flat swamp land just schooled me!

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Re: flat swamp land just schooled me!

Unread postby Lockdown » Tue Feb 23, 2016 4:54 am

Keep an eye out for scrapes too. If there's a big well used primary scrape in the middle of that mess, it might get visited during daylight. Maybe hang a camera over it and get a season of intel?? Just another thing to think about.

As far as my farm grove you mentioned, want to know why I have it figured out? I've hunted it and ran camera in there for five years. Don't expect to figure your spots out right off the bat. It takes time.

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Re: flat swamp land just schooled me!

Unread postby dirt nap giver » Tue Feb 23, 2016 5:06 am

Before diving into a swamp with little to no prior knowledge, I want to see transition as others have said, but I also want to see what terrain, topo features are around that swamp. Is there a creek flowing through it? It has been my experience through cyber scouting that hills, ridges, saddles and elevation features adjacent to the swamp will have travel routes that lead them to the swamp. Deer are terrain oriented animals. What terrain adjacent to this swamp leads me to believe that deer are using it? Something is leading them to this swamp............. Starting with the perimeter, I can transfer that information into what the middle looks like. If 1/4 of the swamp has terrain features adjacent to it, I will only dive into the middle of the swamp that relates to the 1/4 section features, but not until the perimeter of the same 1/4 section has been scouted.
Bring a map with you to mark it up.

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Re: flat swamp land just schooled me!

Unread postby hunter_mike » Tue Feb 23, 2016 6:33 am

Check out your county GIS website. Some of them have very detailed LIDAR scans that show topo lines down to 1 ft of variance. You may be able to see a contour line showing where the dry ground/wet ground is.
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Re: flat swamp land just schooled me!

Unread postby Buckhunter » Tue Feb 23, 2016 9:13 am

This thread is great making me even more excited for the DVD too
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Re: flat swamp land just schooled me!

Unread postby Outdoor814 » Tue Feb 23, 2016 9:30 am

Could also be the time of year your scouting. I know some of the place I'm scouting now will dry up a decent amount once the summer months approach. I wouldn't give up on it. But maybe it's just the wrong time of year to be in there.

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Re: flat swamp land just schooled me!

Unread postby ThePreBanMan » Tue Feb 23, 2016 11:52 am

That's the kind of terrain I hunt in almost exclusively. It's just all that's available in SE Massachusetts. Hill country is to the north or west in the state. But the SE where I roam is all swamps and cranberry bogs. Exactly like you describe. Except our under story is thicker.. Like need loppers and a machete kind of thick.

What I do it this....

In this time of year when I scout I walk the deer trails. All the trails I can find that I haven't previously walked. I keep a fast pace. I may make note of rubs and scrapes, etc. but my primary goal is to cover ground. The reason being is that my GPS is tracking my path. So end result being that I now have a map of all the deer trails. This is necessary because unlike the marshes I see on the videos - you can't see their trails through swamps from aerials.

I then go home and plug all this information into my PC. Usually Google Earth but sometimes I also use Garmin's base camp. I've exported a topo map from caltopo and put that into Google Earth as well. So now I have their trails on an overlay of an aerial and/or topo map. Now I can examine the terrain and compare the trails to see if I can determine why the deer visit certain areas. What times I think they'll be there, etc. I try to identify general feeding areas and bedding areas and set up on a trail between... Closer to what I think is bedding. Use the time lapse feature in Google Earth to look at aerials from the winter. Generally the lack of leave cover lets you identify water more easily. Walk the transitions of those swampy areas.

You'll usually find trails between where the thick stuff transitions to stuff that's passable without a bulldozer. Deer like to bed in that super thick cover - but they don't generally like to walk through it. So you'll find their trails traveling the path of least resistance. Where they turn into the thick thick stuff - you probably found a bedding area.

I'll tell you it's tough going. I'm in the wrong spot 95% of the time. One other observation. At least in my state... The deer that roam these lands tend to be smaller. What I've seen guys call small deer on this site are studs in my neighborhood. Also the deer may have antler deformations in some cases. That's from making their way through the thick crap while they're still in velvet. It can fire them up...


I could be doing it all wrong thought so I'm interested to hear what others do..
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Re: flat swamp land just schooled me!

Unread postby Lockdown » Tue Feb 23, 2016 1:35 pm

hunter10 wrote:Lockdown, I'm wondering if this type of land all thick like this can be hunted like your grove you have talked about in the past. Being that it's so think, do you find it easier to get into place off the field edge without busting them out? Thanks

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Yes.

