Human scent

[ridgerunner8]

Ok, so deer won't tolerate human scent near there bedding areas, so My question is if You have a mountain ridge with a dirt road running down the center that peaple and hunters use to access there spots by driving or walking with there scent blowing to the leeside , how are the deer going to react a quarter to a half mile away in there bedding areas ?

[whitetailassasin]

I believe deer know the difference between scent 1/4 mile away and 100 yards away when they smell it. Just as eluded to earlier, bucks can scent a specific doe and track her down. When deer come into contact with areas they normally smell human scent, they are alert but it's more the norm. When they come across human scent in the bedroom, it's time to leave, vacate, relocate. Especially mature deer. Just like you when you smell the faint smell of smoke but as you get closer you can begin to smell it stronger in the area it's coming from. Remember the reason they are bedding where they are is because it's void of human scent and it's safe there. If they relocated with every time they smelled human scent they would never have a bedding area. That's why it's so important for us having good entrance and exit strategies when pursuing an animal on his turf.

[ Post made via iPhone ]

[DaveT1963]

I believe deer know the difference between scent 1/4 mile away and 100 yards away when they smell it. Just as eluded to earlier, bucks can scent a specific doe and track her down. When deer come into contact with areas they normally smell human scent, they are alert but it's more the norm. When they come across human scent in the bedroom, it's time to leave, vacate, relocate. Especially mature deer. Just like you when you smell the faint smell of smoke but as you get closer you can begin to smell it stronger in the area it's coming from. Remember the reason they are bedding where they are is because it's void of human scent and it's safe there. If they relocated with every time they smelled human scent they would never have a bedding area. That's why it's so important for us having good entrance and exit strategies when pursuing an animal on his turf.

[ Post made via iPhone ]

Telemetry studies have show that older bucks seldom relocate far and not outside their core are which in most cases averaged around 75-150 acres. They do tend to adjust by going nocturnal, and outside of a push or the rut - they chance of killing them during daylight hours is diminished.

[mainebowhunter]

I believe deer know the difference between scent 1/4 mile away and 100 yards away when they smell it. Just as eluded to earlier, bucks can scent a specific doe and track her down. When deer come into contact with areas they normally smell human scent, they are alert but it's more the norm. When they come across human scent in the bedroom, it's time to leave, vacate, relocate. Especially mature deer. Just like you when you smell the faint smell of smoke but as you get closer you can begin to smell it stronger in the area it's coming from. Remember the reason they are bedding where they are is because it's void of human scent and it's safe there. If they relocated with every time they smelled human scent they would never have a bedding area. That's why it's so important for us having good entrance and exit strategies when pursuing an animal on his turf.

[ Post made via iPhone ]

Telemetry studies have show that older bucks seldom relocate far and not outside their core are which in most cases averaged around 75-150 acres. They do tend to adjust by going nocturnal, and outside of a push or the rut - they chance of killing them during daylight hours is diminished.

Go nocturnal? Not moving at all during daylight? They proved that in a study? I have never believed deer go nocturnal. I do believe they do not move much during daylight outside of their bed. But not laying in the their bed all day long, only getting up at dark.

I know when bucks go nocturnal on me, its because they are using a different bed. Call me crazy...but I find that hard to believe.

[DaveT1963]

I believe deer know the difference between scent 1/4 mile away and 100 yards away when they smell it. Just as eluded to earlier, bucks can scent a specific doe and track her down. When deer come into contact with areas they normally smell human scent, they are alert but it's more the norm. When they come across human scent in the bedroom, it's time to leave, vacate, relocate. Especially mature deer. Just like you when you smell the faint smell of smoke but as you get closer you can begin to smell it stronger in the area it's coming from. Remember the reason they are bedding where they are is because it's void of human scent and it's safe there. If they relocated with every time they smelled human scent they would never have a bedding area. That's why it's so important for us having good entrance and exit strategies when pursuing an animal on his turf.

[ Post made via iPhone ]

Telemetry studies have show that older bucks seldom relocate far and not outside their core are which in most cases averaged around 75-150 acres. They do tend to adjust by going nocturnal, and outside of a push or the rut - they chance of killing them during daylight hours is diminished.

Go nocturnal? Not moving at all during daylight? They proved that in a study? I have never believed deer go nocturnal. I do believe they do not move much during daylight outside of their bed. But not laying in the their bed all day long, only getting up at dark.

