For me...it really is true what they say about failure...

Discuss deer hunting tactics, Deer behavior. Post your Hunting Stories, Pictures, and Questions/Answers.
User avatar
seazofcheeze
500 Club
Posts: 3860
Joined: Wed Sep 18, 2013 1:13 pm
Location: Billings, MT
Status: Offline

Re: For me...it really is true what they say about failure..

Unread postby seazofcheeze » Wed Jul 13, 2016 2:03 am

I'm going to take a different approach here. I don't think the question of whether or not to take the shot is the question at hand. I would be looking at 2 other factors more closely. 1. My access route 2. The tree I put my stand in.

You said you went in blind, so access route is tougher in this scenario. If you're not familiar with that particular area, it's more difficult to predict deer travel, but not impossible. Did you see a bedding area on your aerial map? Pass any food sources on your way in, buck sign, trails, old tracks? Dan talks about it all the time, slowing down, especially when getting close to the setup area. You need to look 50-100yards ahead and look at the available trees and pick the right one BEFORE you walk all over that area. Once you pick the tree, pick the most likely area a buck would walk by and don't walk there if possible. If you have to walk there, make sure you can shoot a deer before it hits your ground scent.

On a blind hunt or cyberscouted only hunt, these things are much tougher, but I think it can still be done. Next time around you will be that much more aware and proficient. Like the other guys said, turn that experience into knowledge.

[ Post made via Android ] Image


User avatar
Wlog
500 Club
Posts: 3642
Joined: Mon Dec 31, 2012 1:28 am
Location: Eastern Shore MD
Status: Offline

Re: For me...it really is true what they say about failure..

Unread postby Wlog » Wed Jul 13, 2016 2:55 am

Failure is certain in bow hunting. We fail more than we succeed. Every bow hunter has to accept that. When you fail you tweak and fine tune your approach. Every time you fail, if you're perceptive enough, you will take something positive away from the failure. Eventually you get to a point where you have eliminated so many weak spots through trial and error that the tables turn and the odds are stacked in your favor.

Be willing to work hard. Going in blind to hunt somewhere is fine and can be successful, but if you scout as much as you hunt or more and get to know a property or several intimately, you'll have much more success. You need to know it well enough that when you screw up and get busted you have a good idea where they'll be the next day. Save your blind hunts for when you want to let your other pre scouted spots cool off or you are out of scouted options.

Practice with your bow twice the distance you will shoot at one. If 25 yards is your limit while hunting, practice at 50. Shoot your bow with your hunting setup so you know how your broadheads fly. Keep your equipment maintained and noise free. You probably already know a lot of this but a refresher never hurts.

There is one thing you can learn from the over commercialized hunting shows that's beneficial, how deer react differently depending on where they're shot. No one can have as much real life experience of watching deer duck arrows, be gut shot, shot at bad angles, etc. as you can see in a few episodes of bow hunting tv shows. It can also be a good tool for beginners on reading a deeds body language. Watch what happens when they get downwind of the Hunter. Sure you can learn it on your own but if you're anything like I was when I first started out you might not see a deer on stand for weeks at a time, so there is only so much you can learn from that.

[ Post made via iPhone ] Image
Trust in the Lord with all your heart and lean not on your own understanding.
mheichelbech
500 Club
Posts: 4188
Joined: Thu Nov 21, 2013 10:00 am
Facebook: mheichelbech@gmail.com
Location: Charlestown, IN
Status: Offline

Re: For me...it really is true what they say about failure..

Unread postby mheichelbech » Wed Jul 13, 2016 4:01 am

Wlog wrote:Failure is certain in bow hunting. We fail more than we succeed. Every bow hunter has to accept that. When you fail you tweak and fine tune your approach. Every time you fail, if you're perceptive enough, you will take something positive away from the failure. Eventually you get to a point where you have eliminated so many weak spots through trial and error that the tables turn and the odds are stacked in your favor.

Be willing to work hard. Going in blind to hunt somewhere is fine and can be successful, but if you scout as much as you hunt or more and get to know a property or several intimately, you'll have much more success. You need to know it well enough that when you screw up and get busted you have a good idea where they'll be the next day. Save your blind hunts for when you want to let your other pre scouted spots cool off or you are out of scouted options.

