opinion on statement made about hunting the wind

[Stanley]

A few years back I snuck into a spot in heavy rain thru 2 1/2 feet of water while wearing hip boots and a full rainsuit. Later after the heavy rain quit a doe appeared and completely came unglued when she crossed the path I walked in on.

Anybody that thinks the can control their scent is fooling themselves. I don't need scientific tests to tell me that. If your out there and a deer gets downwind it will smell you unless there are some thermals to carry your scent up and away. If a deer crosses your path it will eventually smell you. Doesn't matter if it's 100% scent or 10% scent a deer will know you are there or were recently and it will be on full alert.

[ Post made via iPhone ]

I am highly convinced that wet ground holds more scent than dry ground. Boots that are wet and dripping lay down more scent. I have trail camera pictures of bucks walking down the same path I did a few hrs before on dry ground. I did this on purpose to get some documentation. I have done a lot of testing over the years.

Tall wet grass forget it your done. Bare dry ground on a windy day you can get by the deer undetected. I've done it many times. Wet bare ground they usually bust you. Like I said I'm not just talking, I've done it. I walked by a Scrape within a foot of the scrape a few years ago. I decided to set up over the scrape. I had 6 or 7 bucks visit that scrape with their nose to the ground and not one buck went on alert. I passed a 15 yard shot at a 135 inch buck that's nose was inches from where I had walked an hr earlier.

Don't get me wrong if those bucks had of smelled me in the tree I guarantee it would be game over. I do know this, my ground scent is detected way less with rubber boots on. Dan and I disagree on this every time it comes up.

[stash59]

The area I hunted had wolves. Still does. In some ways I believe the deer had little contact with people. Since they had more problems with wolves. Probably weekly or less. Man and man smell didn't mean much to them.

I've never seen the Mythbusters bloodhound show. My question is with the new rubber boots. New ones have a powerful smell. Could the dog have keyed in on that?

Even though Dan mentions deer standing right by cars in public area parking. I personally still feel a small amount of smell out away from where the cars can go would alarm deer. I usually just hunted in my work boots years ago. I think the mix of human smells on them alarmed the deer. I saw alot ofdeer cross my path after the use of the rubber hip boots. Course all that was back in the early '80's. I was the only bowhunter on most of the land. Even though there was alot of poaching they stuck near the roads. By the late '80's there were many more bowhunters now in my areas.

[stash59]

A few years back I snuck into a spot in heavy rain thru 2 1/2 feet of water while wearing hip boots and a full rainsuit. Later after the heavy rain quit a doe appeared and completely came unglued when she crossed the path I walked in on.

Anybody that thinks the can control their scent is fooling themselves. I don't need scientific tests to tell me that. If your out there and a deer gets downwind it will smell you unless there are some thermals to carry your scent up and away. If a deer crosses your path it will eventually smell you. Doesn't matter if it's 100% scent or 10% scent a deer will know you are there or were recently and it will be on full alert.

[ Post made via iPhone ]

I am highly convinced that wet ground holds more scent than dry ground. Boots that are wet and dripping lay down more scent. I have trail camera pictures of bucks walking down the same path I did a few hrs before on dry ground. I did this on purpose to get some documentation. I have done a lot of testing over the years.

Tall wet grass forget it your done. Bare dry ground on a windy day you can get by the deer undetected. I've done it many times. Wet bare ground they usually bust you. Like I said I'm not just talking, I've done it. I walked by a Scrape within a foot of the scrape a few years ago. I decided to set up over the scrape. I had 6 or 7 bucks visit that scrape with their nose to the ground and not one buck went on alert. I passed a 15 yard shot at a 135 inch buck that's nose was inches from where I had walked an hr earlier.

Don't get wrong if those bucks had of smelled me in the tree I guarantee it would be game over. I do know this, my ground scent is detected way less with rubber boots on. Dan and I disagree on this every time it comes up.

Good point Stan. One of my weaknesses is tranferring knowledge on one subject to use for help in another.

My cougar hunting friends always dreamed of getting a dog from New Mexico or Arizona that could track successfully in those dry conditions. I should have been able to leap to your findings by knowing that. Although a steady rain soon washes scent away.

