plus. At least 1 foot on the stump. Something that is producing it's fruit/seeds/nuts.

Oaks can be hard to pin down. You can look into the trees now for acorns. I even use binoculars. Pay attention as fall comes and listen for them dropping. The areas that drop first will be eaten first. Some trees drop quickly. Others more slowly. How long they get hit. Or last. Depends on how many deer are hitting a tree or group of trees.

If you have more questions don't be afraid to post them on here.

Good luck and I can't wait to see a pic of you in the kill thread!!!!

[PK_]

The two do go hand in hand for sure, but if you must choose, you need to choose the locations a big buck is more likely to show during shooting hours…

Walk the edge of a green field, you will see all the sign you could ever ask for, tracks, scat, rubs, scrapes, ground tore up from bucks fighting…

Also hunting hot sign doesn't always mean you have to hunt right over it. In the scenario above of a green field, you can check that field for big buck sign and when the big buck sign shows up in the field, you hunt the closest buck bedding. There may or may not be sign near the bedding but if they are leaving sign in that field they are coming from somewhere. Think about Dan's 'Rome Pond' buck (I think that is the right story), he saw a rub line open up 200 yards from the bedding and knew to go in and hunt, but he wasn't just setting up right over that rub line, he was setting up in the right location...

[whitetailassasin]

Location is key. I wrote a response but for whatever reason it didn't post yesterday. one place I hunt has an wood lot that gets tore up with big rubs, scrapes, etc. all the hunters hunt this because it's more open woods, but it isn't the location of where the deer move in daylight hours. I located the primary bedding and there isn't a rub, or scrape to be found. But that's where the mature bucks and even young bucks are bedded. Distinguishing hot sign with daylight sign, as to the difference between night time sign, is the key. I know when I start seeing rubs pop up on the outside and big tracks show me it's being used, I know the location from which they are calling home then. Seasons afield will be your greatest teacher of how to interpret this. In high places that receive high pressure, you need to understand mature bucks will be in the lowest pressure locations and you will need to know the beds for sure in order to get close for a crack in daylight. I do believe the two can go hand in hand, but only first when you know the location of bedding. Then sign becomes of importance.

[ Post made via iPhone ]

[csoult]

I believe the majority of what the author is writing about has to do with the rut time period.

[ Post made via iPhone ]

[mainebowhunter]

Am I missing something? I always thought people on here stressed that when you find hot sign you need to set up on it. I took the sign in this case to be good rubs and scrapes with big tracks. I understand location is important but wouldn't hot sign like I mentioned be considered a good location? Also in a real woods situation you would likely be heading to an area you thought was good or why else would you be walking around the woods without a purpose during season? Maybe quality of the sign should be stressed over just sign in general? Or maybe location of the sign is more important as I think Dan and others have stressed that sign in the bottoms in hill country was likely made at night. Also does anyone have a link to past threads about discerning daytime and nighttime sign if there is one?

Sign is awesome "IF" its in the right location.... Whenever we talk about hunting hot sign I always make a point of saying that it still needs to be at the "location" where they move in daylight...

That is the point I was trying to make. It has to be the right sign in the right places. Not just random sign in the middle of the timber. It has to mean something.

[ Post made via Android ]

[mheichelbech]

I had a time lapse camera out in an area that had virtually no visible sign but was typical terrain as described in that book...over the course of week it showed 15-20 per day and 2 p&y bucks and one potential booner using the area regularly in daylight. Nailed an 11 point p&y out of it last year. The deer simply weren't using a specific path, they travelled in scattered manner through this area and therefore didn't make any real trails. Also, this specific area saw movement throughout the day...not just mornings and evenings.

[ Post made via iPhone ]

October. It is a general travel area for the deer with
Interesting. What time of year?

[ Post made via Android ]

October. Lot of oaks in the area which may explain the scattered travel. It is a low pressure property that tends to heat up as the season goes on and deer pressured from other properties. You don't really start noticing any trails until later when all the vegetation dies off and the ground is consistently soft from rain and snow.

[ Post made via iPhone ]