coyote hunters (dogs) trespassing

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vanceg
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Re: coyote hunters (dogs) trespassing

Unread postby vanceg » Tue Feb 03, 2015 8:15 am

iowa whitetail wrote:One farmer had 28 killed in one year and multiple killed other years. One of my good friends had 3 in one night as soon as the calf hits the ground they eat holes in the hind end and eat the afterbirth. The farmer would not let us hunt until he lost all the calves gave us 3000 dollars for fuel to kill them we killed little over 200 of them that year.

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Don't bother trying to convince deer hunters that hounds aren't bad. I've coon hunted and cat hunted on the same properties that I've deer hunted for 30 years and seen the same thing over and over. The deer just stand they're and look at you like dummies. In November 2012 I watched a 127" 8 point stand there and watch us kill some coons out of a tree with hounds bawling like crazy at about midnight. Buck never ran. We killed the coons got the dogs on a leash and left. I killed that buck 2 days later about 300 yards from where I treed those coons. He ended up being 7.5 years old.

I respect that people like to keep people off their property. Last Saturday I had to pull the dogs off a good cat track after running it for 5 hours. The cat went into to some private that I couldn't go on so I cut the dogs off and we moved on. Luckily we killed a nice cat later that afternoon on land I had permission to be on.

I do everything I can to not trespass but sometimes the dogs beat you to a spot. We have right to retrieve law in Michigan so I get in and get out with no weapon, totally legal.

What I get a kick out of is when guys say they're gonna shoot a hound if they see one on they're land. In Michigan that would get you a felony and that would probably be the best part of your experience if you ever shot my dogs or any of the guys dogs I hunt with.


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Re: coyote hunters (dogs) trespassing

Unread postby iowa whitetail » Tue Feb 03, 2015 8:36 am

dreaming bucks wrote:OK, here is the thing, they drove up my easement road and put fresh dogs on the track, so its not like JUST THE DOGS were on my land, they clearly switched out dogs on my land... They knew they were on somebody else's land, and did not ask anybody for permission.. And yes, this will be the last time they get by with it, the next time I'm calling it in... And for you guys thinking your doing me a favor by killing them, did you ever think maybe that I like calling for coyotes on my land, meaning I want to hunt them myself?

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driving in and doing that isn't right I agree I'm talking just dogs running threw it can't be helped. I don't drive or walk in people's land even if my dogs catch them I wait till they finally come out. That's the law hear dogs can run threw but you can't go get them them

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Re: coyote hunters (dogs) trespassing

Unread postby iowa whitetail » Tue Feb 03, 2015 8:36 am

dreaming bucks wrote:OK, here is the thing, they drove up my easement road and put fresh dogs on the track, so its not like JUST THE DOGS were on my land, they clearly switched out dogs on my land... They knew they were on somebody else's land, and did not ask anybody for permission.. And yes, this will be the last time they get by with it, the next time I'm calling it in... And for you guys thinking your doing me a favor by killing them, did you ever think maybe that I like calling for coyotes on my land, meaning I want to hunt them myself?

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driving in and doing that isn't right I agree I'm talking just dogs running threw it can't be helped. I don't drive or walk in people's land even if my dogs catch them I wait till they finally come out. That's the law hear dogs can run threw but you can't go get them them

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Haus86
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Re: coyote hunters (dogs) trespassing

Unread postby Haus86 » Tue Feb 03, 2015 8:37 am

vanceg wrote:
iowa whitetail wrote:One farmer had 28 killed in one year and multiple killed other years. One of my good friends had 3 in one night as soon as the calf hits the ground they eat holes in the hind end and eat the afterbirth. The farmer would not let us hunt until he lost all the calves gave us 3000 dollars for fuel to kill them we killed little over 200 of them that year.

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Don't bother trying to convince deer hunters that hounds aren't bad. I've coon hunted and cat hunted on the same properties that I've deer hunted for 30 years and seen the same thing over and over. The deer just stand they're and look at you like dummies. In November 2012 I watched a 127" 8 point stand there and watch us kill some coons out of a tree with hounds bawling like crazy at about midnight. Buck never ran. We killed the coons got the dogs on a leash and left. I killed that buck 2 days later about 300 yards from where I treed those coons. He ended up being 7.5 years old.

I respect that people like to keep people off their property. Last Saturday I had to pull the dogs off a good cat track after running it for 5 hours. The cat went into to some private that I couldn't go on so I cut the dogs off and we moved on. Luckily we killed a nice cat later that afternoon on land I had permission to be on.

I do everything I can to not trespass but sometimes the dogs beat you to a spot. We have right to retrieve law in Michigan so I get in and get out with no weapon, totally legal.

