Mature buck return from one season to the next

[mainebowhunter]

What are do most of you guys see on a return of bucks from one season to the next? 50% loss? 25% loss? If you chased a 3.5yr old this season, do you tend to see him again the next? Guns level the playing field around here. I would guess its similar in other gun rut states.

Curious....

[Hawthorne]

Bucks very rarely make it past 3.5 here. If a 4.5 is around I very rarely see them or I don't have access to the property that holds them. Majority of the nice bucks I see shot in my area or even in my state are 3 year olds.

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[dan]

Most of the bucks that make it to 3 1/2 seem to stick around but they get a lot less visible at 4 or older.

[mainebowhunter]

I have noticed, some areas, the age class gets totally wiped out in one gun season. 2014 I had one spot, 3 bucks I knew. 1 was 6, another was 4 and another was 3. 2 of those bucks had survived since 2012. Another I saw as a 2yr in 2013. 2015, not a single one survived. Not a sighting, not a picture. Gone. What showed up this year was a couple 3.5, couple 2.5 and 1.5.

Another area. 2013. Got daylight pics of 5-6 bucks, 3.5yrs +. Saw one of them last week Oct. 2014, 2015....barely saw 1 3.5yr on camera. 5 or 6 bucks gone. This year, never even hunted this area. 1 buck 6yrs old is only good buck I knew of on that farm.

Urban zone...which is primarily bow only, have 2 bucks that were 7yr this year. Huge bodies, small antlers. One is a ghost, other, do not chase to hard, he has barely any horns at all. But very few 1.5yr - 3.5yr. Overall, urban is low deer density. During November, 7 different bucks 3.5yr + showed up on camera on a ground scrape. Low doe numbers, bucks were on their feet big time during November.

[Rich M]

I hunted one parcel that has extreme pressure from and in the same areas the guy who holds the lease. 500 acres, all thick bedding 10 yr pines, thorns, brambles, swamps - many areas impenetrable to humans without shedding blood. We pretty much hunt trails crossing brushed-hogged lanes scattered with corn to slow 'em down for a shot. Often seeing bucks as we go in to hunt or on our way out - I see half my deer while I'm moving.

Guessing when all is said & done roughly 14 bucks came off the property. 3 - 1.5 yr olds, 3 - 2.5 yr olds, 8 - 3.5 or better.

Turned out that either other deer moved in, or were there all along.

Camera survey from January shows approx 18 - 1.5 yr old bucks, 6 or 8 - 2.5 yr old bucks, and 6 - 3.5 or older - 2 are real whoppers.

So, in this instance, the deer seem to be moving on to the property.

[JoeRE]

What I see on "good" open access lands is around a 50% average loss for all age classes....so half of 2 year olds make it, half of 3 year olds make it etc. Some of that loss might be from relocation of younger bucks but it is hard to say. Interestingly that 50% loss rate even seems to hold true for individual older bucks, its a coin flip if I see them next year. That is based on trail camera surveys.

I agree it varies year to year quite a bit here to. Gun deer harvest #s go up around here when we have a few inches of snow for the December gun seasons. That maximizes the effectiveness of deer drives, can see sign and deer better. If the ground is brown visibility is poorer and best of all for the deer if there is really bad weather that weeds out the sunshine hunters, harvest numbers are down and I see higher survival rates.

Locally the last really good survival year was 2013, the brutal cold we had in the gun seasons kept more hunters at home. As a result I saw a lot of friends in 2014. I expect 2016 to be mediocre based on 2015 harvest numbers.

[Hawthorne]

Anytime there's a big standing corn field left up till December or January I always hear guys say the bucks are gonna be bigger next year because they are surviving in the standing corn. The only thing I've seen it do is populate the does higher. No difference in bucks from what I've seen.

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[mainebowhunter]

In KS, it seems to be about 50% or less. If I have 8 3yr olds on camera, I may end up with 3 4.5 the next season. 2012 wiped out the age class totally. EHD kind of skewed the data quite a bit. Really wiped the age class right out. It is coming back now. We ended up.

[DaveT1963]

Most years I feel very fortunate if I can locate one or two four and a half year old bucks out of 20 to 30 different public land spots I look at. Some years i find more and one location I've been chasing one for the years now..... But I have not seen it photographed him since January which is abnormal.

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[moondoondude]

I would say quite a few in most of my hunting areas. If they aren't killed at 3.5, they typically stick around until the following year. Once a buck hits 4, I see a lot of changes and they become less visible and really start honing in and establishing a secure pattern within a safety blanket that many times becomes their core area/home range. I will venture to say that at least here, I see a huge transition towards general "big buck behaviors" from 2 to 3, and then another equally impressive transition between 3 and 4.

