Cameras, apple trees and deers reactions
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Cameras, apple trees and deers reactions
Its really interesting as I read through a lot of stuff on this board about spooking deer, hunting beds, intrusion...that sort of thing. Over the years, I have run a lot of cameras on apple trees. Its the nature of the beast, many times these cameras are 70-80yds from known beds. BUT its a food source. My observations have been, deer absorb the intrusion with checking the cameras. I have lots of pics of big bucks standing, feeding on apples right where I was standing only a few hours before. I check cameras once a week, early in the summer, its every 2 weeks. During the season, check cams when I hunt the spot.
Does it hurt me? At times, yep. Probably it does. But the information is worth the risk. The crazy part about this state, bedding and food can be almost one in the same. I would guess I take risks that many guys on here would not take.
Now I will say this, bucks still come in for the most part, right at last light or right at dawn or at night. I will also say, bucks are still very random and most have no pattern, even in August. Every once in a while, you will have a buck show during daylight 4 or 5 nights a week in daylight. If he does and its anywhere near season, he usually winds up dead. Part of the randomness is low deer densities. Its also part of the reason I do not do a lot of observation sits. 2 nights observing a food source really is not going to tell me a whole lot. Its also the reason for obsession I have with beds.
I have never run cameras in August, Sept anywhere outside of Maine. I have run cameras in urban spots that I travel to that have 40 deer per sq mile. Daylight photos go way up, just because there are more deer. I do not use trail cams to try and pattern deer...if there is a pattern, I capitalize on it. Most times, I just want to know a deer is in the area and shows himself during daylight. Helps me take an educated guess where to hunt.
So the questions I will throw out there...
1. Do you guys in higher deer densities see mature buck patterns even in the summer?
2. If a deer is spooked by intrusion, why would he continue to come back, even under the cover of darkness?
Does it hurt me? At times, yep. Probably it does. But the information is worth the risk. The crazy part about this state, bedding and food can be almost one in the same. I would guess I take risks that many guys on here would not take.
Now I will say this, bucks still come in for the most part, right at last light or right at dawn or at night. I will also say, bucks are still very random and most have no pattern, even in August. Every once in a while, you will have a buck show during daylight 4 or 5 nights a week in daylight. If he does and its anywhere near season, he usually winds up dead. Part of the randomness is low deer densities. Its also part of the reason I do not do a lot of observation sits. 2 nights observing a food source really is not going to tell me a whole lot. Its also the reason for obsession I have with beds.
I have never run cameras in August, Sept anywhere outside of Maine. I have run cameras in urban spots that I travel to that have 40 deer per sq mile. Daylight photos go way up, just because there are more deer. I do not use trail cams to try and pattern deer...if there is a pattern, I capitalize on it. Most times, I just want to know a deer is in the area and shows himself during daylight. Helps me take an educated guess where to hunt.
So the questions I will throw out there...
1. Do you guys in higher deer densities see mature buck patterns even in the summer?
2. If a deer is spooked by intrusion, why would he continue to come back, even under the cover of darkness?
- DeerDylan
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Re: Cameras, apple trees and deers reactions
I just really started using cameras for more tactical reasons last year so my experience is pretty limited on the camera front.
1. Yes, in higher deer density areas I see summer patterns on older bucks ( I consider 3.5 older) especially in agriculture areas. That's mainly from glassing. Bed to food and waiting for the thermals to switch in the evening. As soon as the thermals switch I see them drop down from the hills to ag. with dropping thermals to their back. That all changes right around when crops start turning/ acorns start dropping and everyone starts getting stands ready for the opener. They still move obviously but not like before.
2. I can't say for sure but to me deer feel a lot safer under darkness. I also think deer are a lot more curious than people think.
I've always been super paranoid about burning spots and spooking bucks prior to season maybe to a fault.
1. Yes, in higher deer density areas I see summer patterns on older bucks ( I consider 3.5 older) especially in agriculture areas. That's mainly from glassing. Bed to food and waiting for the thermals to switch in the evening. As soon as the thermals switch I see them drop down from the hills to ag. with dropping thermals to their back. That all changes right around when crops start turning/ acorns start dropping and everyone starts getting stands ready for the opener. They still move obviously but not like before.