Practice with your bow twice the distance you will shoot at one. If 25 yards is your limit while hunting, practice at 50. Shoot your bow with your hunting setup so you know how your broadheads fly. Keep your equipment maintained and noise free. You probably already know a lot of this but a refresher never hurts.

There is one thing you can learn from the over commercialized hunting shows that's beneficial, how deer react differently depending on where they're shot. No one can have as much real life experience of watching deer duck arrows, be gut shot, shot at bad angles, etc. as you can see in a few episodes of bow hunting tv shows. It can also be a good tool for beginners on reading a deeds body language. Watch what happens when they get downwind of the Hunter. Sure you can learn it on your own but if you're anything like I was when I first started out you might not see a deer on stand for weeks at a time, so there is only so much you can learn from
[ Post made via iPhone ] Image

This is one thing I pay attention to on made for tv hunting shows...even if not always totally realistic, some of them show good visuals of the deer approaching and able to learn and see how someone that most likely shoots a lot of deer approaches the shot. They may not be pressured deer but it's almost always a pressure situation when getting ready to shoot a deer.

[ Post made via iPhone ] Image
"One of the chief attractions of the life of the wilderness is its rugged and stalwart democracy; there every man stands for what he actually is and can show himself to be." — Theodore Roosevelt, 1893
JohnFunn
Posts: 261
Joined: Wed Oct 15, 2014 5:31 pm
Location: Northern/Central Minnesota
Status: Offline

Re: For me...it really is true what they say about failure..

Unread postby JohnFunn » Wed Jul 13, 2016 5:05 am

seazofcheeze wrote:I'm going to take a different approach here. I don't think the question of whether or not to take the shot is the question at hand. I would be looking at 2 other factors more closely. 1. My access route 2. The tree I put my stand in.

You said you went in blind, so access route is tougher in this scenario. If you're not familiar with that particular area, it's more difficult to predict deer travel, but not impossible. Did you see a bedding area on your aerial map? Pass any food sources on your way in, buck sign, trails, old tracks? Dan talks about it all the time, slowing down, especially when getting close to the setup area. You need to look 50-100yards ahead and look at the available trees and pick the right one BEFORE you walk all over that area. Once you pick the tree, pick the most likely area a buck would walk by and don't walk there if possible. If you have to walk there, make sure you can shoot a deer before it hits your ground scent.

On a blind hunt or cyberscouted only hunt, these things are much tougher, but I think it can still be done. Next time around you will be that much more aware and proficient. Like the other guys said, turn that experience into knowledge.

[ Post made via Android ] Image


Yep...good stuff here...but just for the record.. this is the buck that slapped me in the face and made me a believer....i had been on this site but wasnt ready to learn...so i only had some knowledge and some belief in bed hunting....actully the hunt was mostly out of desperation...i did consider where a buck may be bedded when cyber scouting. ..also used a beaver pond to my advantage. ..but the plan from the start was to do some blind calling (the ol' desperation call)...so i had an open area to my back so nothing could get down wind of me without me seeing it...wind in my face...and hey...it almost worked...and when the time is right and the desperation is high enough...i will do it again!

...but next time and everytime i will definitely consider the things you mentioned. ..my entrance to and from was maybe the weakest part of my game...if they weren't smelling me before i saw them they were definitely seeing me...hard thing to admit but what the heck...i went back to the drawing board anyways! ;) I knew big bucks could smell....but he really made me realize HOW well...and how often it very well could have been the reason a buck didnt show...or how i got less and less pic of a big buck ect...game changing......

[ Post made via Android ] Image
JohnFunn
Posts: 261
Joined: Wed Oct 15, 2014 5:31 pm
Location: Northern/Central Minnesota
Status: Offline

Re: For me...it really is true what they say about failure..

Unread postby JohnFunn » Wed Jul 13, 2016 5:17 am

Wlog wrote:Failure is certain in bow hunting. We fail more than we succeed. Every bow hunter has to accept that. When you fail you tweak and fine tune your approach. Every time you fail, if you're perceptive enough, you will take something positive away from the failure. Eventually you get to a point where you have eliminated so many weak spots through trial and error that the tables turn and the odds are stacked in your favor.

