Rut stand change schedule???

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Stanley
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Re: Rut stand change schedule???

Unread postby Stanley » Wed Jul 29, 2015 10:37 am

dan wrote:
Happens a lot during the rut. I like doe bedding areas better than buck bedding areas during the rut. I have found those buck beds empty for the most part during the rut. It is not hard to understand why. The bucks go where the does are. That isn't to say buck bedding areas are not a good place to keep an eye on. Much more buck movement in the thick during the day, for sure.

You gotta hunt rut beds in the rut. Bucks bed in certain spots for certain reasons. I find mature bucks bedded to pick off other deer going thru funnels, and along trails going to or coming from doe bedding. Just like your not going to kill a buck out of a bed that is set up for acorns along the transition of an oak woods when there are no acorns there, you gotta shift to where they bed when they are seeking does.


I would say this would be in relationship to doe bedding? It is hard for me to find buck beds that are used very little. The doe bedding areas are much easier to find. I have seen bucks bed in one spot and never use it again during the rut. It may be a nice sandy bed in the shade on a hot day. It may be the buck was just tired and needed a rest. I'm not sure why I'm just sure they did because I saw them do it.

A buck with a doe will bed many times during the day. Those beds are random beds and never used again that I have ever seen. Some of these spots are in weird places. Not the normal buck bed that is established. One reason the beds are never used again is because the buck is dealing with other bucks fending them off. They try and find isolated areas out of normal deer traffic.

Some hunters say they have seen bucks use the same areas tending does year after year. I have never seen this myself. I think a big contributor of this is a good percentage of the bucks are killed by other hunters. So most of the bucks are not alive to go back to an area to tend a doe. In my mind it is about percentages, which spot gives me the best chance. I don't like my odds of hunting a buck bed during the rut. This holds even more true for me hunting a rut bed that I have not been able to find. I have just seen too many bucks on their feet during the rut.

For me Early season I do like those established buck beds. During the rut I like the doe bedding areas. After the rut back to buck bedding and food sources. Great discussion for sure.


You can fool some of the bucks, all of the time, and fool all of the bucks, some of the time, however you certainly can't fool all of the bucks, all of the time.
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Re: Rut stand change schedule???

Unread postby KLEMZ » Wed Jul 29, 2015 11:55 am

headgear wrote:Hey Klemz on more than one occasion I have had does drag a nice buck with them to their bedding in the morning well after shooting light. Doesn't work all the time but I've seen enough of it to swtich to doe bedding at a certain time of year.


Headgear, what date do you start thinking about hunting doe bedding? November 5th ish?
It may be more productive for me to simply stick with my plan of finding the active doe beds. I usually have my north Wisconsin rut hunt starting around Nov. 5th. give or take a couple days.
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Re: Rut stand change schedule???

Unread postby dan » Wed Jul 29, 2015 12:23 pm

I would say this would be in relationship to doe bedding? It is hard for me to find buck beds that are used very little. The doe bedding areas are much easier to find. I have seen bucks bed in one spot and never use it again during the rut. It may be a nice sandy bed in the shade on a hot day.
It may be the buck was just tired and needed a rest. I'm not sure why I'm just sure they did because I saw them do it.

A buck with a doe will bed many times during the day. Those beds are random beds and never used again that I have ever seen. Some of these spots are in weird places. Not the normal buck bed that is established. One reason the beds are never used again is because the buck is dealing with other bucks fending them off. They try and find isolated areas out of normal deer traffic.

Some hunters say they have seen bucks use the same areas tending does year after year. I have never seen this myself. I think a big contributor of this is a good percentage of the bucks are killed by other hunters. So most of the bucks are not alive to go back to an area to tend a doe. In my mind it is about percentages, which spot gives me the best chance. I don't like my odds of hunting a buck bed during the rut. This holds even more true for me hunting a rut bed that I have not been able to find. I have just seen too many bucks on their feet during the rut.

For me Early season I do like those established buck beds. During the rut I like the doe bedding areas. After the rut back to buck bedding and food sources. Great discussion for sure.


They ain't always easy to find, if you can't find any, I think your going about it the right way... A lot of them, like the buck bed I shot my big buck out of, are always great buck bedding spots, but because of a doe funnel, there is almost always the biggest buck in the area bedding in that spot the last week of October if its unmolested, and if you hunted the doe bedding its monetering, I doubt you would ever see the buck cause of the doe bedding being a few hundred yards and the buck not moving that far in daylight... I have seen some get that far in daylight, but not the biggest and the oldest. Might take a doe going into heat, and if the buck is bedded down wind and you set up down win d of the doe bedding area, your likely right upwind of the buck...

