Convincing a skeptic

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jmaas07
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Re: Convincing a skeptic

Unread postby jmaas07 » Wed Mar 30, 2016 10:12 am

maybe getting him on some fresh sits would be better than having him hunt your spots after you have sat it, if it's early season when your putting him in a spot and you have already sat it once or twice and then throw him on the same spot chances are it's burned and that wouldn't do much to bring him around to hunting this way if he never sees a good buck

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Motivated
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Re: Convincing a skeptic

Unread postby Motivated » Wed Mar 30, 2016 3:22 pm

I don't know about your dad, but my dad is losing his hearing. He has no idea how loud he is when he's walking. I have to constantly tell him that he's making noise, clanking metal, etc. His hearing loss hurts him significantly.

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Re: Convincing a skeptic

Unread postby Lockdown » Thu Mar 31, 2016 2:18 am

Kraftd wrote:I thought DaveT's point about maybe wanting to figure it out on his own could be a great one too. I know I wouldn't look at a 160" deer I shot with a guide the same as a 120" public land deer I did all the legwork for.


I'm the same way.

This winter when I told him I was going to set him up with a bunch of stuff, he seemed happy about it. Like I said he's tired of the struggle to find new spots, which is why I want to help him. I don't think it will bother him that I did the leg work for the stand locations. He just wants to hunt and have fun doing it.

If he could stick a 100" 8 pointer he'd be tickled pink. Dave mentioned him possibly being happy with a 125" ten point :D a buck like that would be a banner year. I'm pretty confident that would be his 3rd largest bow deer ever, next to the 2 giants he shot the same night in 1988.

I was at his house last night and I snapped a couple quick pics of the racks in his garage:


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The buck 4th from the left on the top was a dead buck he found slug hunting. The velvet rack with the truck plaque was a buck he hit with his truck :lol: People get a kick out of that one.
The arrow head plaques are bow deer, and the smooth edged plaques are gun deer. Some of these deer came from out west, including the mulie on the top right.



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He's killed a few elk too. The two racks above the door were both oxbow kills. The one on the right is a beast style bow kill. I killed from that stand too. We didn't know it was a Beast style set at the time. The 9 point on the left side of the bottom elk rack is actually a shotgun kill of mine. The 8 point to the right of the elk is a pretty nice 115-120ish 8 he killed on public close to ten years ago. He was bedded in the standing corn and dad caught him headed for a grove with a smaller buck. I think he got him from the ground too. 8-)



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Here's a better pic of that oxbow buck that was above the door. Probably a 3.5 year old. He came from a beautiful 40 acre piece that we lost permission for.



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Better pic of the public 8 he killed coming out of the corn. He'll score a little better than the other 8.



There are couple three year olds and a few nice two year olds. Pretty good for our area. However we've lost permission for every private property these deer were killed on. Not only that but most were killed over a decade ago. He's only got access to a couple private properties now, and they're super tough to bow hunt. Way too open. So that's why I'm trying to help him out.





I snapped a quick pic of his 19 pointer too...





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(One of the two monsters he killed in '88) Gotta love the treebark camo! 8-)
(If anyone hasn't seen the thread of his 2 bucks that got him in North American Whitetail magazine, comment and I'll post the link) Btw he killed the 2 big ones in September by accessing bedding from the back side by crossing a river with hip waders. The late 80's were good to him. Between party hunting in MN and out of state deer, he killed 6 bucks in 1988 alone :shock: He's a killer


I thought some of you might be interested in seeing those pics. I think its fun to see the accomplishments of a lifetime deer hunter.



DeerDylan wrote:Last season he watched the DVDs with me. On November 9th He decided to hunt one of his 3 stands that he hadn't hunted yet that season because it was a fresh sit. He ended up killing one of the largest bucks I've ever seen around, dwarfing the previous years buck. I told him " I would have never hunted that tree on that wind" he responded with " [glow=red][glow=red]I grabbed some milkweed on my way in and the thermals were in my favor[/glow][/glow]" :D :D

My dad prefers to watch me learn how to (hopefully) take it to the level I want to be at.


:lol: Dylan that's awesome... I laughed at the milkweed comment. 8-) I'll show him how Beast tactics helped your Dad... it'll add fuel to the fire.





justdirtyfun wrote:Will you be able to use a close parking lot bedding area? Better feeling if nothing happens than the mile back type spots.