2. I can't say for sure but to me deer feel a lot safer under darkness. I also think deer are a lot more curious than people think.
I've always been super paranoid about burning spots and spooking bucks prior to season maybe to a fault.
- Hawthorne
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Re: Cameras, apple trees and deers reactions
Where I hunt might be 30-40DPSM in summer and I've still never been able to get a mature buck pattern with cameras. They night show once a month. I've seen better patterns doing summer observations sits. Of course my area doesn't have a high population of mature bucks. Usually only a couple 3.5 or older in the area.
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Re: Cameras, apple trees and deers reactions
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- DaveT1963
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Re: Cameras, apple trees and deers reactions
I personally believe the more human encounters deer have that are non-threatening the more they tolerate human presence. Call it conditioning or whatever you like, but I know my deer at mineral sites learn to tolerate my scent after three to four years of running them every two weeks - however, I don't hunt them there so after 5 years of doing this I believe they have come to accept me as a non threat there. I have seen deer bedding right in the middle of a golf course that doesn't allow hunting and the folks dang near have to slap them in the rear to get them off the fairways - 200 yards away on the public land these deer won't let you get anywhere near them.
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Re: Cameras, apple trees and deers reactions
DaveT1963 wrote:I personally believe the more human encounters deer have that are non-threatening the more they tolerate human presence. Call it conditioning or whatever you like, but I know my deer at mineral sites learn to tolerate my scent after three to four years of running them every two weeks - however, I don't hunt them there so after 5 years of doing this I believe they have come to accept me as a non threat there. I have seen deer bedding right in the middle of a golf course that doesn't allow hunting and the folks dang near have to slap them in the rear to get them off the fairways - 200 yards away on the public land these deer won't let you get anywhere near them.
That would be my personal observation as well. One of my best spots, I watch mature bucks come out and feed on apples 60-70yds from someones house. Nowhere else in any of my spots have I seen this. My buddy has a spot where August / Sept bucks show up in the wide open to feed on apples...60-70yds from the road. They have other food sources deeper in the woods...yet they choose to feed there. In fact, guy has killed a few of them there...when people stop to watch deer, if they spook, he knows where they will go.
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Re: Cameras, apple trees and deers reactions
Date is correct the year is either 2012 or 13 - I forget exactly...
Time is correct though.
I have spent 3/4 of my life ( ) and darn vacation time up north hunting End of Oct - 2nd week in Nov.
You know the Bill Winke and Dr. Alheimer fabled Nov-7-11th magical period.
The last few years has finally awaken me (paying CLOSE attention) to the fact that the deer I'm hunting and/or style of my hunting move more Mid-Late Nov for mature 3+ Bucks...
Time is correct though.
I have spent 3/4 of my life ( ) and darn vacation time up north hunting End of Oct - 2nd week in Nov.
You know the Bill Winke and Dr. Alheimer fabled Nov-7-11th magical period.
The last few years has finally awaken me (paying CLOSE attention) to the fact that the deer I'm hunting and/or style of my hunting move more Mid-Late Nov for mature 3+ Bucks...
Expect the Unexpected when you least Expect it...
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Re: Cameras, apple trees and deers reactions
Hawthorne wrote:Where I hunt might be 30-40DPSM in summer and I've still never been able to get a mature buck pattern with cameras. They night show once a month. I've seen better patterns doing summer observations sits. Of course my area doesn't have a high population of mature bucks. Usually only a couple 3.5 or older in the area.
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Interesting. 2013 I got a 5yr old buck to show up at end of August, into Sept 14 different days in daylight. BUT as end of Sept neared, he started coming in more at night, well before I even started to hunt him. 2 bucks over 3.5 were using this spot regularly.
2013 was a STUPID year as far as big bucks on camera go. Best year ever. I made a mistake and did not focus on killing him...was hunting other bucks in a different spot. Because of the buck numbers, last week of October was FANTASTIC.
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Re: Cameras, apple trees and deers reactions
Edcyclopedia wrote:Date is correct the year is either 2012 or 13 - I forget exactly...
Time is correct though.