I mainly stick to the edges of the grove, because it is about 80 yards wide x 300 yards long. The middle of the grove is split by driveway and mowed grass. Essentially, each half is 80 yards wide by 150 yards long. Regardless of what end I hunt, potentially I'm not far from bedded deer no matter where I set up.

I did push the envelope last year, and set up on the ground about 30 yards from the East edge and about 70 yards from the North border. That's pretty close to smack dab in the middle. I was pretty sure I could get in there without bumping anything because they tend to stay away from the farmers house, and I was probably 125 yards from it. Also I have combed every inch of that grove and I knew most of the beds on that end weren't within sight of my set up. I snuck in and it worked out.

There was a light rain that day so that was a big benefit for getting in quiet. So keep that in mind.

As always there's a lot of luck involved.

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Re: flat swamp land just schooled me!

Unread postby fishlips » Tue Feb 23, 2016 3:15 pm

ThePreBanMan wrote:That's the kind of terrain I hunt in almost exclusively. It's just all that's available in SE Massachusetts. Hill country is to the north or west in the state. But the SE where I roam is all swamps and cranberry bogs. Exactly like you describe. Except our under story is thicker.. Like need loppers and a machete kind of thick.

What I do it this....

In this time of year when I scout I walk the deer trails. All the trails I can find that I haven't previously walked. I keep a fast pace. I may make note of rubs and scrapes, etc. but my primary goal is to cover ground. The reason being is that my GPS is tracking my path. So end result being that I now have a map of all the deer trails. This is necessary because unlike the marshes I see on the videos - you can't see their trails through swamps from aerials.

I then go home and plug all this information into my PC. Usually Google Earth but sometimes I also use Garmin's base camp. I've exported a topo map from caltopo and put that into Google Earth as well. So now I have their trails on an overlay of an aerial and/or topo map. Now I can examine the terrain and compare the trails to see if I can determine why the deer visit certain areas. What times I think they'll be there, etc. I try to identify general feeding areas and bedding areas and set up on a trail between... Closer to what I think is bedding. Use the time lapse feature in Google Earth to look at aerials from the winter. Generally the lack of leave cover lets you identify water more easily. Walk the transitions of those swampy areas.

You'll usually find trails between where the thick stuff transitions to stuff that's passable without a bulldozer. Deer like to bed in that super thick cover - but they don't generally like to walk through it. So you'll find their trails traveling the path of least resistance. Where they turn into the thick thick stuff - you probably found a bedding area.

I'll tell you it's tough going. I'm in the wrong spot 95% of the time. One other observation. At least in my state... The deer that roam these lands tend to be smaller. What I've seen guys call small deer on this site are studs in my neighborhood. Also the deer may have antler deformations in some cases. That's from making their way through the thick crap while they're still in velvet. It can fire them up...


I could be doing it all wrong thought so I'm interested to hear what others do..


Good stuff.

Are you saying that the deer are smaller relative to the immediate area?
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Re: flat swamp land just schooled me!

Unread postby PK_ » Tue Feb 23, 2016 3:48 pm

You say flat farm land. Can you glass or shine to see what is coming out and where?

Possible to walk the perimeter after a fresh snow?

I cannot see there being a 100 acre swampy thicket in the middle of farm country that has whitetails around that wouldn't be dynamite…
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Re: flat swamp land just schooled me!

Unread postby hunter10 » Tue Feb 23, 2016 11:06 pm

Pk, that is what stumps me as well but on the initial scout there was little for sign but another indepth scout will hopefully turn up something. The reasoning for it being all wet is because it is slightly lower than all surrounding fields so all the field run off ends up in the woods. I can glass the place only on the south side and have seen a hand full of does recently. Where they Come out has been dependent on the guys next door cutting firewood

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Re: flat swamp land just schooled me!

Unread postby ThePreBanMan » Wed Feb 24, 2016 3:33 am


Are you saying that the deer are smaller relative to the immediate area?


Not to the immediate area so much as the north or western parts of the state. They never really develop big racks in our woods. If they did they wouldn't be able to get around very easily. So maybe it's an evolutionary thing. Don't know. But a 4 year old deer here (aged at a check station by a biologist) typically won't break 100 inches or much more than 120ish pounds dressed.
I'm sure it has a lot to do with available food too. We don't have those huge farms I hear others talk about. A few acres out here is a big lot... Most of our crops are cranberries which deer will eat. But generally only if nothing else is available. Our trees are mostly red oaks too. Not the best. Lastly our forests are poorly managed. So we don't have any prescribed burns, etc. The end result is that the hardwoods are all old timber and too tall for the deer to reach the leaves. So the end result is we typically have smaller deer. We are one of the worst states for pope and young harvests... That's not to say there are no big deer. Just fewer of them.

