Water / thermal question...

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dan
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Water / thermal question...

Unread postby dan » Fri Jul 03, 2015 4:37 am

Got this question in a PM and figured its a good one for all of us to discuss.

I was reading the "camera placement in hill country" thread and asked a question on cam placement over water. I'm in flat farm country but figured the cam question would apply to me anyways. Bucky gave some good insight and then touched on how he hunts water and it got me thinking...he said he hunts water 50 yards or so downwind bc of the j hook. Do you see this as well typically? Do you see it more in the morning or evening? It seems the deer would have more of an advantage in the morning all the way around water bc of the thermals pushing out? I saw a couple kills in your DVD where you killed right over water, could you explain how you executed? How do you go about hunting water early season compared to rut? Could you touch on your stand placement in relation to the water? Typically how high up the tree? What times are best to hunt during the rut? If sitting water in the evening do you get in there late to take advantage of the thermals sucking back towards the water? Or just get high enough to try and beat the thermals? Would this change early season compared to rut?


Bucky gave some good insight and then touched on how he hunts water and it got me thinking...he said he hunts water 50 yards or so downwind bc of the j hook. Do you see this as well typically? Do you see it more in the morning or evening?

If your talking hunting beds around water, I agree with Bucky for morning hunts. My evening hunts are based on the staging area / trail, and the wind, and the expected thermal change at last light... So to say it simpler, I set up along the exit trail between 50 to 150 yards from the bedding area depending on how close I can get.

It seems the deer would have more of an advantage in the morning all the way around water bc of the thermals pushing out?
I really have not noticed much of a morning thermal effect with swamp water, until later in the morning when the ground is heating faster. And in that case your scent seems to shoot straight up more than inland, but I don't hunt a lot of late mornings.

I saw a couple kills in your DVD where you killed right over water, could you explain how you executed?
If thje thermal always sucks the wrong way for a certain spot, I try and get up high and away from the shot area... Like on points where there is water all the way around I try to stay towards the side that will pull my scent away from the deer but still within range. The buck I shot over the water hole in the Hill country DVD I got real lucky with... Wind was in my face, but it got dead calm and thermal pull should have been pulling my scent to the pond where I shot that buck... In hindsight, I set up a little to close to the water, but luckily got away with it.

How do you go about hunting water early season compared to rut?

Early season the thermals are a bit stronger compared to rut because of the hot days and cool evenings.

Could you touch on your stand placement in relation to the water?

Most of the time fighting thermals is like fighting Mike Tyson while handcuffed. You can't wind. So, I try to find a way to use the thermal pull to my advantage, and just like in hill country where you have to set up with the wind and the anticipated thermal in mind. If your not seeing the picture let me know and I will post some of my actual set ups drawn out on an aerial...

Typically how high up the tree?
In a perfect world 20 feet or so, if its iffy wind higher. But factors like natural shooting lanes, the deer seeing me from his bed, cover, etc. will trump the "perfect world"

What times are best to hunt during the rut?
If your hunting mature bucks 1st light and last light... Cruising bucks can be anytime during the day, but I see more daytime cruising in some areas over others.


If sitting water in the evening do you get in there late to take advantage of the thermals sucking back towards the water? Or just get high enough to try and beat the thermals? Would this change early season compared to rut
I like to get in early and have both the daytime wind and the anticipated thermal in mind with my set up. Sometimes it takes patience waiting for the right wind. Thermals can change in rut. If its pretty cold out there is little effect, and it has more to do with just the wind direction... Water thermals effect me more on warm or hot days, regardless of rut.


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Re: Water / thermal question...

Unread postby Stanley » Fri Jul 03, 2015 4:46 am

Good stuff.
You can fool some of the bucks, all of the time, and fool all of the bucks, some of the time, however you certainly can't fool all of the bucks, all of the time.
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Re: Water / thermal question...

Unread postby jmaas07 » Fri Jul 03, 2015 5:12 am

Thanks Dan. Could you post some of your actual water hole set ups drawn out, I think that would be helpful.

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Re: Water / thermal question...

Unread postby Thermals » Fri Jul 03, 2015 5:29 am

Yes Dan please post some setups if get time. I think this would make a great sticky to have actual maps and setups that worked for everyone to see. I think finding beds is the easy part, the setup is where it's at. Or aleast for me it is.

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Re: Water / thermal question...

Unread postby Jdaukontas » Fri Jul 03, 2015 6:55 am

YES to setups!
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Re: Water / thermal question...

Unread postby dan » Fri Jul 03, 2015 8:55 am

Here is a water hole set up...
Yellow line is my access. I go up the farm trail where everyone walks. at least 3 or 4 times a week people walk that trail and the deer are used to that. On a straight West wind when I get to where my scent is blowing between the two bedding areas to the East (marked with PINK dots as beds) I abruptly turn and go in-line wind to back straight to the stand tree (red dot) right thru the water and straight up the tree as high as I can get, which is about 20-25 feet in that tree because of the just off wind.
Generally, just before dark at prime time it gets calm and the pond thermals kick in and my scent is sucked to the pond and then shoots straight up into the air, so nothing could smell my airborn scent unless it was standing in the middle of the pond, and even then, I don't think it drops down far enough for that to even happen... I actually filmed the thermal effect on this pond last fall for the next DVD.


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Re: Water / thermal question...

Unread postby dan » Fri Jul 03, 2015 9:10 am

Here is a swamp with a significant thermal pull... I have a south west access so I do a wide circle around the bedding area (yellow dots) Bucks bed here best on a North or N.W wind. I hunt this with a a N.W. ON A JUST OFF WIND, and hold to the thermal side for the calm time to pull me that way too...

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Re: Water / thermal question...

Unread postby PK_ » Fri Jul 03, 2015 9:22 am

Very good, loaded questions and very good, loaded answers.
No Shortcuts. No Excuses. No Regrets.
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Re: Water / thermal question...

Unread postby hunter10 » Fri Jul 03, 2015 9:24 am

Good illistration, helps put the info into focus for myself
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Re: Water / thermal question...

Unread postby seazofcheeze » Fri Jul 03, 2015 10:52 am

Good stuff, the illustrations really help.

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Re: Water / thermal question...

Unread postby jmaas07 » Fri Jul 03, 2015 11:59 am

Dan, approximately how far are those beds from the water?

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Re: Water / thermal question...

Unread postby KLEMZ » Fri Jul 03, 2015 12:23 pm

OUTSTANDING examples of set ups with "water thermals"! The access strategies and the thermal strategies are definatley "thinking outside the box". Walking straight thru the pond in order to keep your scent from hitting one of the bedding areas?......absolute genius!!

These examples, coupled with podcast #1, have raised my level of understanding immensely.
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Re: Water / thermal question...

Unread postby Hawthorne » Fri Jul 03, 2015 1:13 pm

Thanks Dan. Great info!

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Re: Water / thermal question...

Unread postby Ryan » Fri Jul 03, 2015 1:41 pm

dan wrote:Here is a swamp with a significant thermal pull... I have a south west access so I do a wide circle around the bedding area


Awesome information thanks, when you do a wide circle around the bedding area to access your stand site, how far away do you need to be so that your sent doesn't reach the beds when you walk that way?
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Re: Water / thermal question...

Unread postby dan » Fri Jul 03, 2015 10:21 pm

jmaas07 wrote:Dan, approximately how far are those beds from the water?

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iN THE FARM LAND EXAMPLE OVER THE WATER HOLE THERE EACH ABOUT 100 YARDS. In the swamp example there from 50 yards to past 100 with mopst being about 70 or 80 yards.


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