Let's Talk Playing The Wind

[dan]

This is a bit off topic but I've often thought that if you could hunt with someone you trusted, you cou put someone on each side of a known bed in hill country and between the two of you, you would have a great shot at putting one on the ground. Has anyone on here tried this.

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Yea, in spots where the buck has two exit trails this can be a great tactic.

[Uncle Lou]

What a great thread. I understand why everyone isn't a BEAST when I read through a topic like this one. I think my brain is going to explode just trying to comprehend all this.

[Uncle Lou]

hope I didnt kill this thread with the head explosion. What is that commercial where the heads all explode, I got to get that as an emoji or something.

This deserves some more views before it goes to page 2

[Divergent]

This is an over-simplified drawing of what I was referring to about hunting a travel corridor and not a solo bed. Let's assume that scouting has determined the bucks use this elevation and bench to travel from west to east (doe bedding to doe bedding during pre-rut) in the morning. Old rub lines and trial cameras can clue you into the exact elevation and travel preference and in some cases when they are doing it. Let's further assume the red line illustrates a bench the bucks like to travel along. The blue arrow indicates the wind for the day and the smaller yellow arrow indicates thermal wind direction in the AM (once temps heat up and cause the thermals to kick in). The green is my morning approach.




The two orange stars are where I usually find most people trying to set up based on wind direction or thermals. The problem with this approach is that if the buck comes through prior to thermals (morning illustration) he will bust you in the north stand and thus the stand to the south would be better. However, if he comes in after thermals kick in, the south stand would get you busted. It is a never ending game trying to pick which will overpower the other at either stand and falling temps, cloud cover, wind shifts, etc., can all effect when and if thermals will kick in and/or override normal winds. The other option is at the head of the header where they cross but once again wind and thermals will change and can bust you. You could also set up on the opposite side (ravine header is the funnel) I personally prefer to set up before they get to the funnel as opposed to after the exit the funnel. My reasoning is that I feel funnels catch their attention and they will focus in on the funnel area - after they pass through they tend to meander with their attention and are more likely to pick you up drawing your bow, positioning, etc...)

So I would set up at the yellow star for a pre-rut stand. In this example a ravine will force the buck to head either into the wind and with the thermal to his back (assuming the thermal has kicked in). He will do this because of the steepness of the ravine where I have my stand and he will naturally head towards an easier crossing (more level ground higher up the header) Either way he will not pick up your scent until after a shot is presented. And in most cases you will have an additional thermal or wind effect caused by the creek/ravine that will further enhance your wind not getting to the bucks nose.

This is a very over-simplified drawing but illustrates using natural or created restrictions that for a moment alter the bucks preferred movement using the wind and shifting it to you favor. This same tactic/approach can be used in the late afternoon as a buck leaves his bedding. Instead of relying on the Thermal Tunnel, I prefer to find an ambush spot that the bucks are using during daylight and that forces them to go into a wind advantage travel pattern for me. This is one of the key concepts that Barry goes over in his Whitetail boot camps - using these specific situations to catch a buck, that for the most part uses the wind to travel, and yet temporarily forgoes the wind advantage due to ease of travel. In some cases the best approach may be from the top really depends on where you are hunting.

Great points DaveT1963

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[Tufrthnails]

What a great thread. I understand why everyone isn't a BEAST when I read through a topic like this one. I think my brain is going to explode just trying to comprehend all this.

Don't feel bad I feel the exact same way. Thermals seriously baffle me. I just read through these 4 pages and I can't remember what I read on the first page now! I was staring at a topo of a swamp spot I hunt trying to figure out what the thermals would be doing while reading this and trying to apply it as I go now the topo is a serous rainbow of crazy lines and makes no sense whatsoever to me. Time to print a fresh topo and read this again. I think I'm gonna order the Hill country DVD. I have a feeling thermals may be the culprit I have been missing in several of the times I have been busted with a favorable wind and just couldn't figure out why my setup failed.

[Uncle Lou]

What a great thread. I understand why everyone isn't a BEAST when I read through a topic like this one. I think my brain is going to explode just trying to comprehend all this.