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Re: flat swamp land just schooled me!

Unread postby mainebowhunter » Wed Feb 24, 2016 6:12 am

ThePreBanMan wrote:

Are you saying that the deer are smaller relative to the immediate area?


Not to the immediate area so much as the north or western parts of the state. They never really develop big racks in our woods. If they did they wouldn't be able to get around very easily. So maybe it's an evolutionary thing. Don't know. But a 4 year old deer here (aged at a check station by a biologist) typically won't break 100 inches or much more than 120ish pounds dressed.
I'm sure it has a lot to do with available food too. We don't have those huge farms I hear others talk about. A few acres out here is a big lot... Most of our crops are cranberries which deer will eat. But generally only if nothing else is available. Our trees are mostly red oaks too. Not the best. Lastly our forests are poorly managed. So we don't have any prescribed burns, etc. The end result is that the hardwoods are all old timber and too tall for the deer to reach the leaves. So the end result is we typically have smaller deer. We are one of the worst states for pope and young harvests... That's not to say there are no big deer. Just fewer of them.

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Not sure what part of SE mass your in. I have hunted SE Mass a bunch -- inlaws live in Wareham. So I have hunted all over Middeborough, Raynham, Bridgewater...the terrain is nasty. Lots of green briar and water. Brutal to scout unless trail has been cut. Food sources are tough unless you catch a good acorn dorp. The deer seem to be the same size body wise as anywhere else. Its a tough area of mass to hunt. Have shot a couple bucks but nothing giant. I am only their for 3-4days over Thanksgiving.

BUT all SE mass is not equal. When Reedys check station was running all of the check in pics, it was pretty sick the giants they were killing with archery gear. Suburbia mass can be killer when the bucks are on the cruise. Its all about funnels and pinchpoints. Most guys are killing the bucks right around the end of Oct into Nov. No rifle hunting during the rut.

The hunting pressure is fierce around the time that I am their. Granted, its probably the highest hunting traffic all year. But its tough to get away from people.
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Re: flat swamp land just schooled me!

Unread postby Florida » Wed Feb 24, 2016 7:22 am

Good thread guys. It's funny how Mass can sound similar to FL.

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Re: flat swamp land just schooled me!

Unread postby mainebowhunter » Wed Feb 24, 2016 7:46 am

Here are some of the bow kill deer from Reedys Archery. Website is kind of screwed up...but the photos still work.
http://reedysarchery.com/check-station-photos/
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Re: flat swamp land just schooled me!

Unread postby ThePreBanMan » Wed Feb 24, 2016 12:24 pm

mainebowhunter wrote:
Not sure what part of SE mass your in. I have hunted SE Mass a bunch -- inlaws live in Wareham. So I have hunted all over Middeborough, Raynham, Bridgewater...the terrain is nasty. Lots of green briar and water. Brutal to scout unless trail has been cut. Food sources are tough unless you catch a good acorn dorp. The deer seem to be the same size body wise as anywhere else. Its a tough area of mass to hunt. Have shot a couple bucks but nothing giant. I am only their for 3-4days over Thanksgiving.

BUT all SE mass is not equal. When Reedys check station was running all of the check in pics, it was pretty sick the giants they were killing with archery gear. Suburbia mass can be killer when the bucks are on the cruise. Its all about funnels and pinchpoints. Most guys are killing the bucks right around the end of Oct into Nov. No rifle hunting during the rut.

The hunting pressure is fierce around the time that I am their. Granted, its probably the highest hunting traffic all year. But its tough to get away from people.


Pretty much sums it up. I'm in Rochester/Marion mostly. There's no rifle season at all here. With our woods being smaller lots the state has deemed rifle hunting too dangerous. But we have a 2 week shotgun season in early Dec and a 2 week primitive after that. I don't run into a lot of bow hunters in my neck of the woods. Lots of gun hunters during shotgun. I usually avoid hunting during that time. They trample the woods pretty hard.

Reedy's is a cool shop. The guy who owns it seems like a really nice guy. Place is always mobbed when I go. Sometimes its an hour before you can get help. They're about an hour from me. I would imagine they bring in people from all around. They have a reputation as one of the better pro shops. The closest check station to me is Freetown State Forest. I like to chat up the Fish and Game biologist to see what folks are bringing in. they do see deer like in those Reedy's pics but they're a rare occurrence...

....you got me thinking I need to venture further from home... I've kind of been eyeing Miles Standish but the pheasant stocking of the forest scares me. Bird hunters are whole other orange army on the march. With them waving their shotguns around at airborne targets while I'm in a tree in head to toe camo - just doesn't seem like a good time..


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