A lot of these spots were not found easily as you mentioned, many were either misdiagnosed or took a couple seasons or more to put the pieces together. As you have said in the past, its not something that you can do in one season and expect instant results...

Last year for example, I was hunting a swamp with Mario and noticed a lot of sign on a small island paralleling a doe bedding area. I told Mario to set up there and he blew an opportunity at a big mature buck. As I always do, as soon as we were done hunting for the year we went in and tracked the buck to his bed. It was obvious it was a rut bed to me. It was up wind of the doe bedding area, but 3 beds were placed specifically to watch does exit the doe bedding area. There were rubs all around the beds, even though most of the food based beds were not rubbed in that area... I could post a dozen or more experiences with mature or older buck rut beds, but none of them are "easy" to find... its not usually something you can pick up from looking at a map, it takes boots on the ground and experience with the big picture of whats going on in the area your hunting.
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Re: Rut stand change schedule???

Unread postby Stanley » Wed Jul 29, 2015 12:56 pm

dan wrote:They ain't always easy to find, if you can't find any, I think your going about it the right way... A lot of them, like the buck bed I shot my big buck out of, are always great buck bedding spots, but because of a doe funnel, there is almost always the biggest buck in the area bedding in that spot the last week of October if its unmolested, and if you hunted the doe bedding its monetering, I doubt you would ever see the buck cause of the doe bedding being a few hundred yards and the buck not moving that far in daylight... I have seen some get that far in daylight, but not the biggest and the oldest. Might take a doe going into heat, and if the buck is bedded down wind and you set up down win d of the doe bedding area, your likely right upwind of the buck...

A lot of these spots were not found easily as you mentioned, many were either misdiagnosed or took a couple seasons or more to put the pieces together. As you have said in the past, its not something that you can do in one season and expect instant results...

Last year for example, I was hunting a swamp with Mario and noticed a lot of sign on a small island paralleling a doe bedding area. I told Mario to set up there and he blew an opportunity at a big mature buck. As I always do, as soon as we were done hunting for the year we went in and tracked the buck to his bed. It was obvious it was a rut bed to me. It was up wind of the doe bedding area, but 3 beds were placed specifically to watch does exit the doe bedding area. There were rubs all around the beds, even though most of the food based beds were not rubbed in that area... I could post a dozen or more experiences with mature or older buck rut beds, but none of them are "easy" to find... its not usually something you can pick up from looking at a map, it takes boots on the ground and experience with the big picture of whats going on in the area your hunting.




Lots of interesting stuff. When I setup on a doe area my mindset is to give up the areas the buck won't be. In other words I try and make sure there is zero chance a buck will be bedded in back of me. I do this with open fields, ditches roads, rail road tracks, ravines, cliffs, buildings, ponds, rivers, lake etc. My low impact mentality just won't let me set up in a spot that I'm not in control of. If I can't lurk into a spot where my wind isn't blowing into waste land I just don't hunt the spot.
You can fool some of the bucks, all of the time, and fool all of the bucks, some of the time, however you certainly can't fool all of the bucks, all of the time.
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Re: Rut stand change schedule???

Unread postby Swampbuck » Wed Jul 29, 2015 12:57 pm

How far on average do you find the bucks rut bed in relation to the doe bedding

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Re: Rut stand change schedule???

Unread postby whitetailassasin » Wed Jul 29, 2015 1:02 pm

One of the things that puzzles me in all of this, is bucks disperse in the rut, some move in and some move out searching for does. I expect that nailing down a rut bed maybe tough because not all the bucks frequent the area and they may bed new spots close to doe beds. Maybe an estrous doe leads them back or maybe just by cruising they find doe groups. I wonder if any of you have any insight to this.

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Re: Rut stand change schedule???

Unread postby Arrowbender » Wed Jul 29, 2015 2:09 pm

whitetailassasin wrote:One of the things that puzzles me..........

[ Post made via iPhone ] Image


This ^^^

A great Big Puzzle!

I am not sure if all the pieces are even available but all we can do is try to put together what we have. Whether it is from learning from others or your own experience.

Just trying to define rut, or even worse, a rutting bed. There can be soooooo many variables, depending on wind, dominance hierarchy, buck to doe ratio............

When I read through this thread, I have supportive and opposing anecdotes for just about every scenario. It really stresses that there is is absolutely no "always" and "nevers" in the whitetail woods.

Keep in mind how many times that we see not ready to stand does being chased by young then older then oldest buck. Or seeing a dominate buck for the first time in an area during the chase phase.
Or a dominate buck locked down with a doe in an area that is not a normal buck bedding area. Or does going into a known buck area seeking attention.

