Whitetails and Wolves?
- traprock
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Whitetails and Wolves?
How do wolves effect whitetail behavior and how would you hunt those areas or would you find a new one? I've read that high wolf populations cause more daytime movement because they feel secure. But after the 2015 season in the U.P. if you ask most hunters they will tell the deer were nocturnal more than any other year. Also, you will see a wolf track in an area of hot sign and then you won't see a track for a week. But then there are guys that shot a big 12 pt 5 minutes after they watched a wolf walk by on the same run. Last year my dad abandoned his area after running into 5 wolves at 9 am and than at 2 pm his nephew shot a big 8 not even a half mile from the same area. Then this year I watched a probably a 200lb ten pt. run 180 degree circle around me at only 20yds with a wolf birddogging his trail about 50 yds behind him. Hence, never saw that deer are had a picture of him again.
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Re: Whitetails and Wolves?
This could be a pretty cool thread. Northern Minnesota has a pretty hefty wolf population so I have wondered the same things you are asking.
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- headgear
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Re: Whitetails and Wolves?
Complicated answer and I don't know anyone can answer it in full but I will do my best. So much depends on what the wolves are doing. They have a huge home range, 30+ square miles I think so sometimes they are in your area but most of the time they are not. Snow can really help let you know what is going on, otherwise it's just a guessing came based on tracks, any wolves you see and the number of deer you see.
Generally speaking you kind of have to treat wolves like other hunters, they can be just as likely to chase deer to you as away from you. If there are just 1-2 of them or if a pack is passing through it often doesn't affect the deer hunting all that much. Other times if they are on the hunt and working an area they do an amazing job and know exactly where the deer are. When this happens the deer usually vanish for 3-5 days before they start showing up again. The deer often just lay down and don't move and basically stay put in an extremely small area hoping they don't get discovered, and as you know when they don't move they are hard to kill. If they don't lay down they will high tail it out of the area until after the pressure is gone. They are generally going to hit the wet stuff, wolves don't move as well in water and swamps as deer so they seek out that safety. Or they just head to the next county, basically anywhere they can escape the wolves.
As far as hunting tactics go I generally just move to a new area or try and hunt wet bedding adjacent to the wolf pressure. They can cover 5-10 square miles with almost no trouble so even this can sometims backfire on you. The day the wolves move into an area can be good as they will push deer around all day, however if you find a lot of tracks in the morning they have probably been hunting all night and you might want to use a backup plan.
After becoming a bed hunter you learn that wolves are masters at this, they know right where all the hot spots are and almost jump from one bedding area to another as they are on the hunt.
Generally speaking you kind of have to treat wolves like other hunters, they can be just as likely to chase deer to you as away from you. If there are just 1-2 of them or if a pack is passing through it often doesn't affect the deer hunting all that much. Other times if they are on the hunt and working an area they do an amazing job and know exactly where the deer are. When this happens the deer usually vanish for 3-5 days before they start showing up again. The deer often just lay down and don't move and basically stay put in an extremely small area hoping they don't get discovered, and as you know when they don't move they are hard to kill. If they don't lay down they will high tail it out of the area until after the pressure is gone. They are generally going to hit the wet stuff, wolves don't move as well in water and swamps as deer so they seek out that safety. Or they just head to the next county, basically anywhere they can escape the wolves.
As far as hunting tactics go I generally just move to a new area or try and hunt wet bedding adjacent to the wolf pressure. They can cover 5-10 square miles with almost no trouble so even this can sometims backfire on you. The day the wolves move into an area can be good as they will push deer around all day, however if you find a lot of tracks in the morning they have probably been hunting all night and you might want to use a backup plan.
After becoming a bed hunter you learn that wolves are masters at this, they know right where all the hot spots are and almost jump from one bedding area to another as they are on the hunt.
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Re: Whitetails and Wolves?
headgear wrote:Complicated answer and I don't know anyone can answer it in full but I will do my best. So much depends on what the wolves are doing. They have a huge home range, 30+ square miles I think so sometimes they are in your area but most of the time they are not. Snow can really help let you know what is going on, otherwise it's just a guessing came based on tracks, any wolves you see and the number of deer you see.
