On shore off shore breeze

[dirt nap giver]

Guys,
Thanks for the replies. Your post's really have me thinking and replaying hunts in my head. Why did some work, while others failed? This burning question has been eating at me for years. For the first time, I think I have some traction on this climb.

I really dont want to pack 6 sticks out with the rest of my gear. I really dont want to go through the scent routine. I really dont want to sit on the sidelines and wait for every element to be perfect. I would love to arrive at the place where scent routine is a thing of the past. But the fact is, it has worked to many times and the thermals/breezes wont allow me to.

KLEMZ experience with this and the insight he has given me has given me a new way of thinking.

Thank goodness I still have a ziplock baggie full of milkweed left over. Time to get to work and figure this out.

[phade]

I can relate well to this. I have had properties within 5 miles of Lake Ontario and even some stand locations it was possible to see the lake itself. It really is thermals on steroids as noted.

I killed a 6.5 yo on a stand 4.5 miles due south of the lake shore on Oct 1 in 2012. Let me tell you, if you've never experienced it, the switch described is very noticeable. I setup trying to play this out as smart as possible. My scent stream/cone/whatever you want to call it, was actually blowing in between me and the buck bed, and where the buck was likely to go in the evening. Thankfully the thermals kicked in and was before the buck got out of bed and the thermals started pulling the scent angled away and more toward the destination of the buck. It was about as close to being "almost wrong" for me and "almost right" for the buck as I have ever been in, but it worked out perfect.

It wasn't an easy hunt from a logistical/thought process, but it was successful.

[KLEMZ]

Dirt Nap,This link is interesting. It might help in understanding the wind around Lake Michigan. It is a graphic, hour by hour detail of the wind across the country. Zoom in on your area.

http://hint.fm/wind/

[lynchpin]

Dirt Nap, I live 5 miles from Lake Michigan on the Wisconsin side. Our lake thermal breezes are definately influenced by the predicted actual wind direction. On my side of the lake (in summertime) a straight west (actual) wind will result in a straight east lake breeze(for at least 6 miles from the lake). (warmer land mass pulling the breeze in). BUT, if the actual wind is SW, then the lake breeze will be SE. In other words the actual breeze (no matter how light), does influence the direction of the lake thermal. The opposite holds true also, a NW wind translates into a NE lake breeze. Maybe this could help you in your hunting setups.

Great response ... Well thought out. I had no idea the magnitude of BIG lake effect. Good information to know for sure.

[ Post made via iPhone ]

[KLEMZ]

I can relate well to this. I have had properties within 5 miles of Lake Ontario and even some stand locations it was possible to see the lake itself. It really is thermals on steroids as noted.

I killed a 6.5 yo on a stand 4.5 miles due south of the lake shore on Oct 1 in 2012. Let me tell you, if you've never experienced it, the switch described is very noticeable. I setup trying to play this out as smart as possible. My scent stream/cone/whatever you want to call it, was actually blowing in between me and the buck bed, and where the buck was likely to go in the evening. Thankfully the thermals kicked in and was before the buck got out of bed and the thermals started pulling the scent angled away and more toward the destination of the buck. It was about as close to being "almost wrong" for me and "almost right" for the buck as I have ever been in, but it worked out perfect.

It wasn't an easy hunt from a logistical/thought process, but it was successful.

AWESOME hunt phade!! That is exactly what we are talking about here!

Great response ... Well thought out. I had no idea the magnitude of BIG lake effect. Good information to know for sure.

Thanks lynchpin!



dirt nap, I have been putzing around on the wind map website since I posted the link to it. Man, I really think that resource, (along with milkweed observation), could help you find a way to hunt your bucks.

Things I have noticed...
-it is updated every hour, so if you look at it in the morning, the wind flow near the lake will be different than the afternoon wind flow. Pay attention to this! Find a pattern!
-near Lake Michigan, a predicted NORTH or SOUTH wind of 10 mph or less (for an area near you but away from the lake), will result in the most predictable lake thermal wind effect. (since the lake lies in a north, south orientation, and can effect the thermals more).
-if you hover the mouse over different areas, it gives you the wind speed of that exact spot. When you hover over the lake, the wind speed is higher than if you hover over the nearby land onshore...less friction over the water I guess. On a calmish day, you can hover the mouse over the center of the lake, and get a slower wind speed than if you hover near the shore...basically, I interpret this to mean the thermal wind builds up speed as it moves its way closer to the shore.
-if the predicted wind is more than 10 mph, things seem to get trickier in terms of predicting the daytime thermals.

[dirt nap giver]

KLEMZ, thanks for the link. I will check it out in the mornings and evenings to try and wrap my head around it.

I have been reflecting on hunts from the last 15 years and man oh man the wind direction info and how it relates to the thermal direction is really clicking. I never noticed that correlation before.

I have been slammed with work and family this last week and work has accelerated too. I will check back in when I can.
Thanks to everyone who keeps dropping rid bits of info on this topic.

[ Post made via iPhone ]

[phade]

Also to add, early on in the year when foiliage is still up, the thermal pull/pushes are more noticeable, and when hitting an obstruction, you need to account for it. For example, imagine being due S of the lake as in my example, and having a woodlot that is an upside down T, with the bottom of the T facing N toward the lake. When the pull or push happened, the inside corners of the woodlines were impacted, and on pull, the wind would swirl right in the corner and start moving N, but sucking in air from the E and W on the short sides of the T. During a push period later in season, the wind would hit the block of timber and split somewhat in addition to moving through the lot, flowing down the sides of the upside down T. If you were on the bottom of the upside down T (ie the short line), and checked both inside corners, you'd notice the thermals were moving in opposite directions as they flowed through, but also around the woods.

Very difficult to explain, but once you experience it, you gain and understanding of how impactful a big body of water can be.

[BassBoysLLP]

bump

[DaveT1963]

This is what I am experiencing this year as I am hunting large bodies of water. I was actually cursing the weatherman the other day - something about his inability to forecast 4 hours in advance what the winds would be doing. What happened was that almost 1 hour before dark the winds did a complete 180 where I was sitting. Now the winds were only about 3-4 mph all day when at the last hour they totally shifted. Totally ruined my evening hunt at primetime. Well as soon as I walked back to the truck guess what - the winds were back to all day N/NE. I have now noticed this three times and came to realize that there was a thermal effect I was totally ignorant about near water. I am still learning this as there seems to be a lot of factors as mentioned about - cloudy or overcast, humidity, heat during day, amount of temperature drop and the point or speed/force the prevailing wind needs to overcome this effect. I suppose I just have never paid any attention to this before while fishing but hunting this year it is definitely a factor I was unprepared for.

Thanks for the bump of this thread

[dirt nap giver]

Because I am spending more time on the water this year than I am hunting, I have been spending a lot of time watching the wind map on the site KLEMZ posted.
Those thoughts have led me to the conclusion that I need to approach these areas the same as ridge thermals. Getting close to the area until the thermal switches, then sneak in and set up low. Or setting up really high in the morning so my scent is blowing further out. Even that is risky because of the dropping thermals combined with the on shore off shore breezes. Haven't tried it yet, but in my mind, morning hunts might just be to risky because of both the variables combined.
I plan on testing my theory in a few weeks.

[ Post made via iPhone ]

[Crazinamatese]

Lake Breeze often takes on characteristics of an outflow boundary and usually can be seen on Doppler radar. Lake Superior has them too. There are radar apps out there that actually pick up on these little boundaries that come off of Lake Michigan..