I have multiple years of history with the large majority of bucks that that are 5+ on my hunting properties. They seem to become masters of their environment by that age, given that the environment has become mostly unchanged throughout their growing years. The vast majority of hunters, almost all actually, don't have the knowledge or capabilities to effectively target and kill one of these bucks. The chances of killing that buck aren't necessarily dependent on the amount of hunting pressure on a property either - if a buck matured in the area or on a property where extreme hunting pressure is present, a lot of times they have adapted to it. They are survivors and extremely adaptable, and they can thrive in many environments.

Bigger bucks seem to be shot in waves on the properties I hunt (certain years where several are killed within a particular area or on a particular property) - I can almost always simply accredit it to a food source or the weather.

[mainebowhunter]

I would say quite a few in most of my hunting areas. If they aren't killed at 3.5, they typically stick around until the following year. Once a buck hits 4, I see a lot of changes and they become less visible and really start honing in and establishing a secure pattern within a safety blanket that many times becomes their core area/home range. I will venture to say that at least here, I see a huge transition towards general "big buck behaviors" from 2 to 3, and then another equally impressive transition between 3 and 4.

I have multiple years of history with the large majority of bucks that that are 5+ on my hunting properties. They seem to become masters of their environment by that age, given that the environment has become mostly unchanged throughout their growing years. The vast majority of hunters, almost all actually, don't have the knowledge or capabilities to effectively target and kill one of these bucks. The chances of killing that buck aren't necessarily dependent on the amount of hunting pressure on a property either - if a buck matured in the area or on a property where extreme hunting pressure is present, a lot of times they have adapted to it. They are survivors and extremely adaptable, and they can thrive in many environments.

Bigger bucks seem to be shot in waves on the properties I hunt (certain years where several are killed within a particular area or on a particular property) - I can almost always simply accredit it to a food source or the weather.

In Maine, I have Sept and Oct to kill one of these bucks. My main reason for not killing some of them? Pinning down beds they are using. I will say, my success or lack thereof always comes down to what I know about where the buck is bedding. If I could hunt end of December into January, my odds would go way up. But here, its typical for the antlers to cast off first week of January. Typical to see shed bucks by that time.

Its interesting you mention that about certain years. Been my observation as well. Deer show up with scars and wounds. Buck I killed this year had a big divot out of his back. Gun season is pretty hard on the deer herd.

[mainebowhunter]

And to add to this, we have a group of us that all share photos, intel and what we see. So get a pretty good overview of what happened the previous season. One of my buddies owns a variety store that tags deer...so he has his workers take pics of the deer that are checked in. That way he kind of knows who is around. On an average year, he loses 50% of the bucks he was chasing from 3.5 to 5.5 yr olds.

In this state, because of the land use laws, there really is not public land. Its not poaching to see a big buck in a NON POSTED field, step 20ft of the road and shoot. Perfectly legal. Lots of road hunters. And its perfectly legal as long as you step off the main road.

[JoeRE]

I will venture to say that at least here, I see a huge transition towards general "big buck behaviors" from 2 to 3, and then another equally impressive transition between 3 and 4.

Yea I think that is accurate here too, probably most places. Biggest change in behavior is 2 to 3, followed closely by 3 to 4. Bucks beyond 4 display more and more individual behaviors but generally more reclusive, more nocturnal, and smaller home ranges consisting of the safest areas. Once they are age 6 or 7 or so, a vary rare animal, that trend sometimes starts to reverse. I always wondered if dementia can start to set in at that point. Some bucks remain very reclusive to old age though.

[Hawthorne]

I will venture to say that at least here, I see a huge transition towards general "big buck behaviors" from 2 to 3, and then another equally impressive transition between 3 and 4.

Yea I think that is accurate here too, probably most places. Biggest change in behavior is 2 to 3, followed closely by 3 to 4. Bucks beyond 4 display more and more individual behaviors but generally more reclusive, more nocturnal, and smaller home ranges consisting of the safest areas. Once they are age 6 or 7 or so, a vary rare animal, that trend sometimes starts to reverse. I always wondered if dementia can start to set in at that point. Some bucks remain very reclusive to old age though.

What are the general changes in behavior from 2-3 you guys talk about? 3.5s are usually the dominant bucks in my area. That's the age I call them mature. I know in some states they don't consider that mature

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[Rich M]

Gotta be the nocturnal thing. They tend to disappear when they hit 3.5.