Obviously these scenarios can reinforce certain tactics that we already use, and if those tactics are all that we use they will be the only ones reinforced.

So, yup. It is a puzzle!
And it is always interesting to try to find the pieces that fit.
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Re: Rut stand change schedule???

Unread postby headgear » Wed Jul 29, 2015 2:09 pm

KLEMZ wrote:
headgear wrote:Hey Klemz on more than one occasion I have had does drag a nice buck with them to their bedding in the morning well after shooting light. Doesn't work all the time but I've seen enough of it to swtich to doe bedding at a certain time of year.


Headgear, what date do you start thinking about hunting doe bedding? November 5th ish?
It may be more productive for me to simply stick with my plan of finding the active doe beds. I usually have my north Wisconsin rut hunt starting around Nov. 5th. give or take a couple days.


Pretty close, I usually switch about the 7th, Otherwise I only see the 1 and 2 year olds moving around in daylight. Also curious if you see the does group up where you are, about half the time a buck is with 2+ mature does, I've seen them with up to 4 and heard stories of bucks with 6 to 8 does in a group, no fawns. In the low deer density I think it leads to more effective breeding.
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Re: Rut stand change schedule???

Unread postby headgear » Wed Jul 29, 2015 2:19 pm

dan wrote: Last year for example, I was hunting a swamp with Mario and noticed a lot of sign on a small island paralleling a doe bedding area. I told Mario to set up there and he blew an opportunity at a big mature buck. As I always do, as soon as we were done hunting for the year we went in and tracked the buck to his bed. It was obvious it was a rut bed to me. It was up wind of the doe bedding area, but 3 beds were placed specifically to watch does exit the doe bedding area. There were rubs all around the beds, even though most of the food based beds were not rubbed in that area... I could post a dozen or more experiences with mature or older buck rut beds, but none of them are "easy" to find... its not usually something you can pick up from looking at a map, it takes boots on the ground and experience with the big picture of whats going on in the area your hunting.



I think this is why a lot of beast hunters pick up the pace in the kill zone threads late oct, yes the rut is picking up but these buck beds with a lot of sign from last years rut are easier to find scouting. Once you get the hang of these them you start to learn to work on the timing of when to hunt the different buck beds and why.

Some might say a lot of people knock down good bucks and late oct and that is true but when you factor in pressured or public land it's like night and day, you either see mature bucks or you hunt for years and don't see squat.
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Re: Rut stand change schedule???

Unread postby Stanley » Wed Jul 29, 2015 4:45 pm

Arrowbender wrote:
whitetailassasin wrote:One of the things that puzzles me..........

[ Post made via iPhone ] Image


This ^^^

A great Big Puzzle!

I am not sure if all the pieces are even available but all we can do is try to put together what we have. Whether it is from learning from others or your own experience.

Just trying to define rut, or even worse, a rutting bed. There can be soooooo many variables, depending on wind, dominance hierarchy, buck to doe ratio............

When I read through this thread, I have supportive and opposing anecdotes for just about every scenario. It really stresses that there is is absolutely no "always" and "nevers" in the whitetail woods.

Keep in mind how many times that we see not ready to stand does being chased by young then older then oldest buck. Or seeing a dominate buck for the first time in an area during the chase phase.
Or a dominate buck locked down with a doe in an area that is not a normal buck bedding area. Or does going into a known buck area seeking attention.

Obviously these scenarios can reinforce certain tactics that we already use, and if those tactics are all that we use they will be the only ones reinforced.

So, yup. It is a puzzle!
And it is always interesting to try to find the pieces that fit.


Great post Arrowbender. I think, if there is an always, related to deer hunting it may very well be during the rut bucks are on their feet, daylight hrs, more so than any other time of the year. :think: There are many ways to use this to your advantage. As you read through this thread I think that is very obvious. Just because I do something different than say Dan doesn't mean I'm right or he's wrong. I means many things work and there are many ways to accomplish the goal of hanging one on the wall. I have enjoyed this thread for sure.
You can fool some of the bucks, all of the time, and fool all of the bucks, some of the time, however you certainly can't fool all of the bucks, all of the time.
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Re: Rut stand change schedule???

Unread postby Stanley » Wed Jul 29, 2015 5:05 pm

whitetailassasin wrote:One of the things that puzzles me in all of this, is bucks disperse in the rut, some move in and some move out searching for does. I expect that nailing down a rut bed maybe tough because not all the bucks frequent the area and they may bed new spots close to doe beds. Maybe an estrous doe leads them back or maybe just by cruising they find doe groups. I wonder if any of you have any insight to this.