Be willing to work hard. Going in blind to hunt somewhere is fine and can be successful, but if you scout as much as you hunt or more and get to know a property or several intimately, you'll have much more success. You need to know it well enough that when you screw up and get busted you have a good idea where they'll be the next day. Save your blind hunts for when you want to let your other pre scouted spots cool off or you are out of scouted options.

Practice with your bow twice the distance you will shoot at one. If 25 yards is your limit while hunting, practice at 50. Shoot your bow with your hunting setup so you know how your broadheads fly. Keep your equipment maintained and noise free. You probably already know a lot of this but a refresher never hurts.

There is one thing you can learn from the over commercialized hunting shows that's beneficial, how deer react differently depending on where they're shot. No one can have as much real life experience of watching deer duck arrows, be gut shot, shot at bad angles, etc. as you can see in a few episodes of bow hunting tv shows. It can also be a good tool for beginners on reading a deeds body language. Watch what happens when they get downwind of the Hunter. Sure you can learn it on your own but if you're anything like I was when I first started out you might not see a deer on stand for weeks at a time, so there is only so much you can learn from that.

[ Post made via iPhone ] Image


Also some great points. ..i just got into a rut where i only hunted private and didnt do much scouting at all. ..as the season wore on and my frustration built..i did come on here and read a few things. ..which lead me to cyber scouting and heck even buying a lone wolf set up...so i got in there. ..got slapped in the face and it changed me and how i approach the game. ..i really think i have analyzed and learned and made mental notes from this encounter. ..learned a TON! And im glad it happened...but what im really after is say one of your failures and what you took away from it. ...how it changed you. ...for example

[ Post made via Android ] Image
User avatar
whitetailassasin
Posts: 3404
Joined: Tue Sep 25, 2012 12:34 pm
Location: Michigan
Status: Offline

Re: For me...it really is true what they say about failure..

Unread postby whitetailassasin » Wed Jul 13, 2016 2:21 pm

I wanted to touch back on drawing, I still draw on deer that I don't intend to shoot to stay on point. What I can get away with and what you can't.

I think you did the right thing passing the shot, the fact your asking tells me you did the right thing. Confidence goes a long way. I'm not going to weigh in on right or wrong here. But I remember just watching a young man drop an elk in its tracks with a front on shot. So who am I to say yes or no.

The one issue no one has touched on is the trimming you did. Unnessary ground scent if you ask me. Especially if a blind hunt. Walking where he's expected to come from ads to the situation but you've already come to grips with that one.

[ Post made via iPhone ] Image
mainebowhunter
500 Club
Posts: 3448
Joined: Fri Jan 15, 2016 10:45 am
Status: Offline

Re: For me...it really is true what they say about failure..

Unread postby mainebowhunter » Wed Jul 13, 2016 2:42 pm

whitetailassasin wrote:I wanted to touch back on drawing, I still draw on deer that I don't intend to shoot to stay on point. What I can get away with and what you can't.

I think you did the right thing passing the shot, the fact your asking tells me you did the right thing. [glow=red]Confidence goes a long way. I'm not going to weigh in on right or wrong here. But I remember just watching a young man drop an elk in its tracks with a front on shot. So who am I to say yes or no.[/glow]

The one issue no one has touched on is the trimming you did. Unnessary ground scent if you ask me. Especially if a blind hunt. Walking where he's expected to come from ads to the situation but you've already come to grips with that one.

[ Post made via iPhone ] Image


Agreed. Shot selection really is a personal choice. 2012, faced it myself. Buck of a lifetime was at 18yds. Buck we had hunted for 4yrs. He was 8.5yrs old. He was following a doe. He was near straight on facing me. Doe was below me. She had passed by me at 10yds. He had been following her step for step. I was figuring he would do the same thing.

He did not. He came straight across and took a shortcut. He was behind me at 4yds and i could not shoot. He walked away following her. I never saw the buck again. I believe he died that year.