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I do have some easier access spots picked for him, but he's still going to believe that they're there and have confidence in it for it to work. I know he's still got the drive to do some hiking. He and his brothers still go out West and put miles on in the mountains. If he can do it out there, he can do it here.


On a side note, I've talked with my buddies about certain stand sets that I have that are 3/4 mile in, sometimes more. They look at me like I'm nuts. However, the same guys have had 5-10 mile days out in South Dakota with me multiple days in a row. What makes SD worth it, but not MN? I've never understood that. No wonder you're more successful in SD, you try way harder?? :think:




jmaas07 wrote:maybe getting him on some fresh sits would be better than having him hunt your spots after you have sat it, if it's early season when your putting him in a spot and you have already sat it once or twice and then throw him on the same spot chances are it's burned and that wouldn't do much to bring him around to hunting this way if he never sees a good buck

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I hear what you're saying jmaas! I definitely won't be putting him in low percentage stuff. It would be more along the lines of, lets say I hunted a stand opening weekend (mid Sept) and then again October 10th. When late October/early November rolls around, IMO that stand can be sat again with confidence. Maybe nothing was in there early, but there could be now, plus its rut. I wouldn't put him somewhere that's legitimately burned out. I wouldn't sit a stand twice in two weeks and send him there 3 days later.

Keep in mind this is farm country and the deer have to put up with more human intrusion than they do in 3,000 acre swamp or a big woods scenario.

Furthermore, he's not set out strictly for a 3.5+ like I am. There's NO WAY he's passing a two year old. There are smaller bucks that he'd be willing to shoot that will let you by with more than 2 hunts in a 6-8 week stretch. If I hunt it twice early, he'd happily sit it during rut, and I'll eagerly be awaiting the results. Should be a solid sit for him and extra intel for me.



I'm going to have him read this thread, then I'm going to come up with a bunch of stuff for him to read and really emphasize how different this way of hunting is. On Monday I did ask one of my private landowners if my Dad could come and hunt out there with me a couple times this fall and he agreed to it. That's all find and dandy, but Dad is still going need a Beast mindset for stand access. All it takes is once snapped twig or metal clank and its potentially game over.
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Re: Convincing a skeptic

Unread postby DaveT1963 » Thu Mar 31, 2016 2:43 am

No matter what - it looks like you already ARE having a good year together - Awesome :) I am looking forward to seeing the progress throughout the year.

I can certainly relate to the getting tired of all the work - the last few years it has already started to become more apparent that I only have so many seasons in me to hunt the way I currently do.

125 was just a toss out - in all reality I personally like the approach the Native Americans had, any life taken is to be held in high regard, honor and valued. Just you two pursuing your passion together is the making of a phenomenal season - no matter what.

Guess there is no way you could get him to do a journal? Might expose him more to the HB site/methods as he pokes around here. :think:
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Re: Convincing a skeptic

Unread postby Rich M » Thu Mar 31, 2016 3:47 am

Motivated wrote:I don't know about your dad, but my dad is losing his hearing. He has no idea how loud he is when he's walking. I have to constantly tell him that he's making noise, clanking metal, etc. His hearing loss hurts him significantly.

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Convincing skeptics? It is okay if they don't want to hunt Beast-like. Maybe they can't? I guess where I'm going is that we aren't all in-your-face beast material with setting up close on beds and deaf folks are lousy bow hunters. To allow someone an opportunity in the manner where they can succeed is what you can do to help.

I'm deaf since birth - been wearing hearing aids since I was 5. Sound like a rhino coming thru the woods. Spooked 9 out of 10 deer for every shot I ever had with archery. The few I did shoot at easily dodged the arrow or jumped the string. My current record is 2 and 2. A spike and button taken, a 6 and true beast buck lost. Have missed about 20 deer at 20-30 yards...mostly due to deer moving out of the way, ducking, etc. That's it for about 28 yrs of archery hunting - quit from frustration. I will archery hunt infrequently now, when there is no other option and will not turn down a legal deer. My last bow hunt is described below.

How bad is my hearing? Was hunting with a buddy and he said he could hear my stand creak 150-200 yards away - I couldn't hear it. Had a bow I let a friend borrow and he left it out in the rain. Squeaked and squealed but I never heard it - a doe at 15 yards, head down behind a bush sure as anything did hear it...she turned inside out. Told my wife the story and she made me draw the bow - said it was horrible loud but high pitch...didn't make a sound to me.

