Buck Sign - The 5 year old vs the 3 yr

[Swampbuck]

What are some of the things from a sign perspective that you look for that would distinguish a 5 year old buck from a 3 year old. Big rubs are the obvious one for me but can you tell the size or age difference once they get to this age group? Less sign in core? High scarring with minimal rubs or is this personality?

The last few years i seem to be in a pattern of getting on 3 yr olds which makes sense but in trying to turn the corner to fully mature 5 yr olds, im finding difficulty there. From an age perspective im happy with 3 yrs but its the difference between 110" and 130" rack !!

Its big flatland swamp so terrain features are tough to use. I look for the bigger sign and in the past id have thought mature based on this, but the results of what i've killed and gotten on cam shows me i'm chasing 3 yr olds. So what are your tricks to distinguish between the sign of a 3 yr old and the 5 yr old?

[MOBIGBUCKS]

Are you comparing the rub heights? There should be a distinct difference between the 3 and 5 year old rubs. However, sometimes you get the rubs that are hit by several different age classes of bucks. Only other thing you can look at in conjunction with the rubs is large tracks.

[Swampbuck]

I do compare heights. Hadn't noticed a significant difference. Not saying there isn't one but I haven't been able to quantify it like I can between deer younger than 3 yrs... and it's a very low deer density so it's rare to see multiple bucks hit the same rub

One thing that could impact this, 3 yr Olds are generally about 180-190 lbs, 100-110". 5 yrs about 200lbs, 120-130"... so there's not a massive size differential. Not sure if that has anything to do with it or not

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[Tennhunter3]

It's difficult to tell by the rubs since a lot of big bucks rub little trees. The signpost rubs he makes in areas are hit or checked by every buck that goes through if only checked from downwind. So several bucks hit those big trees the height does help you know a 5 year old is in the area but their lines look very similar to a 3 year olds. Tracks of a mature buck are probably your best bet.

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[dan]

I am sure its different in the deep south, but here, a 3 year olds rub height is generally about waist high on me (Im 6'1" tall) and a 5 year old is stomach to lower chest high on me... Most 3 year olds I can drop 3 fingers in a walking track (wide not long) and when they get truly mature you can drop 4 fingers...
There are always exceptions though. But majority wise, pretty good rule of thumb in the north. You just gotta figure out how your scale works with the smaller bodied southern deer.

[msailor]

Are there differences in rub heights surrounding the beds, or are we talking about rubs found on rub lines?

[dan]

Are there differences in rub heights surrounding the beds, or are we talking about rubs found on rub lines?

Rub heights anywhere... Older bucks center of rub is higher.

[backstraphunter]

base ball size tree in ohio last fall

[JoeRE]

In my experience the differences in sign between 3 and 5 year olds is just about indistinguishable. There is too much variation in body and hoof size between individual deer. I could tell the difference pretty confidently with a 2 year old but not older.

One thing though - your average 3 year old will tear up the woods a lot more than your average 5 year old....so when I see a huge quantity of nice rubs I my first guess would be its a 3 year old or maybe several 3 year olds. 5 year olds are much more solitary and cautious and the sign they leave reflects that.

[dan]

I still see a very noticable height differance between known 3 year olds and older bucks... 4 and older is where it gets indistigishable for me.

[backstraphunter]

yea about those 3 year olds on private land or remote state they tend to become 4 and 5 year olds if you don,t shoot em in this day and age thats hard not too do with most hunters haveing a life job and family and best 7 to 10 days to hunt a year.sounds too me alot of you guys live in good deer country and don,t travel too far too hunt. i drive 375 miles one way from where i live in southern mi too where i hunt in michigans U.P

[GRUD]

I rely on size of tracks and droppings much more than rub size or height. In my observation I have found old large bucks rub small trees. I also rarely find much difference in rub heights. That doesnt mean that rub height is not a good indicator in other areas, I just have not seen it as a factor in the areas I hunt and scout.

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[msailor]

I do believe height of a rub tells you something but not everything. That being said, when evaluating rubs I have always put more emphasis on big rubs (on 4"+ diameter trees) or the intensity of the rubbing. What really turns my crank is when I see (4"+ diameter) tree shredded like paper; to me this only means on thing, big nasty bases, which takes age or a genetic freak, either way it's an animal I am willing to shoot.

I believe the height of the rub has a something to do with the characteristics of the tree as well, I have seen some rubs on cedars just above ground level that were size of my thigh because the branches above were too big to destroy and the buck just had an affinity for cedars. I have also seen bucks rub a fence post in half despite it only being 3 ft of the ground.

Isn't a mature whitetail supposedly full grown at 3.5 yo? So height of the rub will tell you antler size not age... We all know how much antler size can vary across age classes.

Good Discussion here.....

[dan]

I don't think a buck is fully mature at 3.5... I see noticeable difference in length and weight at 3 vs. 4... I think 4 and beyond is where they flatline mature.

[JoeRE]

Yea I should clarify what I said earlier, I agree a 3 year old is not a mature buck, and will continue to grow for the next couple years, but I just see a lot of overlap between 3 year olds and 5+ year olds in size. Around here most 3 year olds will weigh in at 200-240 lbs on the hoof pre-rut. Most 5 year olds will be 220-260. Without a doubt there is a big difference between a big 260 lb 5 year old and a small 200 lb 3 year old but also a lot of overlap in average sizes. Same with track sizes - just what I have seen around here in eastern IA.

Thinking about it more, I have noticed in areas where there is less agriculture bucks might take somewhat longer to bulk up, meaning 3 year olds are seem smaller...might be a bigger difference in those areas.