IF I had shot and killed him, everyone would have been slapping me on the back and excited. IF I had shot and wounded him, I would have been asking myself, "why did I not wait for a better shot?" IF I don't shoot "why did I not take the first available shot I was given?"

And thats deer hunting. In the end? I was excited to have the encounter. First time I had ever seen that buck from stand.
JohnFunn
Posts: 261
Joined: Wed Oct 15, 2014 5:31 pm
Location: Northern/Central Minnesota
Status: Offline

Re: For me...it really is true what they say about failure..

Unread postby JohnFunn » Wed Jul 13, 2016 3:09 pm

whitetailassasin wrote:I wanted to touch back on drawing, I still draw on deer that I don't intend to shoot to stay on point. What I can get away with and what you can't.

I think you did the right thing passing the shot, the fact your asking tells me you did the right thing. Confidence goes a long way. I'm not going to weigh in on right or wrong here. But I remember just watching a young man drop an elk in its tracks with a front on shot. So who am I to say yes or no.

The one issue no one has touched on is the trimming you did. Unnessary ground scent if you ask me. Especially if a blind hunt. Walking where he's expected to come from ads to the situation but you've already come to grips with that one.

[ Post made via iPhone ] Image


Thank you.. no doubt i felt i needed a better shot...is what it is..some woulda takin it.. some wouldnt have...wasnt really perfectly straight one either...always amazed after skinning a deer how different the impact actually is throught the deer...anyways...had to do the trimming. ..but yeah dont leave it right in the kill zone...but honestly im used to sniping em out at 200 yards...big difference when you're talkin inside of 20!! But im learning! Hahaha...woulda like to have him on the wall...but wouldn't trade the fire he lit inside of me....

[ Post made via Android ] Image
JoeRE
500 Club
Posts: 4576
Joined: Thu Oct 18, 2012 5:26 am
Location: IA
Status: Offline

Re: For me...it really is true what they say about failure..

Unread postby JoeRE » Thu Jul 14, 2016 4:16 am

First, welcome John. Bowhunting is quite a thrill isn't it! One big thing that jumped out in your story is - patience my man! We all make mistakes. This is not some instant gratification pastime. Keep an open mind, be a student of your quarry, and realize that confidence builds with years and decades, not days or weeks. We all start with zero experience. Also - have fun!

A few comments about shot choice. Hawthorne, I shoot a similar setup for the same reasons - am confident I can shoot through a big buck at just about any angle - but remember most people do not. [glow=red]Lots of low momentum, low FOC, big broadhead bow setups out there that should not attempt to shoot through or between a deer's shoulders from the front. If they try it, they will likely fail.[/glow]

Another thing, average accuracy for bowhunters is not great. Lets face it. Look at all the deer that get wounded with "good" shot opportunities. As a whole we need to be LESS aggressive with our shot choice not MORE. You need to hit a fist size target on a frontal shot. Otherwise your arrow will probably slide right along the ribs. I have seen it happen. Unless a hunter has confidence they will hit that fist size target in BOWHUNTING conditions (you are cold and stiff yet your heart is racing, maybe you have been at full draw for 90 seconds, not to mention the deer is probably looking at you, alert, ready to jump the string etc....) they have no business taking that shot. Gotta be realistic with yourself folks.

If and only if a hunter has realistic confidence in the face of all that, then go ahead and take the shot.

A frontal shot on an elk is a different ball game. A frontal shot into the heart or the arteries above the heart will take any kind of animal down, but an elk is twice the size of a deer - you probably have a 6" target - and also elk are FAR less likely to jump the string. To me they are more cow-like than deer-like. Stationary target.

Anyway, I will still take a frontal shot on a whitetail buck under extremely controlled conditions and likely not over 15 yards....I shoot a heavy, high FOC arrow with a COC broadhead that has proven to blow through any deer size game AND a couple of elk...its possible I never actually will, just because I never will be in that situation I am confident with. Its just something in the toolbox. Every tool you have better darn well be very carefully selected.
User avatar
Lockdown
Moderator
Posts: 9957
Joined: Fri Jul 18, 2014 4:16 pm
Location: MN
Status: Offline

Re: For me...it really is true what they say about failure..

