Locating mature/big bucks

[DaveT1963]

WA - great post.

Seems like everyone is searching for the one best way and easiest way to find a kill a big buck now days...... 0ver 35 years of bowhunting has taught me there is NO ONE BEST WAY. Nothing will ever beat boots on the ground - but too much boots on the ground at the wrong time can hurt you. Have to know when to scout and when to back off and when to hunt. I personally think more people ruin good spots by too much boots on the ground at the wrong time than any other single factor.

Nothing will give you positive affirmation like visually seeing a buck - that is the money for glassing, shining and cameras. It gives you visual confirmation that a buck you would like to kill is there. Sure makes it easier to wait for the right day, and to keep at it when you KNOW he is there. But if you spook deer off using them you are defeating your self.

Rubs, scrapes, licking branches all give clues and all can be hunted with great success - but if you are set up on last years sign and that buck was snuffed by me (or another beast hunter) well you could have a long sit waiting for him to return. Same thing can be said for beds. each is a piece to a much bigger puzzle. Hunting over a fresh rub line in early oct can be deadly on big bucks and a total waste of time in Nov. Everyone wants to hunt scrapes in early nov (which can be deadly) but totally forget about them after the peak. Guess what guys, those bucks just got a little taste of something they waited all year for - I assure you they want more - scrapes can be deadly in Late Nov/Early Dec as there are far fewer willing ladies. Hunting doe beds or funnels between them during cruising is my personal favorite tech.... but it can be a waste of time in early Oct and during the peak. To me the single best time to kill a big buck is first day of most seasons when they are on summer patterns - but I assure you that if acorns are falling everywhere you are going to have a hard time doing that. Late season over bean fields or standing corn in the north can also be a great time to pattern a big buck. If you find an old isolated homestead that has fresh apples falling look out - same can be said about persimmon trees. How many can find these trees during winter scouting with no leaves and no fruit to clue them in????????

Tracks can definitely clue you in to a big deer's presence but that doesn't mean he has great head gear. Also, species come into play folks. Northern bucks get a lot bigger then their doe counterparts.... this is not true for all species of deer. Go chase some deer in southern Florida or the hill country in TX - few people that hunt there all the time can really decipher between buck and doe and certainly not between a 2 year old and a 4 year old. Beds can be great hunting spots, especially in farm land where there is limited bedding areas. They tend to re-use beds more. Where I hunt mostly no there is miles and miles of thick nasty crap - they bed wherever they feel like and seldom use the same bed on consecutive days. In farm country - crops can be great to hunt over - but they also can be complicated as deer can be eating beans here one evening and corn 3/4 mile away tomorrow - with so much groceries you would think it makes it easy - sometimes but not always. I have no real hills where I hunt, so should I throw out what others hunting hills have to say about thermals? Heck no made me want to know more and made me more aware of what was happening where I do hunt (like a large body of water causing thermals that I had never paid attention to and allowed me to now hunt a few spots where the deer think they have a wind advantage).

The key, at least for me anyways, is to take in everything, use what works and toss what doesn't. I consider Barry Wensel a friend, I have attended his workshop and talked with him numerous times over the years when I lived in Montana. No one I know has an ability like he does to predict exactly where the best place to kill a buck is.... He has never once ever mention trying to hunt over a single bed. What he taught me was to study terrain and how it influences movement. I can't do what Barry does in Iowa down here.... but I took his general thought processes and tweaked them to what works in my area. Same with John Eberhart, he has helped me immensely with scouting and when to do it. He also got me tuned in on using a saddle (my way is not the normal way either). I personally think using a saddle is stealthier, quieter and easier - but there is no way I am going to say it is better then a Lone Wolf stand - for me it is what works best. John doesn't hunt like Barry does - and I learned different things from both of them.... who is the better hunter???? Yes. I have learned a lot from Dan (and some other beast hunters) right here on this site. Especially his marsh hunting video and from sending him some maps. Here's the thing, I don't have a marsh anywhere near me and I have never have an opportunity to hunt them unless I travel pretty far. But I have taken some of what Dan uses and tweaked it to work in my mesquite thickets. (His using a step ladder in brush is crazy good and so simple I kicked my self in the rear for not thinking of that).

