Locating mature/big bucks

[mheichelbech]

I'd be interested to see how you guys identify a particular good source as the preferred good source for a given time of year. Or the top 10 and when. I can say around here it's beans when green,clover at various times till winter, white oaks anytime they are dropping, corn, red oaks after white oaks dry up, beans again. But as to specific oaks I couldn't say beyond white/red/swamp. I mainly identify a preferred area by how much a small area is browsed down and then timing wise only by observation.

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[Edcyclopedia]

Need to up you odds to higher deer numbers.

As an/my example:
*Alabama hunt in 1994 = 4 deer in 4 days.
*Texas 2007 (40th b-day) = 1 eight pt. & 7 non-antlered, 4 turkey, 2 coyote in 4 days.
* 2010 & 2012 Ohio DIY late season (January ) Muzzle hunt = no scores trying to hang on for big one, however, I saw more deer in each 4 day season than all season in NH.
* Missouri 2012 - stalked and Arrowed 8 point and saw 37 deer total in 5 days, again as many as all season in NH.

[ Post made via Android ]

Ed you should put together your very own Venison Tour..........bet you could put ole' Spysar to shame.

[ Post made via iPhone ]

Scared - LOL
Yeah, I'll shoot all the Spysar leftovers.

[ Post made via Android ]

[whitetailassasin]

I'd be interested to see how you guys identify a particular good source as the preferred good source for a given time of year. Or the top 10 and when. I can say around here it's beans when green,clover at various times till winter, white oaks anytime they are dropping, corn, red oaks after white oaks dry up, beans again. But as to specific oaks I couldn't say beyond white/red/swamp. I mainly identify a preferred area by how much a small area is browsed down and then timing wise only by observation.

[ Post made via iPhone ]

Dogwood and areas I find outside redbrush and cattails and transition areas get a lot of attention(native grasses/clover) secluded acorns that have safe passages and aren't pressure are key over just any old acorn tree even if that acorn tree is raining. It will be a nighttime destination. Same for corn. Persimmons can be great. But ultimately food sources that are safe and void of pressure can produce. But a lot of times I find they can be long distances away from a mature bucks bedding, so backtrailing or trail cameras and also observation stands can lead to a mature bucks undoing in daylight hours. Everyone wants to think just outside the food source will be the bed. Sometimes that's true, but most of the time I find it's not. They will travel to get to food. I use maps a lot in determining what areas I need to scout then go in and boots to the ground the heck out of that area until I know it intimately. Once I've located a hot food source, I go back to maps and also look at the fresh sign I see and where it's coming from(example rublines) I also only target rubs chest high to waist. The food sources change during the season(example being beans from green to hard) so you have to know your area. As Dave mentioned knowing when your acorn trees(pin oaks can be dynamite) bare fruit is major to me. There are details in the woods that leave tell tale signs and if it's fresh or not. I also find that a lot of guys mistake nighttime sign on pressured food sources as fresh sign, yes it was fresh, but not killable conditions when he's there. Don't take this wrong anyone who has private lands or managed lands where they have the ability to plant there own food, manipulate how deer move, and can let deer grow old. I don't think it's a slam dunk for you. But you guys hunt a world I can never even imagine, I've been a public land guy my whole life, I don't own lands or lease, and if I had the resources I'd love to do the same. But that's not in my cards at this moment, but hunting other states is something I've put a priority on because the class of deer in my state exists, but I have a far better chance elsewhere.

[ Post made via iPhone ]

[IkemanTx]

Seriously guys, one of the most informative threads I've read in a while. I X3 the need for this in All Time Best Tactical threads list. I am going to really have to do some research into browse availability and timing of consumption. Dave has helped me identify certain things in our area to look out for, specifically maple leaves dropping, persimmons dropping, Honey Locusts in October, obviously white oaks, red oaks. Other research has shown me that Goldenrod, pokeweed, ragweed, and aster are also preferred browse at different times of the hunting season. I think I will be spending a large amount of time over the next couple of season and off-seasons studying native food sources and how to identify them.

[ Post made via iPhone ]

[EthanHogan1]

Great post whitetail and Dave. Good reads

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[KLEMZ]

Man if you have killed a bunch of 3 year olds off public under the conditions you describe you are doing extremely well. Making that jump to strictly 4+ is a huge jump. There just are not as many around on most public land as we would like to believe. There is a wake of 2-3 year olds for every 4+ I have killed off public.

I went down the trail cam road trying to focus on only fully mature, large racked bucks and quickly realized it was not for me. Running trail cams on heavily pressured public and not having them stolen (or burned here in the south), while getting them in the wheelhouse of a big buck without pushing him out of there is just a monumental task. I believe it is harder for me personally to do than to actually just move in and kill one.

