Rut stand change schedule???

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dan
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Re: Rut stand change schedule???

Unread postby dan » Wed Jul 29, 2015 9:49 pm

Great post Arrowbender. I think, if there is an always, related to deer hunting it may very well be during the rut bucks are on their feet, daylight hrs, more so than any other time of the year. There are many ways to use this to your advantage. As you read through this thread I think that is very obvious. Just because I do something different than say Dan doesn't mean I'm right or he's wrong. I means many things work and there are many ways to accomplish the goal of hanging one on the wall. I have enjoyed this thread for sure.

Good post, and I agree... There is also big differences in the terrains we hunt, and the pressure....


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Re: Rut stand change schedule???

Unread postby headgear » Thu Jul 30, 2015 1:44 am

Stanley wrote:
My explanation would be the bucks are on their feet and out of those beds more and earlier as October turns into November.


Like I said in my post, it depends, I've hunted public land my whole life, until I switched tactics to hunt bedding seeing mature bucks on their feat in daylight rarely happens. Bucks "cruising" for does can be somewhat of a myth in pressured areas. If you see it yourself great but you have to know it doesn't happen that way everywhere. Every good buck I have shot or seen in late Oct early November (before rifle season in MN) has been within 150 yards of bedding. Again this is just my experience and why I feel a lot of guys flock to this website, the tactics can be applied universally and help people get on bucks in a lot of different areas.
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Re: Rut stand change schedule???

Unread postby KLEMZ » Thu Jul 30, 2015 3:18 am

headgear wrote:Pretty close, I usually switch about the 7th, Otherwise I only see the 1 and 2 year olds moving around in daylight. Also curious if you see the does group up where you are, about half the time a buck is with 2+ mature does, I've seen them with up to 4 and heard stories of bucks with 6 to 8 does in a group, no fawns. In the low deer density I think it leads to more effective breeding


I can't say I have seen a buck keeping track of two does at the same time. However, once I have found a pocket active with does, it is common to see a buck with a doe, then also more does in the same area, that are not being tended.

Up to this moment I thought the pattern of does being in spread out pockets (in the big woods low population areas) was based purely on having the best cover/food options at that time. But it makes sense that it is an efficiency strategy for whitetails breeding when the population gets low. :think:
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Stanley
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Re: Rut stand change schedule???

Unread postby Stanley » Thu Jul 30, 2015 3:59 am

headgear wrote:
Stanley wrote:
My explanation would be the bucks are on their feet and out of those beds more and earlier as October turns into November.


Like I said in my post, it depends, I've hunted public land my whole life, until I switched tactics to hunt bedding seeing mature bucks on their feat in daylight rarely happens. Bucks "cruising" for does can be somewhat of a myth in pressured areas. If you see it yourself great but you have to know it doesn't happen that way everywhere. Every good buck I have shot or seen in late Oct early November (before rifle season in MN) has been within 150 yards of bedding. Again this is just my experience and why I feel a lot of guys flock to this website, the tactics can be applied universally and help people get on bucks in a lot of different areas.


I really don't know how to kill a buck unless it is on it's feet daylight hours. If hunters are killing bucks no matter where or what method the bucks are on their feet. Bed hunting gives the hunter a better chance of catching a buck on its feet. The closer you get to peak rut the better the chances of a buck being on its feet. The kill zone thread picks up in success late October because the bucks are on their feet more and being killed because of that.

I agree in high pressure areas the bucks do go nocturnal. Hunters struggle to kill those bucks. If a buck doesn't get out of its bed in the daylight you're not going to kill it. As far as bucks not cruising for does. If there are fawns being born the bucks are breeding the does. I don't think there is anything mythical about this. That cruising may be in the dark hours but those bucks are cruising, it's what they do to procreate. Great discussion.
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Re: Rut stand change schedule???

Unread postby dan » Thu Jul 30, 2015 4:04 am

Stan, I don't think anyone is implying that mature bucks don't seek does, or that they are not on there feet more in daylight during rut... Just saying in a lot of areas, and some certain bucks don't do it much during daylight....
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Re: Rut stand change schedule???

Unread postby Stanley » Thu Jul 30, 2015 4:09 am

dan wrote:Stan, I don't think anyone is implying that mature bucks don't seek does, or that they are not on there feet more in daylight during rut... Just saying in a lot of areas, and some certain bucks don't do it much during daylight....