Here is the thing, all have good info and the one thing that separates them in my mind form everyone else is they learn to THINK for themselves and develop a system that works for them where they hunt. And before anyone slams Barry about living in Iowa and it being more probable to kill a bigger buck (which I do think is an accurate statement and is why Barry moved there) he also kills big bucks no matter where he hunts. He and Gene were killing monsters in Vermont, the big woods of Montana and Barry even took a monster in Georgia.

I see so much debating on line..... does camo work or not, call or not call, morning or evening, scent program or not, deer pee or human pee, funnel or bed, doe bedding or buck bedding, pre-rut or rut, etc.... the answer is YES!!!!!!!!!! They all work at the right time and under the right conditions - Personally I think the best approach is to be a sponge - on here and in the woods, try a lot of thing and then develop what works best for you as an individual where you hunt and how you are wired. As soon as someone comes out and says this is THE WAY to kill a big buck I move on. it is THEIR way but certainly not "The Way". There are no short cuts and YOUR greatest asset is to learn as much as you can and then use your best weapon - your reasoning ability (I'll agree some are not as well equipped as some of us - sorry, that's a crappy hand for sure..... that's a joke to lighten it up).

So many people want to learn "the way" Here's a little pop quiz - you don't have to answer out loud (or type).... do you know the top ten natural browse deer prefer where you hunt and what time of year they prefer them????? Can you tell me exactly what species of oak that is (lets go a little deeper then white or red oak)???? DO you know their acorn production schedule (is it every year, every other year, every 7 years)????????? Do you know the crop rotation scheme for your area???? Can you tell me what major changes the land has underwent in the last 10 years? Do you know what predators and their population levels for your area???? Do you know the peak conception date for your area? I honestly believe if people would focus on those aspects that would do more to make them a better hunter then trying to figure out the best "way" or technique.

I encourage you to take what I said, use what will work for you and toss out what won't..... I certainly don't have "the way" figured out, but I am pretty happy with where "My Way" is personally taking me...... and I make tweaks to that every single time I go out in the woods.


PS. I slammed my Ohio deer on 2nd day of hunt - I grunted him in or there would not have been a shot that day..... he was pursuing a doe so I pretty much did what most will tell you can not be done - I pulled him off a hot doe. Yes it was a hail marry - but I sure am glad I tried it and I am sure glad I didn't listen to all the "experts" that say it cannot be done.

[Lockdown]

Great thread! Loved that last post Dave.

Lots of great posts by multiple members.

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[Lockdown]

I'm thinking this one belongs in best all time tactical threads. Ton of info here...

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[EthanHogan1]

I agree with Dave. Great post. Individual situations, and individual hunters do it their way. It is the way You get out and observe the deer that makes successful. A good contrast I think is possibly Dan compared to don Higgins. Don will use tons of camera and food sources to target deer. He does use needing locations as well but he makes them a sanctuary in a way. Never goes to close and just hunts the field edges after the deer have developed their patterns. (Hunts mostly private) kills lots of big deer. On the contrast there is Dan or even Andrea. They hunt on top or near the beds, and even go as far as kicking the deer out of their beds to kill large mature deer. Just an example. While all 3 are kind of similar, they are also completely different

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[Bowhunter4life]

I'm thinking this one belongs in best all time tactical threads. Ton of info here...

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Agree 100 percent

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[JTurn]

Great thread. Dave is spot on. This thread is an example why I love the beast.

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[PK_]

Man if you have killed a bunch of 3 year olds off public under the conditions you describe you are doing extremely well. Making that jump to strictly 4+ is a huge jump. There just are not as many around on most public land as we would like to believe. There is a wake of 2-3 year olds for every 4+ I have killed off public.

I went down the trail cam road trying to focus on only fully mature, large racked bucks and quickly realized it was not for me. Running trail cams on heavily pressured public and not having them stolen (or burned here in the south), while getting them in the wheelhouse of a big buck without pushing him out of there is just a monumental task. I believe it is harder for me personally to do than to actually just move in and kill one.

I do like to focus on fully mature bucks and would be lying if I said I don't want big racks, so I did the following.

1) Hunt public land with the highest potential for mature bucks and big racks. Whether it is the part of the state it is in, the buck harvest restrictions, short seasons, restricted access, no dog hunting etc...