AS far as the rubber boots.I too noticed a difference. Rothaar and The Wensels swore by them.

[BHC]

I think something to note on the studies w dogs. The dogs are sent after the human. He knows he's present or should be and is in search mode for his scent. I trained my dog to find shed antlers. And in practice I have buried a small spike antler and sent her to find it in the yard in thunder showers... Found it in probly less than 2 min. I have also watched a mouse cross a doorway in my house, put her nose to it and say "get it" and she had the thing cornered in seconds. She's also tracked running deer up to a while with very little blood. Just saying it's very different ball game putting a TRAINED predatory animal after it's prey, in a game type scenario. At least to that animal. Than for a wild animal to randomly pick up on a scent stream in an uncontrolled environment. That said I am not taking anything away from a whitetails nose.. And I have seen my dog wind scent a deer at 60 yrds from upwind...

[ Post made via iPhone ]

[BassBoysLLP]

A few years back I snuck into a spot in heavy rain thru 2 1/2 feet of water while wearing hip boots and a full rainsuit. Later after the heavy rain quit a doe appeared and completely came unglued when she crossed the path I walked in on.

Anybody that thinks the can control their scent is fooling themselves. I don't need scientific tests to tell me that. If your out there and a deer gets downwind it will smell you unless there are some thermals to carry your scent up and away. If a deer crosses your path it will eventually smell you. Doesn't matter if it's 100% scent or 10% scent a deer will know you are there or were recently and it will be on full alert.

[ Post made via iPhone ]

I am highly convinced that wet ground holds more scent than dry ground. Boots that are wet and dripping lay down more scent. I have trail camera pictures of bucks walking down the same path I did a few hrs before on dry ground. I did this on purpose to get some documentation. I have done a lot of testing over the years.

Tall wet grass forget it your done. Bare dry ground on a windy day you can get by the deer undetected. I've done it many times. Wet bare ground they usually bust you. Like I said I'm not just talking, I've done it. I walked by a Scrape within a foot of the scrape a few years ago. I decided to set up over the scrape. I had 6 or 7 bucks visit that scrape with their nose to the ground and not one buck went on alert. I passed a 15 yard shot at a 135 inch buck that's nose was inches from where I had walked an hr earlier.

Don't get wrong if those bucks had of smelled me in the tree I guarantee it would be game over. I do know this, my ground scent is detected way less with rubber boots on. Dan and I disagree on this every time it comes up.

Great post/tests.

[ Post made via Android ]

[Stanley]

All great discussions. I have talked about this before. A human in the woods represents a huge mass of scent. Example a buck can smell a human up wind at 100 yards. A buck cannot smell a humans one flake of skin or one small hair follicle 100 yards up wind.

[BHC]

The question is can u minimize your scent footprint? Can a lesser amount of scent give prevent a deer from going on alert or to a lesser extent? Can u hunt a stand more times effectively if you minimize your scent foot print? If yes, then scent control works. Period. Not elimination... Minimization...
If I can smell you a deer can probly smell you 10 times as far and strong as if you are clean. If you have clothes you keep in contaminated. Only wear deer hunting( in the wood) that's a little extra.. I just can't get my head around the idea that that doesn't help at all..

[ Post made via iPhone ]

[Dewey]

A few years back I snuck into a spot in heavy rain thru 2 1/2 feet of water while wearing hip boots and a full rainsuit. Later after the heavy rain quit a doe appeared and completely came unglued when she crossed the path I walked in on.

Anybody that thinks the can control their scent is fooling themselves. I don't need scientific tests to tell me that. If your out there and a deer gets downwind it will smell you unless there are some thermals to carry your scent up and away. If a deer crosses your path it will eventually smell you. Doesn't matter if it's 100% scent or 10% scent a deer will know you are there or were recently and it will be on full alert.

[ Post made via iPhone ]

I am highly convinced that wet ground holds more scent than dry ground. Boots that are wet and dripping lay down more scent. I have trail camera pictures of bucks walking down the same path I did a few hrs before on dry ground. I did this on purpose to get some documentation. I have done a lot of testing over the years.

