Thermal Pull question

[Ryan]

The map is flipped upside down cause its the only angle i could get a good pic from bingmaps, the water around this little peninsula is 2-4 foot deep, The yellow arrows are a NW Wind, the blue dot is the stand position, As the water heats up throughout the day it will be equal temperature or a little lower temp than the temperature of the air still since it will most likely be 70-85 degrees outside at this time of the year, will it still cause a thermal pull if the air is still warmer than the water? and also if it does do you guys think that thermal will over power the nw wind and pull it into the water like i depicted in the yellow arrow by the stand? And just a sidenote question, do you guys think the lines in the water pointed out by the red arrows are from deer trails some aerials show them others dont so idk if its just water separating naturally just curious to what you guys think

[PK_]

The water temp isn't what changes it is the air temp that changes throughout the day which will cause the on/offshore 'thermals'. You will almost always have a body of water pulling thermals dawn/dusk unless you get a drop in daytime temps suddenly. The water temp should be somewhere between average daytime/nighttime air temps, so thermals should be predictable until there is a drastic change in temps, it takes longer for the water to adjust in temp...

Also the water pulls the air over it and when the air hits a certain temps it will rise. So if you get below the water line with the deer movement in front of you on the high ground you can be untouchable.

Those do not look like deer trails to me. Deer trails will 'connect the dots' of high ground.

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[Ryan]

Also the water pulls the air over it and when the air hits a certain temps it will rise. So if you get below the water line with the deer movement in front of you on the high ground you can be untouchable.
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Thanks for clearing that up PK, I definitely misunderstand how the air and water related to one another, when you say hunting below the water line does that just mean hunting a elevation closer to the water than where the deer are at?

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[dan]

If the water is warmer than the air hunting at the edge, or from a tree in the water will have your scent rising... I think PK might be hunting bigger bodys of water than me, cause in the mornings sometimes I get a push because the water is colder than the air... During the day actual wind often over rides water thermals, the calm time just before dark is usually when you start to notice them.

[9pt]

Thermals will follow the laws of heat transfer: Heat transfers from the warmer substance to the colder substance.

In the case of a body of water, the air directly over the body of water will either rise or fall based on whether the water is warmer or cooler than the air.

Water warmer than the air will transfer heat to the air which causes the air to expand and rise. This should pull cool air from the land overtop of the water. This should happen in the evening when the Sun is setting.

Water cooler than the air will draw heat from the air over top of the water. The air will fall and contract. Air falling will push the cooler air below over to the land and up the banks.

However, the above statements are based on my engineering education, not my hunting observations. I am just a beginner in the practice of using Thermals in my hunting strategy so I'd appreciate any confirmation or correction from the Thermal experts on the board.

9pt

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[dan]

Thermals will follow the laws of heat transfer: Heat transfers from the warmer substance to the colder substance.

In the case of a body of water, the air directly over the body of water will either rise or fall based on whether the water is warmer or cooler than the air.

Water warmer than the air will transfer heat to the air which causes the air to expand and rise. This should pull cool air from the land overtop of the water. This should happen in the evening when the Sun is setting.

Water cooler than the air will draw heat from the air over top of the water. The air will fall and contract. Air falling will push the cooler air below over to the land and up the banks.

However, the above statements are based on my engineering education, not my hunting observations. I am just a beginner in the practice of using Thermals in my hunting strategy so I'd appreciate any confirmation or correction from the Thermal experts on the board.

9pt

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Your pretty much right on...

[g.sampey]

So it would be better to hunt your target when the water would be warmer in the evening "Last 30 Mins of light" than the air? If the water was cooler it would push ur scent onto the surrounding land at last light correct?

[PK_]

If the water is warmer than the air hunting at the edge, or from a tree in the water will have your scent rising... I think PK might be hunting bigger bodys of water than me, cause in the mornings sometimes I get a push because the water is colder than the air... During the day actual wind often over rides water thermals, the calm time just before dark is usually when you start to notice them.

I think it is the intensity of the sun down here. During bow season the swamp water is usually warm to the touch even at dawn. Shaded swamps down here are different from swamps that get lots of sun, water stays much cooler. Most areas I hunt are more like marshes or wetlands, lots of sun hitting that water.

[PK_]

So it would be better to hunt your target when the water would be warmer in the evening "Last 30 Mins of light" than the air? If the water was cooler it would push ur scent onto the surrounding land at last light correct?

Depends if the buck is using the high ground or skirting just below the water's edge. But you are on the right train of thought.

[dan]

So it would be better to hunt your target when the water would be warmer in the evening "Last 30 Mins of light" than the air? If the water was cooler it would push ur scent onto the surrounding land at last light correct?

Well, that depends... Sometimes your target buck is bedding on a dry hump in the water, in that case you don't want your scent pulling that way... The key is to understand how thermals work, and fit it into your set up.

[BassBoysLLP]

If the water is warmer than the air hunting at the edge, or from a tree in the water will have your scent rising... I think PK might be hunting bigger bodys of water than me, cause in the mornings sometimes I get a push because the water is colder than the air... During the day actual wind often over rides water thermals, the calm time just before dark is usually when you start to notice them.

I think it is the intensity of the sun down here. During bow season the swamp water is usually warm to the touch even at dawn. Shaded swamps down here are different from swamps that get lots of sun, water stays much cooler. Most areas I hunt are more like marshes or wetlands, lots of sun hitting that water.

Never gave the south that much thought but it completely makes sense. You likely have reduced geothermal cooling too. Good stuff.

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[Mario]

Dan discusses thermals on this podcast which may help you

http://www.thehuntingbeast.com/viewtopic.php?f=295&t=30397

[Ryan]

Water warmer than the air will transfer heat to the air which causes the air to expand and rise. This should pull cool air from the land overtop of the water. This should happen in the evening when the Sun is setting.

Water cooler than the air will draw heat from the air over top of the water. The air will fall and contract. Air falling will push the cooler air below over to the land and up the banks.

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Awesome way to describe it, makes perfect sense now, thanks 9pt

[Ryan]

Dan discusses thermals on this podcast which may help you

http://www.thehuntingbeast.com/viewtopic.php?f=295&t=30397

Thanks for the post, I listen to that one alot and keep taking things away from it, awesome how moving that stand just a few yards in the other direction had such an impact on playing the wind in that area