I know when bucks go nocturnal on me, its because they are using a different bed. Call me crazy...but I find that hard to believe.

No one said they don't move at all? The study showed that mature bucks usually live out their entire life in their core area and seldom relocate as so often believed. The nocturnal part was for ranging outside their core area (not their home range) Yes bucks get up and down out of beds frequently, but in highly pressured areas they don't move far, especially if humans keep entering their bedroom..... that is why I stated diminished.

Just because someone doesn't see a buck during daylight does not mean he moved...... in fact just the opposite is usually true - he just has THEM figured out.

[mainebowhunter]

I believe deer know the difference between scent 1/4 mile away and 100 yards away when they smell it. Just as eluded to earlier, bucks can scent a specific doe and track her down. When deer come into contact with areas they normally smell human scent, they are alert but it's more the norm. When they come across human scent in the bedroom, it's time to leave, vacate, relocate. Especially mature deer. Just like you when you smell the faint smell of smoke but as you get closer you can begin to smell it stronger in the area it's coming from. Remember the reason they are bedding where they are is because it's void of human scent and it's safe there. If they relocated with every time they smelled human scent they would never have a bedding area. That's why it's so important for us having good entrance and exit strategies when pursuing an animal on his turf.

[ Post made via iPhone ]

Telemetry studies have show that older bucks seldom relocate far and not outside their core are which in most cases averaged around 75-150 acres. They do tend to adjust by going nocturnal, and outside of a push or the rut - they chance of killing them during daylight hours is diminished.

Go nocturnal? Not moving at all during daylight? They proved that in a study? I have never believed deer go nocturnal. I do believe they do not move much during daylight outside of their bed. But not laying in the their bed all day long, only getting up at dark.

I know when bucks go nocturnal on me, its because they are using a different bed. Call me crazy...but I find that hard to believe.

No one said they don't move at all? The study showed that mature bucks usually live out their entire life in their core area and seldom relocate as so often believed. The nocturnal part was for ranging outside their core area (not their home range) Yes bucks get up and down out of beds frequently, but in highly pressured areas they don't move far, especially if humans keep entering their bedroom..... that is why I stated diminished.

Just because someone doesn't see a buck during daylight does not mean he moved...... in fact just the opposite is usually true - he just has THEM figured out.

Gotcha -- I was just trying to understand. I hear guys say nocturnal ...just because they are only getting pics of the buck at night. They never seem him on the food in daylight. Reality he is not bedding on their property OR he is staging and feeding somewhere else.

[mainebowhunter]

Something that has always intrigued me as it relates to human scent, let me throw this out there. IF a buck is spooked by you being in an area, he does not like what he smells. Why would he keep coming back under the cover of darkness to the same spot? So if he went "nocturnal" because he smelled you. He is OK with the scent at night..but not at dusk or dawn?

[DaveT1963]

Something that has always intrigued me as it relates to human scent, let me throw this out there. IF a buck is spooked by you being in an area, he does not like what he smells. Why would he keep coming back under the cover of darkness to the same spot? So if he went "nocturnal" because he smelled you. He is OK with the scent at night..but not at dusk or dawn?

I don't think they avoid areas like people think they do just because they pick up human scent. I think the deer learn to out smart them by avoiding them. I have seen a buck change his travel pattern by as few as 50 yards to avoid a hunters stand. I remember reading an article about Andrae years ago, way before internet, where he was discussing that big bucks don't abandon/leave their sanctuaries..... that is why he was doing the bump and dump. If I remember right, perhaps Dan can give better details or correct me if I am wrong, what he preached was that when a buck gets jumped from his bed and survives then in the bucks mind that spot proved it was good because he detected the hunter and escaped. in other words it re-assured him that his bedding spot was good. I took that to heart and I seldom go looking for my buck elsewhere when he becomes elusive. Where I see him in spring and summer I know that is his home range... then I try to figure out his core area within that range. I tend to hunt the outskirts of this core area and within his home range. I focus on the trails he likes to use to go and come from this sanctuary/bedding area.

Now I do believe if you are constantly badgering him in that spot he will eventually move - but it wont be far. There are nomadic bucks that like to wander more, especially during the rut, but outside of that these studies are showing that a large percentage of mature bucks spend up to 75% of their entire life in a relatively small core area - sometimes two core areas (75-150 acres or so) depending on the habitat and availability food, water, and cover. Northern deer and yarding might be an exception as I did not see mention of that?