[glow=red]Generally speaking you kind of have to treat wolves like other hunters[/glow], they can be just as likely to chase deer to you as away from you. If there are just 1-2 of them or if a pack is passing through it often doesn't affect the deer hunting all that much. Other times if they are on the hunt and working an area they do an amazing job and know exactly where the deer are. When this happens the deer usually vanish for 3-5 days before they start showing up again. The deer often just lay down and don't move and basically stay put in an extremely small area hoping they don't get discovered, and as you know when they don't move they are hard to kill. If they don't lay down they will high tail it out of the area until after the pressure is gone. They are generally going to hit the wet stuff, wolves don't move as well in water and swamps as deer so they seek out that safety. Or they just head to the next county, basically anywhere they can escape the wolves.
As far as hunting tactics go I generally just move to a new area or try and hunt wet bedding adjacent to the wolf pressure. They can cover 5-10 square miles with almost no trouble so even this can sometims backfire on you. The day the wolves move into an area can be good as they will push deer around all day, however if you find a lot of tracks in the morning they have probably been hunting all night and you might want to use a backup plan.
After becoming a bed hunter you learn that wolves are masters at this, they know right where all the hot spots are and almost jump from one bedding area to another as they are on the hunt.
I have never thought of it quite like that headgear great way of putting it. When a wolf pack is hunting in an area yea it makes sense deer would act like a lot like its opening day of gun season.
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Re: Whitetails and Wolves?
I've never seen wolves help hunting. Every time I've had a pack move in I've seen the deer activity come to a halt. The wolf scent lingers for days and the deer stay out of the area even after the pack moves on. I hate wolves. Absolutely hate them.
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Re: Whitetails and Wolves?
BassBoysLLP wrote:I've never seen wolves help hunting. Every time I've had a pack move in I've seen the deer activity come to a halt. The wolf scent lingers for days and the deer stay out of the area even after the pack moves on. I hate wolves. Absolutely hate them.
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I've had the same experience. I've seen areas of hunting land become ghost towns after wolf sign is identified. The areas I've crossed fresh wolf sign remained void of deer movement for days.
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- Steve Heiting
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Re: Whitetails and Wolves?
I've seen it happen both ways. I've seen deer move out of an area for a couple days following wolves moving through, and I have photos from a trail cam placed over a buck's gut pile of wolves within four hours of the buck being killed and then of deer shortly thereafter. There are no hard and fast rules in nature, and it appears to be the same with this subject.
The more the pro-wolf crowd tries to protect them the less I like them ... the pro-wolf crowd and wolves. Every time somebody says they think it's cool we have wolves in northern Wisconsin, I offer to send some so they can have them in their backyard, too. Then it's not so cool anymore.
The more the pro-wolf crowd tries to protect them the less I like them ... the pro-wolf crowd and wolves. Every time somebody says they think it's cool we have wolves in northern Wisconsin, I offer to send some so they can have them in their backyard, too. Then it's not so cool anymore.
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Re: Whitetails and Wolves?
I have hunted public land in Clark county for over 40 years. I hunted in a group of 4 people, we hunted opening weekend and then we would usually hunt wednesday thru saturday. This was our routine from 1975 to 2000.
In the late 70's (pre wolves) deer numbers were low yet we all saw a couple deer and averaged a buck and doe among the 4 of us. In the 80's deer were plentiful, each person would easily see at least 10 deer during opening weekend. The early and mid 90's were also filled with a lot of deer sightings and our success rates were very good.
Enter the wolves in the late 90's ( and very liberal doe tags ) deer sightings dropped dramatically and so did out success rate. Hunting there now you are fortunate to even see a deer.
I believe the excessive doe kill by hunters as well as the constant pressure from wolves has ruined hunting in this area. I also believe the deer herd cannot overcome the wolf pressure and the numbers will remain extremely low as long as the wolves go unchecked.
When you observe deer while hunting they appear very skiddish and I believe they have become more nocturnal.
In the late 70's (pre wolves) deer numbers were low yet we all saw a couple deer and averaged a buck and doe among the 4 of us. In the 80's deer were plentiful, each person would easily see at least 10 deer during opening weekend. The early and mid 90's were also filled with a lot of deer sightings and our success rates were very good.
Enter the wolves in the late 90's ( and very liberal doe tags ) deer sightings dropped dramatically and so did out success rate. Hunting there now you are fortunate to even see a deer.
I believe the excessive doe kill by hunters as well as the constant pressure from wolves has ruined hunting in this area. I also believe the deer herd cannot overcome the wolf pressure and the numbers will remain extremely low as long as the wolves go unchecked.
When you observe deer while hunting they appear very skiddish and I believe they have become more nocturnal.
- stash59
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Re: Whitetails and Wolves?
One other thing to consider. When a healthy doe is breed. She normally is carrying 6 to 8 embryos at first. As winter stress increases and the does nutritional needs aren't being matched. She starts to absorb embryos to make up for this. If the stressors continue. The doe may absorb all of the embryos.