Tall wet grass forget it your done. Bare dry ground on a windy day you can get by the deer undetected. I've done it many times. Wet bare ground they usually bust you. Like I said I'm not just talking, I've done it. I walked by a Scrape within a foot of the scrape a few years ago. I decided to set up over the scrape. I had 6 or 7 bucks visit that scrape with their nose to the ground and not one buck went on alert. I passed a 15 yard shot at a 135 inch buck that's nose was inches from where I had walked an hr earlier.

Don't get me wrong if those bucks had of smelled me in the tree I guarantee it would be game over. I do know this, my ground scent is detected way less with rubber boots on. Dan and I disagree on this every time it comes up.

So much for the theory that rain washes away our scent. Actually I never believed that completely and agree damp ground will hold much more scent.

[ Post made via iPhone ]

[Stanley]

A few years back I snuck into a spot in heavy rain thru 2 1/2 feet of water while wearing hip boots and a full rainsuit. Later after the heavy rain quit a doe appeared and completely came unglued when she crossed the path I walked in on.

Anybody that thinks the can control their scent is fooling themselves. I don't need scientific tests to tell me that. If your out there and a deer gets downwind it will smell you unless there are some thermals to carry your scent up and away. If a deer crosses your path it will eventually smell you. Doesn't matter if it's 100% scent or 10% scent a deer will know you are there or were recently and it will be on full alert.

[ Post made via iPhone ]

I am highly convinced that wet ground holds more scent than dry ground. Boots that are wet and dripping lay down more scent. I have trail camera pictures of bucks walking down the same path I did a few hrs before on dry ground. I did this on purpose to get some documentation. I have done a lot of testing over the years.

Tall wet grass forget it your done. Bare dry ground on a windy day you can get by the deer undetected. I've done it many times. Wet bare ground they usually bust you. Like I said I'm not just talking, I've done it. I walked by a Scrape within a foot of the scrape a few years ago. I decided to set up over the scrape. I had 6 or 7 bucks visit that scrape with their nose to the ground and not one buck went on alert. I passed a 15 yard shot at a 135 inch buck that's nose was inches from where I had walked an hr earlier.

Don't get me wrong if those bucks had of smelled me in the tree I guarantee it would be game over. I do know this, my ground scent is detected way less with rubber boots on. Dan and I disagree on this every time it comes up.

So much for the theory that rain washes away our scent. Actually I never believed that completely and agree damp ground will hold much more scent.

[ Post made via iPhone ]

I think a light mist is about the worst. A good steady heavy rain will wash away some scent for sure. I think a good example of this is BassBoysLLP clip on washing away poison ivy. Just plain water does not wash the poison oil off. If you put flour on dry ground it will blow away if you put flour on wet ground it sticks like glue. I think scent does the same thing.

[gjs4]

Where we all fall down is remembering hunting deer is like playing poker- the pro should win most the games but occasionally a 10 yo takes the pot or the winner dates the dealer.... As stated above we value our own experience too much. One thing I heard Dan mention a few times in the podcasts and some interviews (and don't think anyone give him credit for)!is he tests the plausibility of theories to see if their fact, opinion or random occurrence. Deer are a wailed animal and variable and failure is impending when we make them more consistent than an animal can be.

[ Post made via iPad ]

[dan]

How you store your boots matters little... Deer don't fear gasoline, they don't fear perfumes, or foreign odor, they fear predators like humans... I think everyone has watched deer walk up to atv's and vehicles in the woods, and up to houses in yards, but those same deer won't walk up to a human and sometimes freak out when they cross a human scent trail.

Deer have a tendency to get a whiff of your scent and know exactly where you are. I have noticed a lot of the time they catch you on a swirl, or a sudden but slight change in wind direction and they don't look the way the wind has been blowing they look right up in the trees in your direction.