I agree with that 100% There are some older bucks that don't participate in the breeding ritual at all.
You can fool some of the bucks, all of the time, and fool all of the bucks, some of the time, however you certainly can't fool all of the bucks, all of the time.
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Re: Rut stand change schedule???

Unread postby whitetailassasin » Thu Jul 30, 2015 5:27 am

As we target older more mature bucks, we are after the small percentage that aren't moving in daylight as often. For me finding rut beds that are actively being used year in and year out can be difficult. Because one year a certain area can be hot and then the next year cold and so on and so on. Also because bucks will leave in search of does and because other areas don't carry as many mature bucks as others, younger deer not as mature as the ones I maybe after take up those beds. Dan you are absolutely correct in saying timing is everything no matter the time frame, but speaking on the rut alone, I'm after the oldest bucks I have in my area. What are some of the tips or things you look for specifically when your targeting an area? Specifically marsh, swamp, flat ag land?

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Re: Rut stand change schedule???

Unread postby BHC » Thu Jul 30, 2015 6:12 am

Most studies show that a buck will only breed 1, maybe 2 does. This is because most does become receptivive and go out in about a 3 day window. I have only witnessed a mature buck actually tending a doe once. Where he followed her atop a ridge watched her bed. Made a rub and laid down with her. I have also jumped a buck
Bedded with a doe. Just realise this is a 3 day window ( peak breeding) leading up to this is when activity gets hot! And then even coming out of it. Very few bucks are killed during this phase on our property. It's the week and a half prior and after. And this is simply due to getting out of bed earlier. Most of our deer do not travel miles, and if they do the return in 24 hrs. Most of what I have read says mature deer do not leave their core areas for more than 48 hrs. This is because they do not know the air currents outside their areas. Also they do not have a "grass is greener mindset". Dee have starved to death in areas where they could've traveled a few miles to good food. Locating those core areas and knowing your phases( pattern shifts) is key.

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Re: Rut stand change schedule???

Unread postby headgear » Fri Jul 31, 2015 8:34 am

KLEMZ wrote:
I can't say I have seen a buck keeping track of two does at the same time. However, once I have found a pocket active with does, it is common to see a buck with a doe, then also more does in the same area, that are not being tended.

Up to this moment I thought the pattern of does being in spread out pockets (in the big woods low population areas) was based purely on having the best cover/food options at that time. But it makes sense that it is an efficiency strategy for whitetails breeding when the population gets low. :think:


I wouldn't call it keeping track of two does at the same time, more that the does have kicked their fawns away and are traveling in groups of two or more, I've seen it enough to know it's something that does happen but it might depend on your area. We are pretty close the Canadian border so location could play a roll. Now more often than not you see a doe there is no buck there :lol: but several times I have seen a group of 3 mature does without fawns traveling as a group right around Nov 10th, have to think it's not a coincidence.
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Re: Rut stand change schedule???

Unread postby Stanley » Fri Jul 31, 2015 9:19 am

headgear wrote:
KLEMZ wrote:
I can't say I have seen a buck keeping track of two does at the same time. However, once I have found a pocket active with does, it is common to see a buck with a doe, then also more does in the same area, that are not being tended.

Up to this moment I thought the pattern of does being in spread out pockets (in the big woods low population areas) was based purely on having the best cover/food options at that time. But it makes sense that it is an efficiency strategy for whitetails breeding when the population gets low. :think:


I wouldn't call it keeping track of two does at the same time, more that the does have kicked their fawns away and are traveling in groups of two or more, I've seen it enough to know it's something that does happen but it might depend on your area. We are pretty close the Canadian border so location could play a roll. Now more often than not you see a doe there is no buck there :lol: but several times I have seen a group of 3 mature does without fawns traveling as a group right around Nov 10th, have to think it's not a coincidence.


I have seen a buck with multiple does one time that I can remember. It was about 20 years ago. Peak rut and a good buck was with 4 receptive does. So it does happen around here, just very rare.
You can fool some of the bucks, all of the time, and fool all of the bucks, some of the time, however you certainly can't fool all of the bucks, all of the time.
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Re: Rut stand change schedule???