Unread postby Lockdown » Thu Jul 14, 2016 4:53 am

JoeRE wrote:First, welcome John. Bowhunting is quite a thrill isn't it! One big thing that jumped out in your story is - patience my man! We all make mistakes. This is not some instant gratification pastime. Keep an open mind, be a student of your quarry, and realize that confidence builds with years and decades, not days or weeks. We all start with zero experience. Also - have fun!

A few comments about shot choice. Hawthorne, I shoot a similar setup for the same reasons - am confident I can shoot through a big buck at just about any angle - but remember most people do not. [glow=red]Lots of low momentum, low FOC, big broadhead bow setups out there that should not attempt to shoot through or between a deer's shoulders from the front. If they try it, they will likely fail.[/glow]

Another thing, average accuracy for bowhunters is not great. Lets face it. Look at all the deer that get wounded with "good" shot opportunities. As a whole we need to be LESS aggressive with our shot choice not MORE. You need to hit a fist size target on a frontal shot. Otherwise your arrow will probably slide right along the ribs. I have seen it happen. Unless a hunter has confidence they will hit that fist size target in BOWHUNTING conditions (you are cold and stiff yet your heart is racing, maybe you have been at full draw for 90 seconds, not to mention the deer is probably looking at you, alert, ready to jump the string etc....) they have no business taking that shot. Gotta be realistic with yourself folks.

If and only if a hunter has realistic confidence in the face of all that, then go ahead and take the shot.

A frontal shot on an elk is a different ball game. A frontal shot into the heart or the arteries above the heart will take any kind of animal down, but an elk is twice the size of a deer - you probably have a 6" target - and also elk are FAR less likely to jump the string. To me they are more cow-like than deer-like. Stationary target.

Anyway, I will still take a frontal shot on a whitetail buck under extremely controlled conditions and likely not over 15 yards....I shoot a heavy, high FOC arrow with a COC broadhead that has proven to blow through any deer size game AND a couple of elk...its possible I never actually will, just because I never will be in that situation I am confident with. Its just something in the toolbox. Every tool you have better darn well be very carefully selected.



Agree 100%... But I don't consider my set up to be able to blow thru bone. I don't take quartering to shots EVER.

I agree with the fist sized target comment. The reason why I will take that shot at 12 yards or less is because a deer can't jump the string at that yardage, and I know I can hit a fist size target every time at that yardage. At 20 can I? Probably not on a live deer. Too far for me. At 15? Maybe but not willin to risk it.

[ Post made via iPhone ] Image
Rich M
500 Club
Posts: 3980
Joined: Thu Feb 18, 2016 1:29 pm
Location: Sunny Florida
Status: Offline

Re: For me...it really is true what they say about failure..

Unread postby Rich M » Thu Jul 14, 2016 5:07 am

I just can't see that as a failure. So, you studied a topo and an aerial - and set-up, big buck walks up to your stand. That's pretty awesome. Better than I've done thus far.

If you think you can slip the arrow into both lungs, do it. Frontal quartering shots aren't bad. Guys are talking like the shoulder is a shield that extends around the front - looks at a schematic and see. frontal shots are ribs only - my last bow shot deer (x-bow) was about 15 yards and frontal quartering - it did not hit the shoulder.
User avatar
Wlog
500 Club
Posts: 3642
Joined: Mon Dec 31, 2012 1:28 am
Location: Eastern Shore MD
Status: Offline

Re: For me...it really is true what they say about failure..

Unread postby Wlog » Thu Jul 14, 2016 6:01 am

Rich M wrote:I just can't see that as a failure. So, you studied a topo and an aerial - and set-up, big buck walks up to your stand. That's pretty awesome. Better than I've done thus far.

If you think you can slip the arrow into both lungs, do it. Frontal quartering shots aren't bad. Guys are talking like the shoulder is a shield that extends around the front - looks at a schematic and see. frontal shots are ribs only - my last bow shot deer (x-bow) was about 15 yards and frontal quartering - it did not hit the shoulder.