2) Hunt public land that has terrain conducive to patterning and killing big deer. Stay away from those huge flat timbered areas and areas with wide blended transitions. You are striving after the wind trying to nail down big buck movement patterns in that terrain. Drive a little further to a swamp, marsh or area with some defined topography.

If you want to kill fully mature bucks consistently on public, you have to put the time in somewhere, whether it is a ton of time on stand, time running cams, time scouting off season... Just pick where you want to invest the time. I hunt a lot, we have a liberal bag limit and have a long season. So I just hunt my way to a mature buck. I don't really 'run' cams or scout outside of season. I put the hours in on stand during season, hunting with a purpose and let the chips fall where they may. I am not big on passing 2-3 year old bucks because we eat a lot of venison and I am allowed 2 bucks/day all season...

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[whitetailassasin]

I know all too well how hard locating mature deer is. We have lots of deer, just age class isn't good. Locating beds and rubs in the area, and tracks(yes there are exceptions), rublines...is a good way of determining is the bed you've located is being used as a primary bed. Once I've located beds I scout the area further for more beds based of wind and also when pressure hit where I think he will go. I also look for sign from other hunters and where the pressure is more likely to come from. The cameras help by visually seeing, but glassing early seadon crop fields and setting observation stands to lay eyes on deer using the beds. Once I've located one mature buck, his days are numbered. I play the chess match. Knowing the food sources in relation to bedding, his travel routes, bed to wind, and when beds aren't non wind specific. I go to areas that have mature deer, if I can't find one, I move to an area that has one. I cover lots of ground. It's a lot of hard work, but once found your in the game. Knowing an area from years of observation also pays off. I by no means am a master. I'm just giving you my methods of how I pursue mature bucks. We could probably all talk for hours and give situations and stories and changes and variables, but the basic principles are the same to me. Bedding may change as per ag land, hill country, and big woods, but what it takes to locate them doesn't.

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[Bucky]

Yea, I have to say trail cams are the biggest aid in locating big antlered bucks I have found. I am fairly good at checking out tracks, but a whopper track might be a 125" deer or a 170" deer, you absolutely cannot tell. I have seen several 140-170" fully mature bucks with hooves the size of a big doe/young buck too. I have realized that small hoofed mature bucks are more common than I had thought. But once you link a buck and his unique track, then you can really learn a lot.

The only way to judge rack size is visual observation. Even a shed doesn't tell you a whole lot because where a buck is in March might be far different than October/November. If you don't use cams then the only way is glassing, shining, physically laying eyes on them somehow. You have to do a ton of that. Either way, as Stan said, there is no shortcut to spending a bunch of time and effort. Cams just let you redistribute that effort a bit.

By sheds I'm saying to determine true size and age.

Lots of people say a buck is 3 or 4+... but to me they look like 2yr olds. Sheds and pics allow me to know for sure a buck is mature. It is like collecting pieces to the puzzle and then putting it all together. DaveT explained it well above... I spend WAY more time on Intel gathering vs hunting

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[DaveT1963]

I know all too well how hard locating mature deer is. We have lots of deer, just age class isn't good. Locating beds and rubs in the area, and tracks(yes there are exceptions), rublines...is a good way of determining is the bed you've located is being used as a primary bed. Once I've located beds I scout the area further for more beds based of wind and also when pressure hit where I think he will go. I also look for sign from other hunters and where the pressure is more likely to come from. The cameras help by visually seeing, but glassing early seadon crop fields and setting observation stands to lay eyes on deer using the beds. Once I've located one mature buck, his days are numbered. I play the chess match. Knowing the food sources in relation to bedding, his travel routes, bed to wind, and when beds aren't non wind specific. I go to areas that have mature deer, if I can't find one, I move to an area that has one. I cover lots of ground. It's a lot of hard work, but once found your in the game. Knowing an area from years of observation also pays off. I by no means am a master. I'm just giving you my methods of how I pursue mature bucks. We could probably all talk for hours and give situations and stories and changes and variables, but the basic principles are the same to me. Bedding may change as per ag land, hill country, and big woods, but what it takes to locate them doesn't.

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Agree. Only thing I will add, after having hunted whitetails in 14 different states, the basics don't change much (food, water, shelter), however, the difficulty in finding them, locating sign, and patterning them varies quite a bit based upon many factors like terrain, buck to doe rations, age structure, availability of public land, human populations, game dept management policies (see what has happened in PA when they improvement their mgmt. practices), etc.) All these can greatly influence how easy/hard it is to get on good deer.