Unread postby dan » Fri Jul 31, 2015 2:07 pm

whitetailassasin wrote:As we target older more mature bucks, we are after the small percentage that aren't moving in daylight as often. For me finding rut beds that are actively being used year in and year out can be difficult. Because one year a certain area can be hot and then the next year cold and so on and so on. Also because bucks will leave in search of does and because other areas don't carry as many mature bucks as others, younger deer not as mature as the ones I maybe after take up those beds. Dan you are absolutely correct in saying timing is everything no matter the time frame, but speaking on the rut alone, I'm after the oldest bucks I have in my area. What are some of the tips or things you look for specifically when your targeting an area? Specifically marsh, swamp, flat ag land?

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Monitoring does, rubs around the bed(s) The best ones I have found were either found by observing a deer, or hunting a buck bedding area for a few years and figuring out that it really picks up in pre-rut.
One of the ones that has worked out awesome for me is actually a primary buck bedding area that I have shot many bucks out of, but come pre rut bucks come in from other areas... I shot the Rome legend there, and one year prior almost to the day I spooked him out of a satellite bed with a hot doe... That buck did not live on the public, but he would come in just for the pre rut and monitor a funnel coming out of doe bedding. All I had to do was sit back and wait for his rub line to open up 200 yards from his bed and then move in for the kill.
Other rut beds can be difficult, they always seem to be set up just like any other buck bed, but watching the does in one way or another rather than out chasing them like the younger bucks. One thing that makes them difficult to find or recognize when you do find one, is if its just used pre rut it may only get used for a week... So some of them don't show much wear... But, looking at where its located in conjunction with doe bedding or travel is the key.
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Re: Rut stand change schedule???

Unread postby headgear » Sat Aug 01, 2015 1:25 am

Stanley wrote:
I have seen a buck with multiple does one time that I can remember. It was about 20 years ago. Peak rut and a good buck was with 4 receptive does. So it does happen around here, just very rare.


What was the population like back then Stan? I know you have said back in the day it was rare to find a deer in Iowa. I really just think instincts kick in and it makes for more efficient breeding in low deer density areas to group up a bit. Once the population reaches a certain level there are bucks and does everywhere so it isn't necessary.

Just for numbers so people know what I am talking about my area pre fawn deer density is anything from 4-7 deer per square mile. It's been as high as 15 and usually averages out in the 8-10 range per square mile.
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Re: Rut stand change schedule???

Unread postby Stanley » Sat Aug 01, 2015 5:10 am

headgear wrote:
Stanley wrote:
I have seen a buck with multiple does one time that I can remember. It was about 20 years ago. Peak rut and a good buck was with 4 receptive does. So it does happen around here, just very rare.


What was the population like back then Stan? I know you have said back in the day it was rare to find a deer in Iowa. I really just think instincts kick in and it makes for more efficient breeding in low deer density areas to group up a bit. Once the population reaches a certain level there are bucks and does everywhere so it isn't necessary.

Just for numbers so people know what I am talking about my area pre fawn deer density is anything from 4-7 deer per square mile. It's been as high as 15 and usually averages out in the 8-10 range per square mile.


The deer populations weren't too bad 20 years ago. The spot I saw the buck and 4 does was a 1 1/3 acre timber very isolated. The buck was bedding in the small timber. The spot was only huntable 1 time 2 tops. I did not kill the buck.
You can fool some of the bucks, all of the time, and fool all of the bucks, some of the time, however you certainly can't fool all of the bucks, all of the time.
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Re: Rut stand change schedule???

Unread postby johndeere506 » Sat Aug 01, 2015 5:44 am

I had a long detailed response to this thread and then my computer crashed...

This is a great thread, and I think Ive seen more of what Stanley exlplains. Maybe its because our areas are similar, mixed AG type areas mostly for me. I have seen what Dan has mentioned, and I believe my 2013 buck was bedded downwind of the hot doe, just out of sight. Ive seen this a few times and it didnt make sense, since I knew he didnt come from (standard) buck bedding. The local bucks in the area I know best cruise some in early November, from their normal beds. Then in second week, Ive seen them use these temporary monitoring beds, or are locked down with a doe completely.

The only good things about not having a clue my first couple years was that I was out of the game, but yet close enough to see what unfolded. I learned a lot, and was simply observing since I didnt know I should have been somewhere else. The more I listen to you guys here, more things fall into place and make sense based on what Ive seen. Great topic!

Ive seen some amazing bucks the past sevral years here, and always appreciate the lessons from each. Even the ones with no shot opportunities.


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