In the last study I saw, bucks were reluctant to move even during floods and almost 40 or so of them drowned or starved to death because they simply would not leave their core area. And the vast majority returned back to the area as soon as the flood water returned to normal levels.

[mainebowhunter]

Something that has always intrigued me as it relates to human scent, let me throw this out there. IF a buck is spooked by you being in an area, he does not like what he smells. Why would he keep coming back under the cover of darkness to the same spot? So if he went "nocturnal" because he smelled you. He is OK with the scent at night..but not at dusk or dawn?

I don't think they avoid areas like people think they do just because they pick up human scent. I think the deer learn to out smart them by avoiding them. I have seen a buck change his travel pattern by as few as 50 yards to avoid a hunters stand. I remember reading an article about Andrae years ago, way before internet, where he was discussing that big bucks don't abandon/leave their sanctuaries..... that is why he was doing the bump and dump. If I remember right, perhaps Dan can give better details or correct me if I am wrong, what he preached was that when a buck gets jumped from his bed and survives then in the bucks mind that spot proved it was good because he detected the hunter and escaped. in other words it re-assured him that his bedding spot was good. I took that to heart and I seldom go looking for my buck elsewhere when he becomes elusive. Where I see him in spring and summer I know that is his home range... then I try to figure out his core area within that range. I tend to hunt the outskirts of this core area and within his home range. I focus on the trails he likes to use to go and come from this sanctuary/bedding area.

Now I do believe if you are constantly badgering him in that spot he will eventually move - but it wont be far. There are nomadic bucks that like to wander more, especially during the rut, but outside of that these studies are showing that a large percentage of mature bucks spend up to 75% of their entire life in a relatively small core area - sometimes two core areas (75-150 acres or so) depending on the habitat and availability food, water, and cover. Northern deer and yarding might be an exception as I did not see mention of that?

In the last study I saw, bucks were reluctant to move even during floods and almost 40 or so of them drowned or starved to death because they simply would not leave their core area. And the vast majority returned back to the area as soon as the flood water returned to normal levels.

Northern deer do shift...many have a winter range for sure. Its why winter scouting with snow is not really all that effective. That usually means some sort of softwood.

I would very much agree with you. As I chase these bucks, I am always trying to understand them. If everytime they encountered a human, they shifted, eventually there would be nowhere left to go. In the northeast, I chase deer a lot with trailcams. Mostly at hidden apple trees, next to bedding areas. My goal is not to pressure these bucks but to find them. And, many seasons, I am chasing 3.5yr old bucks at best, some seasons, older. But in order to just find them, you have to run a lot of trailcams. Bedding is everywhere. If you were trying to pin down individual beds without taking into consideration where they are feeding, the possibilities are endless.

When I run these cams, my tactic first is to find out if a mature buck is using this food source. If a buck shows up just after dark, I know I need to start working out from the apples to try and figure out where he is bedding. So much of the bedding is determined by whether that food source produces this year. Many times, these deer never have to even leave the cover to feed. Its what makes this style of hunting tough. Deer are bedded sometimes less than 70yds from the food source.

I post more on this site about this stuff...more than anywhere else. Mainly because I know most of the guys here are pretty serious. The learning never ends.

[mheichelbech]

Just curious, if a guy started a bait site and walked 2-3 times per week through the woods to replenish the bait site, would a resident buck, even he may not visit the bait site in daylight, become tolerant of the hunter's scent and perhaps be more vulnerable during the rut or late season because of the association of scent with the bait? Would he only tolerate that hunter's scent and not another hunter's scent?

To what extent is it possible to condition a buck to a hunter's scent?

I remember a podcast with Lee Lakosky in which he said the deer would tolerate their scent in the fields due to their feeding program but not tolerate it all in the woods.

I'm curious if it's possible to get a buck conditioned to tolerate your scent in some way of you didn't have a good access/exit trail to your stand?

[ Post made via iPhone ]

[Zona]

Something that has always intrigued me as it relates to human scent, let me throw this out there. IF a buck is spooked by you being in an area, he does not like what he smells. Why would he keep coming back under the cover of darkness to the same spot? So if he went "nocturnal" because he smelled you. He is OK with the scent at night..but not at dusk or dawn?

