The Dead Space Debate ( high chest shot )

[mauser06]

2006..first year bow hunting. Buck got bumped and came running in.

Didn't know any better...made noises till he stopped. Sent it. Looked like a great shot.



2" of my shaft missing and 200yds of pin drops. Scratching my head.


Did a lot of research and learned a lot about deer anatomy, not shooting at alert deer....and arrow penetration.


I found 2" of penetration was absolutely unacceptable. I found the Ashby Studies and changed arrows. Buddies dad killed him in the late season.

I don't know that better penetration would have helped...I didn't have much of a downward angle .. But, that was just unacceptable. Wish the Ranch Fairy was around back then! Would have helped me and saved me money lol.

[<DK>]

For sure. I lost a big one the same way as these pics people shared. A heartbreaker...

[<DK>]

I wonder if its bc a bigger or mature animal's vitals can sag an inch or so lower due to the weight and area inside? Just a random thought bc it seems to happen alot on big bucks

The penetration factor makes a ton of sense tho

[Lockdown]

I wonder if its bc a bigger or mature animal's vitals can sag an inch or so lower due to the weight and area inside? Just a random thought bc it seems to happen alot on big bucks

The penetration factor makes a ton of sense tho

This is speculation/theory on my part, but I’m starting to think that barely clipping the outside of the lungs is not as fatal as you’d think. Usually that would mean the shot is back and you might graze one lung then get diaphragm and maybe a piece of the liver. Maybe not.

My theory is due to the outside of the lungs being tiny capillaries, you don’t get the major blood loss and pressure drop that you do when you hit center mass. I took anatomy & phys in college and the vessels between your heart and main body of the lungs are monstrous. Hit those and it’s a blood bath and imminent death. Keep in mind a lung hit usually causes death due to lack of oxygen due to lack of blood PRESSURE. A lot of people think it suffocates them (which can also happen) or they “bleed out”. Suffocation is another form of lack of oxygen to the brain.

Well if we hit these small capillaries, is there going to be mass hemorrhaging? Is the lung going to fill with blood and suffocate him? If it does it’s going to take a while. And yeah there will be blood... the lungs are very vascular.

Some deer survive one lung hits. If they can do that I can sure believe they can survive both lungs being grazed.

I’ve been seeing quite a few pics lately showing obvious bubbles in the blood, but the deer is never recovered... in fact it just happened to me with my target buck.

Regarding your comment, if a bucks lungs are deflated and you shoot him just under the spine, I can see how he may survive that depending on (like you said) how low his lungs sit. The only question is where the aortic artery starts. I’ve seen two deer shot where that artery is severed and both were dead within 100 yards. One was my wife’s buck she hit in the flank. There was tons of blood...

[<DK>]

I wonder if its bc a bigger or mature animal's vitals can sag an inch or so lower due to the weight and area inside? Just a random thought bc it seems to happen alot on big bucks

The penetration factor makes a ton of sense tho

This is speculation/theory on my part, but I’m starting to think that barely clipping the outside of the lungs is not as fatal as you’d think. Usually that would mean the shot is back and you might graze one lung then get diaphragm and maybe a piece of the liver. Maybe not.

My theory is due to the outside of the lungs being tiny capillaries, you don’t get the major blood loss and pressure drop that you do when you hit center mass. I took anatomy & phys in college and the vessels between your heart and main body of the lungs are monstrous. Hit those and it’s a blood bath and imminent death. Keep in mind a lung hit usually causes death due to lack of oxygen due to lack of blood PRESSURE. A lot of people think it suffocates them (which can also happen) or they “bleed out”. Suffocation is another form of lack of oxygen to the brain.

Well if we hit these small capillaries, is there going to be mass hemorrhaging? Is the lung going to fill with blood and suffocate him? If it does it’s going to take a while. And yeah there will be blood... the lungs are very vascular.

Some deer survive one lung hits. If they can do that I can sure believe they can survive both lungs being grazed.

I’ve been seeing quite a few pics lately showing obvious bubbles in the blood, but the deer is never recovered... in fact it just happened to me with my target buck.

Regarding your comment, if a bucks lungs are deflated and you shoot him just under the spine, I can see how he may survive that depending on (like you said) how low his lungs sit. The only question is where the aortic artery starts. I’ve seen two deer shot where that artery is severed and both were dead within 100 yards. One was my wife’s buck she hit in the flank. There was tons of blood...

Good post and I agree with you. Especially about high or one lung. I just think its odd how often it happens on good bucks. They are just built different otherwise I wouldnt put so much time and effort into tuning arrows.

Obviously every deer and shot of different but could simply be a certain way hes standing or maybe the step he takes shifts things inside.

I agree tho, the top of the lungs probably just isnt enough vitals for all of them to die. God we all know they are tough too.

[<DK>]

I can say hitting that buck last year and getting ready to climb down that I had never been more confident in a great shot and dead big buck! I was completely baffled by it bc I expected the angle to take care of everything... So iv adjusted my sights for stand hunting and shoot low at ground level. I am very very satisfied this season

[mbarthelemy]

I lost one this past week in MN due to a high shot with my bow.
I had two doe and a buck running my way thru a pinch point. I stopped the buck at 21yrds broad side and let one fly. Good hit, nice pop, arrow passed thru and stuck in the ground about 8inches. When hit, the deer took a quick hop and made a tight circle back in the direction he came. I could see a bloody exit wound at this time but i had that dreaded feeling of a high hit especially at this point because the deer didn't act hurt at all. At this point he was 35yrds so i nocked another arrow and sent it, which deflected and spooked him back the direction he came. I waited about 1hr before getting down and had bright red blood puddles coming from both sides of the deer when he first stopped. blood stopped after about 1/4 mile. I guess I'm just a rookie, bar stool, bad hunter like dude said, or perhaps there is some arrogance with that assessment.