I do like to focus on fully mature bucks and would be lying if I said I don't want big racks, so I did the following.

1) Hunt public land with the highest potential for mature bucks and big racks. Whether it is the part of the state it is in, the buck harvest restrictions, short seasons, restricted access, no dog hunting etc...

2) Hunt public land that has terrain conducive to patterning and killing big deer. Stay away from those huge flat timbered areas and areas with wide blended transitions. You are striving after the wind trying to nail down big buck movement patterns in that terrain. Drive a little further to a swamp, marsh or area with some defined topography.

If you want to kill fully mature bucks consistently on public, you have to put the time in somewhere, whether it is a ton of time on stand, time running cams, time scouting off season... Just pick where you want to invest the time. I hunt a lot, we have a liberal bag limit and have a long season. So I just hunt my way to a mature buck. I don't really 'run' cams or scout outside of season. I put the hours in on stand during season, hunting with a purpose and let the chips fall where they may. I am not big on passing 2-3 year old bucks because we eat a lot of venison and I am allowed 2 bucks/day all season...

[ Post made via iPhone ]

Very good post PK!! It is no coincidence that Dan's legendary video's "Marsh Bucks" and "Hill Country" both focus on specific terrain types that are EASILY readable on maps in terms of focusing buck bedding. Beyond these two terrains, it gets a little more difficult to pin point big buck bedding.

[Tractorsaw1]

Back here looking for great info, this site never ceases to amaze me!

[Hodag Hunter]

It's no secret my favorite way to locate and by far the quickest way in the northwoods is to track in the snow.

I've mentioned before with varied responses but placing a little bait in a good areas with access, found while tracking, will allow trail camera pictures to gauge rack sizes.

It is critical to place the bait in a good access area and close enough to bedding but not to close. One doesn't have to hunt over the bait to kill the buck, move closer to bedding when the time is right.

If no snow tracking available in the northwoods, my best bucks mostly release to water of some kind. Walk the wet edges.

[ Post made via Android ]

[DaveT1963]

I'd be interested to see how you guys identify a particular good source as the preferred good source for a given time of year. Or the top 10 and when. I can say around here it's beans when green,clover at various times till winter, white oaks anytime they are dropping, corn, red oaks after white oaks dry up, beans again. But as to specific oaks I couldn't say beyond white/red/swamp. I mainly identify a preferred area by how much a small area is browsed down and then timing wise only by observation.

[ Post made via iPhone ]

there are several "ways" In farm land talk to the farmers - they know. It always amazes me how deer can be on beans or corn one week, and then its like a switch is thrown and they all seem to prefer Alfalfa.
You can also talk to your state game biologist, especially if planning an out of state hunt. But keep in mind these guys/gals get tons of calls so plan ahead and give them time. Some times local universities have biology departments and have grad students doing thesis work - you would be surprised what you can learn there. Local forest offices. Game Wardens, Taxidermists, etc..... they all hear countless stories and many have a pretty good handle on what is going on locally.

Internet - there was a post on this site about what was in your bucks stomach - wonder how many people wrote down hunter, location, and date for areas they are interested in?

After the preliminary info gathering - I personally have really started paying attention to what I see them eating while glassing or hunting. If I see them eating something I want to know what it is, especially if its natural browse which is what the bucks will probably be eating in their core areas during daylight hours when/where I have the best chance at killing them. I keep notes and soon you will see patterns for specific foods at specific times.

[whitetailassasin]

I'd be interested to see how you guys identify a particular good source as the preferred good source for a given time of year. Or the top 10 and when. I can say around here it's beans when green,clover at various times till winter, white oaks anytime they are dropping, corn, red oaks after white oaks dry up, beans again. But as to specific oaks I couldn't say beyond white/red/swamp. I mainly identify a preferred area by how much a small area is browsed down and then timing wise only by observation.

[ Post made via iPhone ]

there are several "ways" In farm land talk to the farmers - they know. It always amazes me how deer can be on beans or corn one week, and then its like a switch is thrown and they all seem to prefer Alfalfa.
You can also talk to your state game biologist, especially if planning an out of state hunt. But keep in mind these guys/gals get tons of calls so plan ahead and give them time. Some times local universities have biology departments and have grad students doing thesis work - you would be surprised what you can learn there. Local forest offices. Game Wardens, Taxidermists, etc..... they all hear countless stories and many have a pretty good handle on what is going on locally.

Internet - there was a post on this site about what was in your bucks stomach - wonder how many people wrote down hunter, location, and date for areas they are interested in?