I don't think they avoid areas like people think they do just because they pick up human scent. I think the deer learn to out smart them by avoiding them. I have seen a buck change his travel pattern by as few as 50 yards to avoid a hunters stand. I remember reading an article about Andrae years ago, way before internet, where he was discussing that big bucks don't abandon/leave their sanctuaries..... that is why he was doing the bump and dump. If I remember right, perhaps Dan can give better details or correct me if I am wrong, what he preached was that when a buck gets jumped from his bed and survives then in the bucks mind that spot proved it was good because he detected the hunter and escaped. in other words it re-assured him that his bedding spot was good. I took that to heart and I seldom go looking for my buck elsewhere when he becomes elusive. Where I see him in spring and summer I know that is his home range... then I try to figure out his core area within that range. I tend to hunt the outskirts of this core area and within his home range. I focus on the trails he likes to use to go and come from this sanctuary/bedding area.

Now I do believe if you are constantly badgering him in that spot he will eventually move - but it wont be far. There are nomadic bucks that like to wander more, especially during the rut, but outside of that these studies are showing that a large percentage of mature bucks spend up to 75% of their entire life in a relatively small core area - sometimes two core areas (75-150 acres or so) depending on the habitat and availability food, water, and cover. Northern deer and yarding might be an exception as I did not see mention of that?

In the last study I saw, bucks were reluctant to move even during floods and almost 40 or so of them drowned or starved to death because they simply would not leave their core area. And the vast majority returned back to the area as soon as the flood water returned to normal levels.

Northern deer do shift...many have a winter range for sure. Its why winter scouting with snow is not really all that effective. That usually means some sort of softwood.

I would very much agree with you. As I chase these bucks, I am always trying to understand them. If everytime they encountered a human, they shifted, eventually there would be nowhere left to go. In the northeast, I chase deer a lot with trailcams. Mostly at hidden apple trees, next to bedding areas. My goal is not to pressure these bucks but to find them. And, many seasons, I am chasing 3.5yr old bucks at best, some seasons, older. But in order to just find them, you have to run a lot of trailcams. Bedding is everywhere. If you were trying to pin down individual beds without taking into consideration where they are feeding, the possibilities are endless.

[glow=red]When I run these cams, my tactic first is to find out if a mature buck is using this food source. If a buck shows up just after dark, I know I need to start working out from the apples to try and figure out where he is bedding. So much of the bedding is determined by whether that food source produces this year. Many times, these deer never have to even leave the cover to feed. Its what makes this style of hunting tough. Deer are bedded sometimes less than 70yds from the food source.[/glow]
I post more on this site about this stuff...more than anywhere else. Mainly because I know most of the guys here are pretty serious. The learning never ends.

Maine, I agree 100%. I know many here like to start with bedding, but in the northeast, Ohio valley area and down through the Appalachian mountains, pinning down exact bedding is a crap shoot at best. Food sources and in my situation water, gives you a solid starting point to pin down the bedding area.

[Lockdown]

Just curious, if a guy started a bait site and walked 2-3 times per week through the woods to replenish the bait site, would a resident buck, even he may not visit the bait site in daylight, become tolerant of the hunter's scent and perhaps be more vulnerable during the rut or late season because of the association of scent with the bait? Would he only tolerate that hunter's scent and not another hunter's scent?

To what extent is it possible to condition a buck to a hunter's scent?

I remember a podcast with Lee Lakosky in which he said the deer would tolerate their scent in the fields due to their feeding program but not tolerate it all in the woods.

I'm curious if it's possible to get a buck conditioned to tolerate your scent in some way of you didn't have a good access/exit trail to your stand?

[ Post made via iPhone ]

the technique Lee was using was implemented and then proved effective after several years. I don't think it's something that happens in one summer. The specific example he gave were deer at a feeder in his mother in laws yard. The first few years they ran off when they drove in. After a while, they realize they aren't in danger and stay.

Some might disagree with me, but I think when they are exposed as fawns and yearlings they are far more accepting to human activity. I also don't think they had 150's feeding in her yard... I don't remember the details on that.

The biggest difference is regardless if he's filling feeders in the field or driving into a driveway, those deer are away from their bedding and choose to be there for food. Once you start encroaching on bedding it's going to be game over IMHO

[ Post made via iPhone ]

[Southern Man]

Just curious, if a guy started a bait site and walked 2-3 times per week through the woods to replenish the bait site, would a resident buck, even he may not visit the bait site in daylight, become tolerant of the hunter's scent and perhaps be more vulnerable during the rut or late season because of the association of scent with the bait? Would he only tolerate that hunter's scent and not another hunter's scent?