I have spent 3/4 of my life ( ) and darn vacation time up north hunting End of Oct - 2nd week in Nov.
You know the Bill Winke and Dr. Alheimer fabled Nov-7-11th magical period.
The last few years has finally awaken me (paying CLOSE attention) to the fact that the deer I'm hunting and/or style of my hunting move more Mid-Late Nov for mature 3+ Bucks...
Its not really a fabled time, killed some great bucks in midwest during that time...but in the Northeast with buck to doe ratios out of whack, first 2 weeks of November are not usually the best. My hunting buds and I pool all of our cam knowledge together and the consensus is the 3rd week. This year, it was 19-26 seemed to be when big bucks were on their feet looking for last few does.
I see the same thing in the midwest...15th on has been a great time also.
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Re: Cameras, apple trees and deers reactions
That date was correct... How time flies & how brains fade - LOL
I was close to him a few weeks later - at least I think it was him by his hoof...
He was on the chase for a girl friend!
I was a rabid hunter that season trying to get a big bite out of this buck!!!
I was close to him a few weeks later - at least I think it was him by his hoof...
He was on the chase for a girl friend!
I was a rabid hunter that season trying to get a big bite out of this buck!!!
Expect the Unexpected when you least Expect it...
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Re: Cameras, apple trees and deers reactions
Yeah - I was being facetious about the 7-11 = My area of the Big Woods and elevation I believe lends itself to later breeding.
Natures way of protecting there young for a good spring hatch
Natures way of protecting there young for a good spring hatch
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Re: Cameras, apple trees and deers reactions
Edcyclopedia wrote:Yeah - I was being facetious about the 7-11 = My area of the Big Woods and elevation I believe lends itself to later breeding.
Natures way of protecting there young for a good spring hatch
Honestly, I think they are breeding heavy during that time. Thats why you do not see many of the bucks. I see everything ramp up around last week of October. Then cams in November are pretty slow with mature bucks ...which would say lockdown.
In Maine, our does are protected...probably 2 much. So ratios are far out of whack. Bucks are pretty busy breeding, hence, it seems as though the rut is just not happening. Once the does are bred out, big bucks back on feet cruising, looking for does.
Kind of works same way in midwest. 15-20 of november is a great time to see 4-5yr old bucks on their feet more.
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Re: Cameras, apple trees and deers reactions
Edcyclopedia wrote:Date is correct the year is either 2012 or 13 - I forget exactly...
Time is correct though.
I have spent 3/4 of my life ( ) and darn vacation time up north hunting End of Oct - 2nd week in Nov.
You know the Bill Winke and Dr. Alheimer fabled Nov-7-11th magical period.
The last few years has finally awaken me (paying CLOSE attention) to the fact that the deer I'm hunting and/or style of my hunting move more Mid-Late Nov for mature 3+ Bucks...
Ed I have never hunted your part of the country but my experience is that this may be due to the peak just ending, bucks still horny and far fewer "ripe" does - i.e they have to go looking harder and further to find a girlfriend?
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Re: Cameras, apple trees and deers reactions
DeerDylan wrote:I just really started using cameras for more tactical reasons last year so my experience is pretty limited on the camera front.
1. Yes, in higher deer density areas I see summer patterns on older bucks ( I consider 3.5 older) especially in agriculture areas. That's mainly from glassing. Bed to food and waiting for the thermals to switch in the evening. As soon as the thermals switch I see them drop down from the hills to ag. with dropping thermals to their back. That all changes right around when crops start turning/ acorns start dropping and everyone starts getting stands ready for the opener. They still move obviously but not like before.
2. I can't say for sure but to me deer feel a lot safer under darkness. I also think deer are a lot more curious than people think.
I've always been super paranoid about burning spots and spooking bucks prior to season maybe to a fault.
DD and I are from the same state so my observations are similar. Changing food sources, the break up of bachelor groups, pre-hunting pressure, available water make patterning bucks here a low success situation on public ground come opening day which is the beginning of October in most of the state.
Our "rut" was very weird this year. Chasing and seeking was very limited in my areas. My trail cams showed that November 9th was the best day for big buck movement.
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