After the preliminary info gathering - I personally have really started paying attention to what I see them eating while glassing or hunting. If I see them eating something I want to know what it is, especially if its natural browse which is what the bucks will probably be eating in their core areas during daylight hours when/where I have the best chance at killing them. I keep notes and soon you will see patterns for specific foods at specific times.

Absolutely spot on in your last few sentences Dave.

[ Post made via iPhone ]

[justin84]

Great posts like this make for an unproductive day at work.

[Lockdown]

I'd be interested to see how you guys identify a particular good source as the preferred good source for a given time of year. Or the top 10 and when. I can say around here it's beans when green,clover at various times till winter, white oaks anytime they are dropping, corn, red oaks after white oaks dry up, beans again. But as to specific oaks I couldn't say beyond white/red/swamp. I mainly identify a preferred area by how much a small area is browsed down and then timing wise only by observation.

[ Post made via iPhone ]

Dogwood and areas I find outside redbrush and cattails and transition areas get a lot of attention(native grasses/clover) secluded acorns that have safe passages and aren't pressure are key over just any old acorn tree even if that acorn tree is raining. It will be a nighttime destination. Same for corn. Persimmons can be great. But ultimately food sources that are safe and void of pressure can produce. But a lot of times I find they can be long distances away from a mature bucks bedding, so backtrailing or trail cameras and also observation stands can lead to a mature bucks undoing in daylight hours. Everyone wants to think just outside the food source will be the bed. Sometimes that's true, but most of the time I find it's not. They will travel to get to food. I use maps a lot in determining what areas I need to scout then go in and boots to the ground the heck out of that area until I know it intimately. Once I've located a hot food source, I go back to maps and also look at the fresh sign I see and where it's coming from(example rublines) I also only target rubs chest high to waist. The food sources change during the season(example being beans from green to hard) so you have to know your area. As Dave mentioned knowing when your acorn trees(pin oaks can be dynamite) bare fruit is major to me. There are details in the woods that leave tell tale signs and if it's fresh or not. I also find that a lot of guys mistake nighttime sign on pressured food sources as fresh sign, yes it was fresh, but not killable conditions when he's there. Don't take this wrong anyone who has private lands or managed lands where they have the ability to plant there own food, manipulate how deer move, and can let deer grow old. I don't think it's a slam dunk for you. But you guys hunt a world I can never even imagine, I've been a public land guy my whole life, I don't own lands or lease, and if I had the resources I'd love to do the same. But that's not in my cards at this moment, but hunting other states is something I've put a priority on because the class of deer in my state exists, but I have a far better chance elsewhere.

[ Post made via iPhone ]

WA you mentioned rub lines. Most of the stuff I hunt is fairly small and flat, and doesn't see mature buck activity until rut. However in the last few seasons I've scouted some of the bigger swamps in my part of the state and I don't see a lot of rubbing activity in most places. The best sign is normally IN their bedroom/staging area. Most of my bedding have multiple exit trails with no rub lines on the way out. I think this is due to these deer hanging very close to their beds in the evening due to lots of human encounters. Places people "never go" are hard to come by around here. They hang tight.

This question is for anyone, but what do you consider a "cut and dried" or obvious rub line? How often do you find a rub line with a good distance between rubs? Say 100 yards? How long will an average rub line go? How many rubs do you find? I'd like to dig deeper on this topic.

I seem to find most of my rub lines heading back toward bedding. The evening rubs leaving the beds are normally in a general area (staging) and aren't an actual rub line. Is this what you guys find as well?

I do have a rub line leading away from bedding at my most remote spot, and had an encounter with a big buck there in mid oct.

[ Post made via iPhone ]

[DaveT1963]

I'd be interested to see how you guys identify a particular good source as the preferred good source for a given time of year. Or the top 10 and when. I can say around here it's beans when green,clover at various times till winter, white oaks anytime they are dropping, corn, red oaks after white oaks dry up, beans again. But as to specific oaks I couldn't say beyond white/red/swamp. I mainly identify a preferred area by how much a small area is browsed down and then timing wise only by observation.

[ Post made via iPhone ]