Right, definitely not a failure. If I can get on a mature buck one out of 10-12 hunts, that's a win for me. 1/1 is perfect. Having a nice buck in bow range and getting the shot off are two different things. Kind of like you won the battle but not the war.

As far as the shot goes; just remember that we all have our own personal skills and limitations. You don't have to live up to anyone else's standards. If you aren't comfortable with a shot and choose not to take it...that's your call. Don't set your personal limitations according to what someone else's skill set is. I can hit a tennis ball at fifty yards consistently, but I know from past experience that when a nice buck is in front of me it's a whole other story.
Long tracking jobs without a dead animal at the end of them suck. Especially when you stay out looking for days and second guess yourself and beat yourself up the entire time. To me, if I get a buck in bow range but can't get a shot for whatever reason, it's still a small victory.

[ Post made via iPhone ] Image
Trust in the Lord with all your heart and lean not on your own understanding.
JoeRE
500 Club
Posts: 4576
Joined: Thu Oct 18, 2012 5:26 am
Location: IA
Status: Offline

Re: For me...it really is true what they say about failure..

Unread postby JoeRE » Thu Jul 14, 2016 12:53 pm

Rich M wrote:I just can't see that as a failure. So, you studied a topo and an aerial - and set-up, big buck walks up to your stand. That's pretty awesome. Better than I've done thus far.


Yea, that would be my main point too...if a person thinks they can just go out and do that every time, or even more than every now and then without a ton of hard work, they are watching way too many hunting shows!
Rich M
500 Club
Posts: 3980
Joined: Thu Feb 18, 2016 1:29 pm
Location: Sunny Florida
Status: Offline

Re: For me...it really is true what they say about failure..

Unread postby Rich M » Thu Jul 14, 2016 1:42 pm

Wlog wrote:As far as the shot goes; just remember that we all have our own personal skills and limitations. You don't have to live up to anyone else's standards. If you aren't comfortable with a shot and choose not to take it...that's your call.
[ Post made via iPhone ] Image


Well put.
JohnFunn
Posts: 261
Joined: Wed Oct 15, 2014 5:31 pm
Location: Northern/Central Minnesota
Status: Offline

Re: For me...it really is true what they say about failure..

Unread postby JohnFunn » Fri Jul 15, 2016 11:49 am

JoeRE wrote:
Rich M wrote:I just can't see that as a failure. So, you studied a topo and an aerial - and set-up, big buck walks up to your stand. That's pretty awesome. Better than I've done thus far.


Yea, that would be my main point too...if a person thinks they can just go out and do that every time, or even more than every now and then without a ton of hard work, they are watching way too many hunting shows!


...i maybe chose the wrong word when i said failure! I mean right after it happened and he vanished into the timber i thought wow...that was awsome! AWSOME! But ya know...the idea is to put him on the wall!

I did a bunch of things right and just a couple wrong...when i said failure i was speaking of the things i did wrong and the desire to correct them...and to plan ahead..and contol everything in my power that i can control. Another valuable lesson i learned is the big ones arnt messing around. ...(some of the young ones ive seen i swear i could drop my bow and climb down and shoot um off the ground!)and you can bet when i see one licking its nose with a snarl on his face i wont wonder what the heck hes doing like i did then!

...and i never once second guessed myself (ok maybe once :)) for not taking the shot...for me...it just wasnt there. ..others...perhaps...but like others stated above we should all stay within our own comfort leaves/standards and i did that....partly because i expected a better shot. ..like every single other buck ive seen in bow range (which i have pulled back on every time) gave me a better shot opportunity. ..another lesson...cant EXPECT that on a mature one! BE READY IN THE RED ZONE!

I really do understand and really RESPECT the fact that its a process. ..and i fully expect the growing pains that come along with it...I know the best thing i can do for myself come season is shoot a couple does....and i plan on it.

CANT SAY ENOUGH ABOUT ALL THE HELPFUL COMMENTS FROM YOU GUYS! THANK YOU. IT'S ALONG WAY TO THE TOP IF YOU WANNA ROCK N ROLL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[ Post made via Android ] Image


  • Advertisement

Return to “Deer Hunting”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: BLEXbot and 81 guests