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I don't think there is any rhyme or reason where a buck goes or why. I have pictures of bucks that the neighbor has picture of 2 miles away. I see bucks that are killed on neighboring properties. I have pictures of bucks that disappear for a year or two and come back. I see a buck one time and never again. I see many bucks hit on the highway. This tells me that bucks do move around. I can't tell you why or how I only can tell you bucks do move around.

I watched a good heavy horned 10 point buck travel 5 miles one time, right at noon. I glassed and drove and glassed and drove. There was snow on the ground and he was cutting across open ground. It took him about 30 minutes to make 5 miles. He would stop and look around every so often. Why I have no idea.

To answer your question honestly I can't tell you why.
You can fool some of the bucks, all of the time, and fool all of the bucks, some of the time, however you certainly can't fool all of the bucks, all of the time.
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Re: Rut stand change schedule???

Unread postby Stanley » Wed Jul 29, 2015 5:09 pm

headgear wrote:
dan wrote: Last year for example, I was hunting a swamp with Mario and noticed a lot of sign on a small island paralleling a doe bedding area. I told Mario to set up there and he blew an opportunity at a big mature buck. As I always do, as soon as we were done hunting for the year we went in and tracked the buck to his bed. It was obvious it was a rut bed to me. It was up wind of the doe bedding area, but 3 beds were placed specifically to watch does exit the doe bedding area. There were rubs all around the beds, even though most of the food based beds were not rubbed in that area... I could post a dozen or more experiences with mature or older buck rut beds, but none of them are "easy" to find... its not usually something you can pick up from looking at a map, it takes boots on the ground and experience with the big picture of whats going on in the area your hunting.



I think this is why a lot of beast hunters pick up the pace in the kill zone threads late oct, yes the rut is picking up but these buck beds with a lot of sign from last years rut are easier to find scouting. Once you get the hang of these them you start to learn to work on the timing of when to hunt the different buck beds and why.

Some might say a lot of people knock down good bucks and late oct and that is true but when you factor in pressured or public land it's like night and day, you either see mature bucks or you hunt for years and don't see squat.


My explanation would be the bucks are on their feet and out of those beds more and earlier as October turns into November.
You can fool some of the bucks, all of the time, and fool all of the bucks, some of the time, however you certainly can't fool all of the bucks, all of the time.
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Re: Rut stand change schedule???

Unread postby dan » Wed Jul 29, 2015 9:38 pm

Swampbuck wrote:How far on average do you find the bucks rut bed in relation to the doe bedding

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50 to 500 yards roughly.
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Re: Rut stand change schedule???

Unread postby dan » Wed Jul 29, 2015 9:42 pm

whitetailassasin wrote:One of the things that puzzles me in all of this, is bucks disperse in the rut, some move in and some move out searching for does. I expect that nailing down a rut bed maybe tough because not all the bucks frequent the area and they may bed new spots close to doe beds. Maybe an estrous doe leads them back or maybe just by cruising they find doe groups. I wonder if any of you have any insight to this.

[ Post made via iPhone ] Image

Its about timing... All bed hunting is actually. You gotta be there at the right time. Hunt hot sign when its hot.
It takes a season or two to wrap your head around, but once you do those spots seem to pay off about the exact same dates year after year...
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Re: Rut stand change schedule???

Unread postby dan » Wed Jul 29, 2015 9:44 pm

Arrowbender wrote:
whitetailassasin wrote:One of the things that puzzles me..........

[ Post made via iPhone ] Image


This ^^^

A great Big Puzzle!

I am not sure if all the pieces are even available but all we can do is try to put together what we have. Whether it is from learning from others or your own experience.

Just trying to define rut, or even worse, a rutting bed. There can be soooooo many variables, depending on wind, dominance hierarchy, buck to doe ratio............

When I read through this thread, I have supportive and opposing anecdotes for just about every scenario. It really stresses that there is is absolutely no "always" and "nevers" in the whitetail woods.

Keep in mind how many times that we see not ready to stand does being chased by young then older then oldest buck. Or seeing a dominate buck for the first time in an area during the chase phase.
Or a dominate buck locked down with a doe in an area that is not a normal buck bedding area. Or does going into a known buck area seeking attention.

Obviously these scenarios can reinforce certain tactics that we already use, and if those tactics are all that we use they will be the only ones reinforced.

So, yup. It is a puzzle!
And it is always interesting to try to find the pieces that fit.

This is actually a pretty good post...


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