Don't feel bad I feel the exact same way. Thermals seriously baffle me. I just read through these 4 pages and I can't remember what I read on the first page now! I was staring at a topo of a swamp spot I hunt trying to figure out what the thermals would be doing while reading this and trying to apply it as I go now the topo is a serous rainbow of crazy lines and makes no sense whatsoever to me. Time to print a fresh topo and read this again. I think I'm gonna order the Hill country DVD. I have a feeling thermals may be the culprit I have been missing in several of the times I have been busted with a favorable wind and just couldn't figure out why my setup failed.

I think to keep our heads from exploding we have to get a couple of key concepts in our head, then go drop milk weed and see it. Once we see it and experience it, then it can become second nature. The offseason is a great time for experimenting with milkweed.

I think I am going to start using more milkweed from the boat. I am sure I am not the only one to notice how when we are drifting or anchored we are spinning a bit. I think what makes the boat change directions on a drift, or spin around when anchored are the swirl effects resulting from variable wind speeds or from effects from near shore topography.

Dan taught me something very useful when I first met him. I told him when I am on stand the wind will hit me in both ears, the face and the back of my neck on most sits during a west wind sit. He said we get swirls from gusts, or topography, etc., but dropping milk weed you can see what is going on 10-20 yards or more away, and that is where it could be more important. I hope I said that right.

[warhog23]

So everyone who wants to kill big bucks plays the wind, but how close do you cut it? Give me examples if possible. Are you one of those people that will only hunt when the wind is perfectly in your favor, or will you make the deer feel like they have the wind in they're favor.

The reason I ask is because I hunt almost exclusively in hill country, buck bedding is fairly wind dependent, and I feel like most of the time in order to hunt the bed I'm always cutting it close. I believe it's costing me encounters.

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For example if the deer will bust u on a north wind but a west wind he avoids the area bc he doesnt have a sense of security so maybe hunt with a north west wind and i like to get close but i think when people talk and say they maybe want to push further in then they dont have all the pieces to exactly what they should be doing or where they should be set up at... Of course yes u cant always know everything but if u know of a buck that is bedded in a spot and ur trying to figure on the right wind then maybe set up overlooking the spot where the buck does in fact bed and watch what he does when he gets up and take note of what the wind was like for the day and then mive in when the conditions say he could do the same once more... Most people just dive in and try to kill a buck once they know where they've been at or where they bed or anything else... The moral is to know that ur going in a bulletproof set up and thr only way the buck will know u were there is if u miss ur shot... Trust me i know, hate to admit it but it made me a better hunter and bowman in it

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[warhog23]

Ya milkweed is boss for telling the correct wind if u know of a possible spot that u want to hunt and prepping ur trees now is the time to do it... Dont wait till summer to do it, get what needs to be done that u know should be done NOW bc come summer u should be scouting for more deer info and a hoard of other things...

Like fishing

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[Hawthorne]

I got busted this year by some does from vacuum. Most times that i threw milkweed that evening it was good. I was just sitting there and one of the milkweeds I threw out earlier was all of a sudden blowing back the other way. Some does came in and fed in front of me for awhile until one of the gust blew there way and they bolted. It was a lesson learned I should of moved. I was on the edge of a field in late season were I saw a bachelor group of bucks walk the evening before.

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[DaveT1963]

A lot of people talk about playing the wind. They find tracks, a rub, scrape, travel corridor/funnel or bed and set up 20-40 yards from it to where the wind will be in their advantage. And it works. But experience has taught me to take it one step further. Probably out of necessity since I prefer morning set ups?

Anyways, I don't play the wind per se. I play how I anticipate a MATURE BUCK PLAYS THE WIND. If you only focus on a destination spot (ie. bed, lone oak, crop field, doe bedding, YOUR STAND SITE, etc.) and set up for the wind based on just that you might be shorting yourself. Mature bucks are doing the same thing, only to higher level. With their noses, mature animals have long since learned to play the wind (scent checking, J hooking, whatever you want to call it) a lot further out then what most of us archery types can shoot. So we tend to set up short of where they will ultimately scent check from and the end result is usually that a mature buck will be coming in downwind of your location.

When I switched my focus from "playing the wind" based off a location to "playing the wind" based off how the buck will use it to scent check a destination spot, I found that I was typically setting up further away and downwind of the closest cover and wound up with more shop opportunities on mature animals. In fact, I believe I get away with a lot more movement because their attention is riveted on the destination point and the sights, sounds and smells in between that they didn't notice my shaking body in a tree 20 yards downwind. It is a small tweak at times but it can make all the difference IMHO.