Dogwood and areas I find outside redbrush and cattails and transition areas get a lot of attention(native grasses/clover) secluded acorns that have safe passages and aren't pressure are key over just any old acorn tree even if that acorn tree is raining. It will be a nighttime destination. Same for corn. Persimmons can be great. But ultimately food sources that are safe and void of pressure can produce. But a lot of times I find they can be long distances away from a mature bucks bedding, so backtrailing or trail cameras and also observation stands can lead to a mature bucks undoing in daylight hours. Everyone wants to think just outside the food source will be the bed. Sometimes that's true, but most of the time I find it's not. They will travel to get to food. I use maps a lot in determining what areas I need to scout then go in and boots to the ground the heck out of that area until I know it intimately. Once I've located a hot food source, I go back to maps and also look at the fresh sign I see and where it's coming from(example rublines) I also only target rubs chest high to waist. The food sources change during the season(example being beans from green to hard) so you have to know your area. As Dave mentioned knowing when your acorn trees(pin oaks can be dynamite) bare fruit is major to me. There are details in the woods that leave tell tale signs and if it's fresh or not. I also find that a lot of guys mistake nighttime sign on pressured food sources as fresh sign, yes it was fresh, but not killable conditions when he's there. Don't take this wrong anyone who has private lands or managed lands where they have the ability to plant there own food, manipulate how deer move, and can let deer grow old. I don't think it's a slam dunk for you. But you guys hunt a world I can never even imagine, I've been a public land guy my whole life, I don't own lands or lease, and if I had the resources I'd love to do the same. But that's not in my cards at this moment, but hunting other states is something I've put a priority on because the class of deer in my state exists, but I have a far better chance elsewhere.

[ Post made via iPhone ]

WA you mentioned rub lines. Most of the stuff I hunt is fairly small and flat, and doesn't see mature buck activity until rut. However in the last few seasons I've scouted some of the bigger swamps in my part of the state and I don't see a lot of rubbing activity in most places. The best sign is normally IN their bedroom/staging area. Most of my bedding have multiple exit trails with no rub lines on the way out. I think this is due to these deer hanging very close to their beds in the evening due to lots of human encounters. Places people "never go" are hard to come by around here. They hang tight.

This question is for anyone, but what do you consider a "cut and dried" or obvious rub line? How often do you find a rub line with a good distance between rubs? Say 100 yards? How long will an average rub line go? How many rubs do you find? I'd like to dig deeper on this topic.

I seem to find most of my rub lines heading back toward bedding. The evening rubs leaving the beds are normally in a general area (staging) and aren't an actual rub line. Is this what you guys find as well?

I do have a rub line leading away from bedding at my most remote spot, and had an encounter with a big buck there in mid oct.

[ Post made via iPhone ]

This is what I have found it may not apply to what others see - a "traditional" rub line as most people think of them is when rubs show directional travel - usually 4+ rubs heading in a specific direction. I think rub lines start showing up after 15 Oct as bucks start to cruise more and they may want to start showing a little dominance. I note them but don't particularity hunt them until later in Oct. In my area the mature bucks start rubbing in Sept. But it is usually close to their bed, in a staging area and is overlooked by most because they are not on the traditional trees like you see in pictures. These are smaller multiple branched bushes or smaller saplings where they are trying to get velvet off and beginning to build up neck muscles. They are often mistaken for small buck rubs due to the size of the sapling/bush.

Rub lines are more or less sign post and places where the buck stopped to work out some aggression or to leave a sign of dominance. These early "brush" rubs are more subtle in my opinion and are not overly-aggressive. However, these are the ones I really pay attention to as it tells me I am near his bedroom more then traditional rub lines do. The trouble with finding these is that you are in his core area and he will know it. So these are better found one year and hunted later in the season or even the next year. I usually find these within 50-200 yards of the buck's preferred bedding areas.

In reality I use rubs more to help me find better sign (beds, staging, funnels, etc.) and hunt that - but occasionally, In later October when the bucks start searching, you will see a true rub line in deep cover that was just opened up..... when I do if it is fresh enough and in the right area, I may just throw up a stand 15 yards downwind of trail and hunt it for a couple days..

[justin84]

The trouble with finding these is that you are in his core area and he will know it. So these are better found one year and hunted later in the season or even the next year. I usually find these within 50-200 yards of the buck's preferred bedding areas.

Been there alot this year as I've entered new areas with my stand on my back. Setup and didn't see many bucks and this makes sense why I was in way to close to actual bedding. I feel even better about next early season knowing what I know now about these areas, how to approach, and where to sit.

[DaveT1963]

The trouble with finding these is that you are in his core area and he will know it. So these are better found one year and hunted later in the season or even the next year. I usually find these within 50-200 yards of the buck's preferred bedding areas.

Been there alot this year as I've entered new areas with my stand on my back. Setup and didn't see many bucks and this makes sense why I was in way to close to actual bedding. I feel even better about next early season knowing what I know now about these areas, how to approach, and where to sit.

as I said above, I seldom set up on rubs as they are hard to pattern by themselves and are hit and miss as hunting sites - I use them to show me where to head next.

Sounds like you got a great jump on next season for sure. I'd go back after season closes to where you found them and try to work back towards the bedding ground.... you might just find his bed/staging area.

IMHO Nothing is ever a waste unless it goes unused. Some of my best discovers were right after my biggest screw ups. I blew it..... then I wanted to know why I blew it.