One quick example, if buck to doe ratios get way out of kilter (as is typical with states with no restrictions and long gun seasons) then hunting during the cruising phase will be more difficult. Why? Because a big buck has all he needs in his home turf and has no trouble finding a hot date when he is looking. If the buck to doe ratio is closer, then there is far more competition and bucks tend to cruise/go out looking outside their normal core areas.

[Bucky]

^ that is 100% fact

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[DaveT1963]

BTW - a quick, unofficial/unscientific way to check on your mature buck to doe ration is to start noticing how many deer show up with busted tines. If you never see bucks with broken tines then you probably are looking at poor buck/doe rations - or at least a low # of mature bucks

[olivertractor]

BTW - a quick, unofficial/unscientific way to check on your mature buck to doe ration is to start noticing how many deer show up with busted tines. If you never see bucks with broken tines then you probably are looking at poor buck/doe rations - or at least a low # of mature bucks

I certainly think that this is what I seen in my neck of the woods, terrible buck/doe ratios = lack of cruising
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[whitetailassasin]

I know all too well how hard locating mature deer is. We have lots of deer, just age class isn't good. Locating beds and rubs in the area, and tracks(yes there are exceptions), rublines...is a good way of determining is the bed you've located is being used as a primary bed. Once I've located beds I scout the area further for more beds based of wind and also when pressure hit where I think he will go. I also look for sign from other hunters and where the pressure is more likely to come from. The cameras help by visually seeing, but glassing early seadon crop fields and setting observation stands to lay eyes on deer using the beds. Once I've located one mature buck, his days are numbered. I play the chess match. Knowing the food sources in relation to bedding, his travel routes, bed to wind, and when beds aren't non wind specific. I go to areas that have mature deer, if I can't find one, I move to an area that has one. I cover lots of ground. It's a lot of hard work, but once found your in the game. Knowing an area from years of observation also pays off. I by no means am a master. I'm just giving you my methods of how I pursue mature bucks. We could probably all talk for hours and give situations and stories and changes and variables, but the basic principles are the same to me. Bedding may change as per ag land, hill country, and big woods, but what it takes to locate them doesn't.

[ Post made via iPhone ]

Agree. Only thing I will add, after having hunted whitetails in 14 different states, the basics don't change much (food, water, shelter), however, the difficulty in finding them, locating sign, and patterning them varies quite a bit based upon many factors like terrain, buck to doe rations, age structure, availability of public land, human populations, game dept management policies (see what has happened in PA when they improvement their mgmt. practices), etc.) All these can greatly influence how easy/hard it is to get on good deer.

One quick example, if buck to doe ratios get way out of kilter (as is typical with states with no restrictions and long gun seasons) then hunting during the cruising phase will be more difficult. Why? Because a big buck has all he needs in his home turf and has no trouble finding a hot date when he is looking. If the buck to doe ratio is closer, then there is far more competition and bucks tend to cruise/go out looking outside their normal core areas.

I agree with you Dave. Those things all influence mature bucks and where they move, and they whys? Figuring out those variables, knowing your surroundings(as you previously posted) and putting those keys together at the right time, are a must. I just think whether it's Barry, Jon, Dan, Andrae, You or Me, how to locate a big buck still has some basic principles that all of us have to have in order to find one. Most important to me is hunting an area that has one. You can't go another step further if your hunting an area void of a mature deer if your goal is killing a mature deer. Then the list goes on depending on who you talk to and how they like to attack them. But for me it's locating there travel patterns and PREFERRED food sources and bedding locations. To me you can NOT, put a plan in motion without these two steps. Your throwing darts in the dark without it. I think there are many tools when utilized correctly can pay off huge dividends. But Dans philosophy and what he believes is the closest to what I've observed than most any other hunters stragedy I've come across. Scout, scout, scout, then based off what you've learned apply that knowledge to how you set up your hunts. A huge number of guys disregard the wind because of the sign they see and think it won't affect there hunt. WRONG. They disregard stealth. Woodsmanship to me is an art being lost on my generation and those coming up. I love talking deer behavior and movement patterns and how they are bedding and when and why. I'm always learning. Ive wrote this in the past, but homework pays off when it's done and done correct.