[Rich M]

When I switched my focus from "playing the wind" based off a location to "playing the wind" based off how the buck will use it to scent check a destination spot, I found that I was typically setting up further away and downwind of the closest cover and wound up with more shop opportunities on mature animals. In fact, I believe I get away with a lot more movement because their attention is riveted on the destination point and the sights, sounds and smells in between that they didn't notice my shaking body in a tree 20 yards downwind. It is a small tweak at times but it can make all the difference IMHO.

Dave, Can you share some more details? This is what I think I'll need to be doing this fall.

[DaveT1963]

I'll expand on it later as I'm heading out for four days of scouting. It really is just thinking about how a buck will approach a destination using his eyes and more importantly his nose. Once you figure out how a mature animal will approach then you set up downwind of that. I'll use an analogy about us humans. When it comes to security at it home we basically use two senses. We use ears and we use our eyes. So in our homes, for our safety, we install things to alert of us danger... Lights and alarms. Where and when are we most vulnerable? I don't think it is in our bedroom most of the time... probably not even inside our home itself as we know where all the light switches are, guns are hidden, escape routes, phone locations, hiding spots, etc..... I believe we are most vulnerable at night as we approach our front door. We usually come at the front door the same exact way and we tend to do it to make use of ease of travel and to use the light to help us see better.... And while we approach that door where is our focus/attention? On the front door! So we use the light to our advantage as we approach the door. thus we are most vulnerable to an attack just before we get to the door from our dark side.

Now apply that to a deer. First I have to say that I do not believe deer are as super smart as we like to believe. They just have great senses and survival instincts. Let's look at a typical evening destination spot, a small isolated Oak Ridge near a mature bucks bedding. A mature Buck, especially if he's pressured, is going to use his nose, and his eyes, as he prepares to enter that area. The more we know about deer and the terrain features the more we will understand how far down wind that area he is likely to approach from tends to be. We can also look for thickness of cover, elevation or dips in terrain, downwind so the buck not only can use his nose to scent check the area but he has cover to hide his movement while he visually checks the area. As we study the terrain carefully, thinking of wind current and obstacles, we can usually determine approximately how far down wind of a destination spot the Buck will have the most advantage with his nose and still have cover. Once we determine this, we can set up 20 yards down wind of that approach. The beauty of this kind of setup is that the buck knows the danger will usually come at his destination point so that's where his attention is going to be focused as he is approaching it. Thus we set up downwind and increase our advantage. Now apply this to doe bedding, scrape, water hole, buck bedding, etc., close to his core area... This is where he is likely to be spending the majority of his time. Yes it's true that there are always out layers and sometimes a buck will indeed not use the wind to his advantage.... but that is the exception and I think it's wise if we understand that the Bucks primary defenses against danger are his eyes and his nose and to think about that when we are determining where he is vulnerable as he approaches these destination spots. Before I started to try to think how a buck would approach, my set ups were typically 40 yards or so from the destination spot...... now I am usually 100-200 yards from it. True I might miss a buck that forgoes the wind and just walks right in to it, but I will give up that scenario to play the odds that the kind of buck I want is not going to make that move/mistake very often.

I keep talking about destination spots because far too many Hunters just set up in the woods on "good visual sign" when its obviously not a routine travel pattern of a buck.... It's more random wandering. Destination spots are usually not random and thus they are higher percentage set ups and more predictable as to how a mature buck will get there.

This is a very quick overview, and I'm not implying this is easy.... it takes a lot of study and scouting to figure these things out on a mature buck. But when we understand an animal and the terrain to this level it definitely ups our ability to set up on them. And nothing is 100% you'll set up often with no shot.... However, when and if you get it right, my experience is that when and if he does show up you will more then likely be in the game and have a shot opportunity.

This is one tactic; I also look for those places where terrain or another factor temporarily alter a bucks travel to take him out of a scent/wind advantage as I explained previously.

Perhaps some other beasts will add their experiences on these set ups as I would think this is a pretty common approach.

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[csoult]

Something to help with thermals.

[jwilkstn]

Another fantastic thread here. Looks worthy of an all time best tactical posts consideration

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[dan]

Another fantastic thread here. Looks worthy of an all time best tactical posts consideration

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iTS ALREADY THERE IN THE WIND AND THERMALS SECTION.