To what extent is it possible to condition a buck to a hunter's scent?

I remember a podcast with Lee Lakosky in which he said the deer would tolerate their scent in the fields due to their feeding program but not tolerate it all in the woods.

I'm curious if it's possible to get a buck conditioned to tolerate your scent in some way of you didn't have a good access/exit trail to your stand?

[ Post made via iPhone ]

the technique Lee was using was implemented and then proved effective after several years. I don't think it's something that happens in one summer. The specific example he gave were deer at a feeder in his mother in laws yard. The first few years they ran off when they drove in. After a while, they realize they aren't in danger and stay.

Some might disagree with me, but I think when they are exposed as fawns and yearlings they are far more accepting to human activity. I also don't think they had 150's feeding in her yard... I don't remember the details on that.

The biggest difference is regardless if he's filling feeders in the field or driving into a driveway, those deer are away from their bedding and choose to be there for food. Once you start encroaching on bedding it's going to be game over IMHO

I used to feed deer starting in Mid January (when season closed) until spring green up. I made 1 trip per week, every week, in there. I had several trail cameras on the trails leading to the feed and a couple on the pile itself. The does, yearlings, and young bucks were there everyday. After I put out the feed, some would return as soon as an hour after I left. The older mature bucks would visit the feed every night and some during mid day or an hour or so before dark. Most of the time the older bucks would wait a day before returning after I fed. Even though the area was a natural travel corridor for the deer coming and going to the farm, seldom did I get a pic of a mature buck on the trail cmareas and not the feed cameras. They were coming for the food and they knew I was regularly in there. I did this for 5 - 6 years.

I too believe you can condition deer to your scent somewhat, it depends on the situation. Especially if they start as fawns. But, as the bucks get older, you can see they become more cautious. This farm had human activity around it pretty much all the time from farmers, homes, etc. Even with that much activity it still held good bucks and alot of deer.

[DaveT1963]

Suburban deer PROVE you can condition deer. Despite what is so often posted deer do NOT spook everytime they encounter human scent. They react to the out of the ordinary. So if you go busting in a deer bedding area where they never encountered human scent (which is highly unlikely these days) over and over they will react. But, deer will often return to a food source, mineral site where they have grown accustomed to human scent. Gene or Barry Wensel, in one of their books, talks about how deer would blow at a farmer in early morning when they could not smell him.... But would not spook when they could.... They knew the father and that he presented no danger. Bill Hale also talks about conditioning.

I think a lot of hunters would be surprised how often their "secret" spots are entrudered by coon hunters, fisherman, bird watchers, small game hunters, etc.... One of the things I have learned by being out there all year and through trail cameras is there are very few spots where someone doesn't go into at some point. If Bucks only bedded where they never encountered humans or their scent they would be stacked pretty high in very few places.

Most of the good buck bedding areas I have found have NOTHING to do with never encountering human scent. They have EVERYTHING to do with the buck, or doe group for that matter, picking a spot that gives them advantage to detect (sight or smell) of any danger that does happen to approach. I think deer live in the real world and they know they will encounter danger (and to them danger comes in more packages then just two legged predators) so they have adapted their behavior to survive among that danger. Every single bedding spot on this planet the deer still has to worry about SOMETHING trying to sneak up and eat them..... in their world there is no such thing as a bedding place where they never encounter danger.

[ Post made via Android ]

[DaveT1963]

Suburban deer PROVE you can condition deer. Despite what is so often posted deer do NOT spook everytime they encounter human scent. They react to the out of the ordinary. So if you go busting in a deer bedding area where they never encountered human scent over and over they will react. But, deer will often return to a food source, mineral site where they have grown accustomed to human scent. Gene or Barry Wensel, in one if their books, talks about how deer would blow at a farmer in early morning when they could not smell him.... But would not spook when they could.... They knew the father and that he presented no danger. Bill Hale also talks about conditioning.

I think a lot of hunters would be surprised how often their secret spots are entrudered by con hunters, fisherman, bird watchers, small game hunters, etc.... One of the things I have learned by being out there all year and through trail cameras is there are very few spots where someone doesn't go into at some point. If Bucks only needed where they never encountered humans or their scent they would be stacked pretty high in a few places.

[ Post made via Android ]