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[DaveT1963]

I know all too well how hard locating mature deer is. We have lots of deer, just age class isn't good. Locating beds and rubs in the area, and tracks(yes there are exceptions), rublines...is a good way of determining is the bed you've located is being used as a primary bed. Once I've located beds I scout the area further for more beds based of wind and also when pressure hit where I think he will go. I also look for sign from other hunters and where the pressure is more likely to come from. The cameras help by visually seeing, but glassing early seadon crop fields and setting observation stands to lay eyes on deer using the beds. Once I've located one mature buck, his days are numbered. I play the chess match. Knowing the food sources in relation to bedding, his travel routes, bed to wind, and when beds aren't non wind specific. I go to areas that have mature deer, if I can't find one, I move to an area that has one. I cover lots of ground. It's a lot of hard work, but once found your in the game. Knowing an area from years of observation also pays off. I by no means am a master. I'm just giving you my methods of how I pursue mature bucks. We could probably all talk for hours and give situations and stories and changes and variables, but the basic principles are the same to me. Bedding may change as per ag land, hill country, and big woods, but what it takes to locate them doesn't.

[ Post made via iPhone ]

Agree. Only thing I will add, after having hunted whitetails in 14 different states, the basics don't change much (food, water, shelter), however, the difficulty in finding them, locating sign, and patterning them varies quite a bit based upon many factors like terrain, buck to doe rations, age structure, availability of public land, human populations, game dept management policies (see what has happened in PA when they improvement their mgmt. practices), etc.) All these can greatly influence how easy/hard it is to get on good deer.

One quick example, if buck to doe ratios get way out of kilter (as is typical with states with no restrictions and long gun seasons) then hunting during the cruising phase will be more difficult. Why? Because a big buck has all he needs in his home turf and has no trouble finding a hot date when he is looking. If the buck to doe ratio is closer, then there is far more competition and bucks tend to cruise/go out looking outside their normal core areas.

I agree with you Dave. Those things all influence mature bucks and where they move, and they whys? Figuring out those variables, knowing your surroundings(as you previously posted) and putting those keys together at the right time, are a must. I just think whether it's Barry, Jon, Dan, Andrae, You or Me, how to locate a big buck still has some basic principles that all of us have to have in order to find one. Most important to me is hunting an area that has one. You can't go another step further if your hunting an area void of a mature deer if your goal is killing a mature deer. Then the list goes on depending on who you talk to and how they like to attack them. But for me it's locating there travel patterns and PREFERRED food sources and bedding locations. To me you can NOT, put a plan in motion without these two steps. Your throwing darts in the dark without it. I think there are many tools when utilized correctly can pay off huge dividends. But Dans philosophy and what he believes is the closest to what I've observed than most any other hunters stragedy I've come across. Scout, scout, scout, then based off what you've learned apply that knowledge to how you set up your hunts. A huge number of guys disregard the wind because of the sign they see and think it won't affect there hunt. WRONG. They disregard stealth. Woodsmanship to me is an art being lost on my generation and those coming up. I love talking deer behavior and movement patterns and how they are bedding and when and why. I'm always learning. Ive wrote this in the past, but homework pays off when it's done and done correct.

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Spot on, The very best hunter I have ever known and hunted with (not going to post his name as most would know him and he does not like to be in a spot light - being a taxidermist did have its advantages) the thing that separated him from the pack was sheer determination and he never quit. I was always in pretty good shape while in the military, but this dude took me on an elk hunt that I will never forget. I swear he was non-stop for 7 straight days. About killed me. That dude killed some animals most on here would drool over and yet not a one was ever put in the book - said it was disrespectful and drew too much attention away from what was important. He never once would let me use one of the mounts I did for him as advertisement.... Guy had rock solid ethics and was ornery and opinionated like me :)

It takes a lot of work and there is a price to pay to year after year score on mature animals. Some don't want to or cannot make that sacrifice and that is cool. I always tell people if you are not having fun - do something different. I am at a point where I live alone, have a great job with lots of free time, kids are grown and gone and I can hunt and scout A LOT. There was a time when I was happy to connect on a doe, and also times where I felt like a failure if I didn't "tag" out. I got over that.

I am sure you and I would have some interesting stories (and perhaps a fish tale or two) to share around a campfire :)