What I have seen in testing to is that attempts to lesson scent (scent control) seem to make it easier for deer to smell you... That might sound far fetched, but in about 7 different tests I viewed, every single one had a blood hound (which does not smell as well as a whitetail) find the test subject who used the most vigorous scent control 1st... EVERY TIME. It was pretty surprising to me, but when I sit back and try to analyze this info, I think that maybe the oily skin is holding the skin cells on better... One thing is for sure, 7 different elaborate tests, and all had the same results. The sad part is, everytime these results are made public the testers are attacked by the scent elimination manufactures and lawsuits threatened and the tests are removed from public view. Kinda like the way we get attacked here when we talk about scent control and have to lock threads.

I know a lot of you have fallen for the hype of scent control and believe it works, however, lets say Im wrong, and all tests were wrong. if it works, (which it don't) it makes so little difference that you can't prove it works, and makes no difference on ones success... If a guy spent the time and energy he puts into scent control into scouting, hunting, and observing whitetail behavior, he would be much farther ahead than by trying to make himself smell farther away.

There are a lot of people who say scent control can't hurt anything... I tend to disagree. If you believe your getting away with fooling a deers nose and set up sloppy instead of with patience and precision, your going to fail...

Everyone that tells you scent control works is either being paid to tell you that, or says they still hunt the wind or hunt 30 feet high, and watch there access trails... If it works, why? The more successful you become, the more your going to see, there is no way to beat a deers nose unless maybe you lock yourself in in an airtight tent with a bad for your health ozone machine, and I am not to sure that even works.

[BassBoysLLP]

A few years back I snuck into a spot in heavy rain thru 2 1/2 feet of water while wearing hip boots and a full rainsuit. Later after the heavy rain quit a doe appeared and completely came unglued when she crossed the path I walked in on.

Anybody that thinks the can control their scent is fooling themselves. I don't need scientific tests to tell me that. If your out there and a deer gets downwind it will smell you unless there are some thermals to carry your scent up and away. If a deer crosses your path it will eventually smell you. Doesn't matter if it's 100% scent or 10% scent a deer will know you are there or were recently and it will be on full alert.

[ Post made via iPhone ]

I am highly convinced that wet ground holds more scent than dry ground. Boots that are wet and dripping lay down more scent. I have trail camera pictures of bucks walking down the same path I did a few hrs before on dry ground. I did this on purpose to get some documentation. I have done a lot of testing over the years.

Tall wet grass forget it your done. Bare dry ground on a windy day you can get by the deer undetected. I've done it many times. Wet bare ground they usually bust you. Like I said I'm not just talking, I've done it. I walked by a Scrape within a foot of the scrape a few years ago. I decided to set up over the scrape. I had 6 or 7 bucks visit that scrape with their nose to the ground and not one buck went on alert. I passed a 15 yard shot at a 135 inch buck that's nose was inches from where I had walked an hr earlier.

Don't get me wrong if those bucks had of smelled me in the tree I guarantee it would be game over. I do know this, my ground scent is detected way less with rubber boots on. Dan and I disagree on this every time it comes up.

So much for the theory that rain washes away our scent. Actually I never believed that completely and agree damp ground will hold much more scent.

[ Post made via iPhone ]

I think a light mist is about the worst. A good steady heavy rain will wash away some scent for sure. I think a good example of this is BassBoysLLP clip on washing away poison ivy. Just plain water does not wash the poison oil off. If you put flour on dry ground it will blow away if you put flour on wet ground it sticks like glue. I think scent does the same thing.

That is a good analogy Stanley. Skin oil isn't very water soluble. Skin cells themselves aren't much better. That is we often need soap (surfactants) to get clean. Many of the surfaces in the woods (vegetation, soil, etc) are the same way.

Not all scent behaves this way though. Many of the most aromatic scent molecules are relatively water loving (polar) and will wash into the soil in a heavy rain. However, it takes a while to "wash away" as the soil has an affinity for those polar scent molecules. There is a gradual leaching of these scent molecules from the soil with increase precipitation, but the mechanism is chromatographic...another reason why it takes time for your scent to leave the area.

I agree with the Stan that the mist is the absolute worst case for scent. The woods even smells "fresh" to us under these conditions. Polar scent molecules occluded in the meso and micropores of soil are now brought to the surface due to their affinity for the moisture. Fresh nonpolar scent molecules may not be adsorbed on the surface of vegetation, soil, etc. Anyone who has run dogs for hunting knows the value of moisure in tracking.