So in areas with wolf pressure. Does may not be healthy enough to start with the 6 to 8 embryos. Then with the added stress of winter added to the wolf stress. More and more does will be barren by spring. Add in the high fawn mortality caused by wolves. You can see why population increases in wolf areas will be nil or negligible.
Only answer is to reduce wolf numbers.
Couple this with no forest management. No logging! There is little to no food available for the deer either. Thus the super low deer numbers in the northern Midwest/ Great Lakes.
So in areas with wolf pressure. Does may not be healthy enough to start with the 6 to 8 embryos. Then with the added stress of winter added to the wolf stress. More and more does will be barren by spring. Add in the high fawn mortality caused by wolves. You can see why population increases in wolf areas will be nil or negligible.
Only answer is to reduce wolf numbers.
Couple this with no forest management. No logging! There is little to no food available for the deer either. Thus the super low deer numbers in the northern Midwest/ Great Lakes.
- headgear
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Re: Whitetails and Wolves?
BassBoysLLP wrote:I've never seen wolves help hunting. Every time I've had a pack move in I've seen the deer activity come to a halt. The wolf scent lingers for days and the deer stay out of the area even after the pack moves on. I hate wolves. Absolutely hate them.
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It's very much a luck timing thing but after hunting 25 years with wolves it has happened far too often among our group to be considered rare. A lot depends on what is happening in the area at the time and how much pressure the wolves are applying and how long they have been around.
Of course plenty of hunts with fresh wolf sign and nothing shows up or just the wolves shows up but more than once I have stayed put after a wolf sighting hoping they would kick something my way.
- Hawthorne
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Re: Whitetails and Wolves?
A guy in my archery league told me he hunted the UP of Michigan this year for 7 days and did'nt see one deer. First time in 20 years of hunting up there nobody in his camp did'nt kill one. The wolves and the last two bad winters has it bad up there
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- Uncle Lou
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Re: Whitetails and Wolves?
Hawthorne wrote:A guy in my archery league told me he hunted the UP of Michigan this year for 7 days and did'nt see one deer. First time in 20 years of hunting up there nobody in his camp did'nt kill one. The wolves and the last two bad winters has it bad up there
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Latest Rocky Mtn Elk Foundation mag (Bugle) has a story of wolves in the lower peninsula in Michigan - confirmed. They may have ate themselves out of house and home in the UP. If they establish themselves in the elk herd around Atlanta, 60 years of a well managed effort and absolute Jewel of Michigan's outdooors will be in jeopardy.
I have a place in southern UP and rarely go up there to deer hunt, I do notice in summer and early fall the deer are more scattered then they used to be. And more rare. The people I talk to up there have nothing nice to say about wolves, and almost always complain about lower deer numbers.
- traprock
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Re: Whitetails and Wolves?
HG-I have to agree with deer heading to water and swamps. After we got our first noticeable amount of snowfall this rifle season all the deer tracks headed out of the oak ridges into a low land swamp. A quick recon scouting trip around the entire swamp, we discovered many wolf tracks patroling what we beasts call the transition line. We figured 3-5 different packs. I would assume when this happens we should probably move into the interior of the swamp. It seems like when these wolves hunt the send 1 or 2 into the swamp and try to push the deer out onto a logging road, onto a frozen lake/pond or a mature hardwood ridge with little under growth where the rest of the pack ambushes the prey. Maybe we have to let the wolf lead us to the bedding and wait for them to leave before we hunt there?
- traprock
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Re: Whitetails and Wolves?
hawthorne, In the u.p. this year we were missing our 1.5 and 2.5 year old bucks due to the late winters we had the last two years. When you get three hundred inches of snow each year and you get 150 of them inches in april and another 100 in may the deer starve because they need to start eating some greens and the wolves feast on the others because they are literally stuck in the swamp as the wolves use their big pads to run across the snow. Also when your hunting and older age class deer they don't march into bait piles, which is how a lot of people hunt in michigan. I find it funny when somebody tells me they have a picture of a wolf by there hunting blind, which contains a pile of corn/apples. Thats where beast hunting might actually shine in deer herd management because that bait pile for deer is also becoming a bait pile for wolves and coyotes.
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Re: Whitetails and Wolves?
Wolves are useless. They go into the deer yards and annihilate the deer. I run hounds in the U.P. Gotta be very careful where you turn loose. There are a few wolves here and there that cross the straits going south but they get eliminated rather quickly.
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