So, I primarily gun hunt and try to be 100-150 yards from where I expect the deer to be but can shoot twice that if necessary. I like ladder stands with 2 anchor points for straps and often have momma come and listen to my stand before I hunt. I also try to sit very still and hope I'm not making noise. To have a deer un-alert and feeding at 50-100 yards is a happy accomplishment for me.
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Re: Convincing a skeptic

Unread postby Lockdown » Thu Mar 31, 2016 4:28 am

Rich M wrote:
Motivated wrote:I don't know about your dad, but my dad is losing his hearing. He has no idea how loud he is when he's walking. I have to constantly tell him that he's making noise, clanking metal, etc. His hearing loss hurts him significantly.

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To allow someone an opportunity in the manner where they can succeed is what you can do to help.


That's all I'm trying to do is help him out, Rich. IMO the mental aspect of this is 80% of the battle.

Dave I went through a couple threads in Best all time tactical with him in mind. I'm going to have him read in the "mental side of deer hunting" subject heading. Great threads. And maybe "are small bucks stringing you along"

Lots of good stuff in those threads that should help put things in perspective.

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Re: Convincing a skeptic

Unread postby Hawthorne » Thu Mar 31, 2016 6:44 am

Your dad looks like he's already had a good hunting career. Kinda like my dad. He sounds like he's a beast already. I got a laugh out of the truck plaque

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Re: Convincing a skeptic

Unread postby magicman54494 » Thu Mar 31, 2016 7:14 am

My question is why even try to convince them? Tell them how you hunt and let them decided for themselves.
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Re: Convincing a skeptic

Unread postby Lockdown » Thu Mar 31, 2016 7:36 am

magicman54494 wrote:My question is why even try to convince them? Tell them how you hunt and let them decided for themselves.


I think I started the thread with the wrong angle so to speak. I think he believes the tactics work. The basis of the thread was me hoping to get some of you to tell stories of taking an hour to close the last 100 yards. Or maybe successfully hanging a stand 50 yards from a bedded buck and watching him stand up.

Stories that will make him think "if these guys can do it, so can I".... THAT is the convincing I was looking for. I figured hearing from every day guys like himself would boost his confidence or help him reach full Beast mode on the approach.

I WAS HOPING TO PROVIDE HIM WITH YOUR BEAST STYLE SUCCESS STORIES.

I know I told him Dan has a set where he sets up within 40 yards of a bed and he does so successfully. He had a hard time believing it is possible. And with the current equipment he's using, it isn't.




And Hawthorne he has had a far better hunting career than most, but the last few archery seasons (6 or 7 years) have been pretty poor and he's frustrated.

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Re: Convincing a skeptic

Unread postby Lockdown » Thu Mar 31, 2016 8:17 am

Magic in one of the "mental side of deer hunting" threads, one of your posts said something along the lines of "unlearning what I had done my whole life was the hardest part"... That's the kind of comments I was looking for.

Showing him some of the best all time tactical threads will do the same as this one was suppose to, it's just more reading! Haha

Hopefully what he reads hits home. I'll keep you guys posted...

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Re: Convincing a skeptic

Unread postby Dewey » Thu Mar 31, 2016 8:48 am

Lockdown wrote:
magicman54494 wrote:My question is why even try to convince them? Tell them how you hunt and let them decided for themselves.


I think I started the thread with the wrong angle so to speak. I think he believes the tactics work. The basis of the thread was me hoping to get some of you to tell stories of taking an hour to close the last 100 yards. Or maybe successfully hanging a stand 50 yards from a bedded buck and watching him stand up.

Stories that will make him think "if these guys can do it, so can I".... THAT is the convincing I was looking for. I figured hearing from every day guys like himself would boost his confidence or help him reach full Beast mode on the approach.

I WAS HOPING TO PROVIDE HIM WITH YOUR BEAST STYLE SUCCESS STORIES.

I know I told him Dan has a set where he sets up within 40 yards of a bed and he does so successfully. He had a hard time believing it is possible. And with the current equipment he's using, it isn't.




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Here is the story from my 2013 buck.

viewtopic.php?f=287&t=21046&p=261219

He's not a monster but sounds like the story fits the criteria your looking for. This was my first Beast style kill.

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