[stash59]

How you store your boots matters little... Deer don't fear gasoline, they don't fear perfumes, or foreign odor, they fear predators like humans... I think everyone has watched deer walk up to atv's and vehicles in the woods, and up to houses in yards, but those same deer won't walk up to a human and sometimes freak out when they cross a human scent trail.

Deer have a tendency to get a whiff of your scent and know exactly where you are. I have noticed a lot of the time they catch you on a swirl, or a sudden but slight change in wind direction and they don't look the way the wind has been blowing they look right up in the trees in your direction.

What I have seen in testing to is that attempts to lesson scent (scent control) seem to make it easier for deer to smell you... That might sound far fetched, but in about 7 different tests I viewed, every single one had a blood hound (which does not smell as well as a whitetail) find the test subject who used the most vigorous scent control 1st... EVERY TIME. It was pretty surprising to me, but when I sit back and try to analyze this info, I think that maybe the oily skin is holding the skin cells on better... One thing is for sure, 7 different elaborate tests, and all had the same results. The sad part is, everytime these results are made public the testers are attacked by the scent elimination manufactures and lawsuits threatened and the tests are removed from public view. Kinda like the way we get attacked here when we talk about scent control and have to lock threads.

I know a lot of you have fallen for the hype of scent control and believe it works, however, lets say Im wrong, and all tests were wrong. if it works, (which it don't) it makes so little difference that you can't prove it works, and makes no difference on ones success... If a guy spent the time and energy he puts into scent control into scouting, hunting, and observing whitetail behavior, he would be much farther ahead than by trying to make himself smell farther away.

There are a lot of people who say scent control can't hurt anything... I tend to disagree. If you believe your getting away with fooling a deers nose and set up sloppy instead of with patience and precision, your going to fail...

Everyone that tells you scent control works is either being paid to tell you that, or says they still hunt the wind or hunt 30 feet high, and watch there access trails... If it works, why? The more successful you become, the more your going to see, there is no way to beat a deers nose unless maybe you lock yourself in in an airtight tent with a bad for your health ozone machine, and I am not to sure that even works.

That must be why I can't find these tests on the computer. Not that I don't believe that your telling the truth Dan.

What I'm trying to understand is what was happening when all those bucks followed my estrous lure scent string laid in my rubber boot steps. Why didn't they become alarmed. Enough of these bucks were mature animals to make me think I fooled them.

I know it will be speculation. Just need a clue. These were monumental experiences for me.

[dan]

That must be why I can't find these tests on the computer. Not that I don't believe that your telling the truth Dan.

What I'm trying to understand is what was happening when all those bucks followed my estrous lure scent string laid in my rubber boot steps. Why didn't they become alarmed. Enough of these bucks were mature animals to make me think I fooled them.

I know it will be speculation. Just need a clue. These were monumental experiences for me.

I had a huge 10 pointer follow a scent trail right to my tree once too... I doubt the tennis shoes I was wearing had anything to do with it... Not all deer react the same to scent, some freak out, some ignore it, etc... And they react differently based on where it is located, or the mood they are in. You probably didn't see the deer that reacted negatively.

[stash59]

That must be why I can't find these tests on the computer. Not that I don't believe that your telling the truth Dan.

What I'm trying to understand is what was happening when all those bucks followed my estrous lure scent string laid in my rubber boot steps. Why didn't they become alarmed. Enough of these bucks were mature animals to make me think I fooled them.

I know it will be speculation. Just need a clue. These were monumental experiences for me.

I had a huge 10 pointer follow a scent trail right to my tree once too... I doubt the tennis shoes I was wearing had anything to do with it... Not all deer react the same to scent, some freak out, some ignore it, etc... And they react differently based on where it is located, or the mood they are in. You probably didn't see the deer that reacted negatively.

Thanx Dan. Good point.Wish my brain worked like yours. Alot of my thinking on this came from what I read about long line canine trappers techniques. The best of them were real scent control freaks. All stuff from the '80's again.