What I get a kick out of is when guys say they're gonna shoot a hound if they see one on they're land. In Michigan that would get you a felony and that would probably be the best part of your experience if you ever shot my dogs or any of the guys dogs I hunt with.


Vance, I think your response is what every landowner would like to hear. I also agree with you about guys threatening to shoot hounds.

You should share more of your cat hunting stories on here.
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Re: coyote hunters (dogs) trespassing

Unread postby Brad » Tue Feb 03, 2015 8:45 am

I call BS on the dogs (or hunters) not bothering the deer. Anyone ever see Hill country bucks and the dogs that ran a deer out of his bed? Also, I can see a buck being more tolerant of a dog or human intrusion at night than during the day, but that is not the point. Big bucks bed in a spot for a reason, and every intrusion in there is another notch in his weariness belt that might make him take up residence elsewhere, but even that is not the point. The point is if you are dogs are on land that you do not own and without permission, you are trespassing. Some states may allow it but it is still unethical and not right, and I would refer to someone who knowingly does this as a slob hunter, the same group of people I group as the type of hunter who trespass for other game animals, steal tree stands, or cams. We all know what is right and wrong, and this is clearly wrong and some still promote it.

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vanceg
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Re: coyote hunters (dogs) trespassing

Unread postby vanceg » Tue Feb 03, 2015 9:22 am

Brad wrote:I call BS on the dogs (or hunters) not bothering the deer. Anyone ever see Hill country bucks and the dogs that ran a deer out of his bed? Also, I can see a buck being more tolerant of a dog or human intrusion at night than during the day, but that is not the point. Big bucks bed in a spot for a reason, and every intrusion in there is another notch in his weariness belt that might make him take up residence elsewhere, but even that is not the point. The point is if you are dogs are on land that you do not own and without permission, you are trespassing. Some states may allow it but it is still unethical and not right, and I would refer to someone who knowingly does this as a slob hunter, the same group of people I group as the type of hunter who trespass for other game animals, steal tree stands, or cams. We all know what is right and wrong, and this is clearly wrong and some still promote it.

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You can call BS on dogs not bothering deer all you want but you don't know what you're talking about. You can't compare my trained hounds to some deer chasing yard dog. I control what my hound chases as do most hound hunters. Now when I get a pup, that pup better have the desire to track and chase any critter that moves in the woods. I like to eliminate deer first. My young dogs will attempt to run after a deer one time in its life, it ends that day. I train my hounds to chase what I want them to chase. I don't have time for a dog that runs deer or other off game. I wish guys like you could come hunting with me for a day to watch how deer react to hounds. Totally different situation then some yard dog mutts running deer. Since the invention of gps tracking devices I have total control over my dogs even when they are two miles away. There are some slob hound guys but there are a bunch of slob deer hunters out there too. Please don't lump all of us hound guys in with the bad ones. It's not the dogs fault either, its the owners.
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Re: coyote hunters (dogs) trespassing

Unread postby iowa whitetail » Tue Feb 03, 2015 9:31 am

Brad wrote:I call BS on the dogs (or hunters) not bothering the deer. Anyone ever see Hill country bucks and the dogs that ran a deer out of his bed? Also, I can see a buck being more tolerant of a dog or human intrusion at night than during the day, but that is not the point. Big bucks bed in a spot for a reason, and every intrusion in there is another notch in his weariness belt that might make him take up residence elsewhere, but even that is not the point. The point is if you are dogs are on land that you do not own and without permission, you are trespassing. Some states may allow it but it is still unethical and not right, and I would refer to someone who knowingly does this as a slob hunter, the same group of people I group as the type of hunter who trespass for other game animals, steal tree stands, or cams. We all know what is right and wrong, and this is clearly wrong and some still promote it.

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Ive killed 4 deer over 170 inches in the exact same sec we pound every day for coyote.
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Re: coyote hunters (dogs) trespassing

Unread postby tim » Tue Feb 03, 2015 10:36 am

The only thing that matters in any of this conversation is this....if a landowner doesn't want u or your dogs on their land u shouldn't be on there. If u don't get that there's no use in discussing it any further.

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dreaming bucks
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Re: coyote hunters (dogs) trespassing

Unread postby dreaming bucks » Tue Feb 03, 2015 11:30 am

tim wrote:The only thing that matters in any of this conversation is this....if a landowner doesn't want u or your dogs on their land u shouldn't be on there. If u don't get that there's no use in discussing it any further.

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I agree.

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Re: coyote hunters (dogs) trespassing

Unread postby PK_ » Tue Feb 03, 2015 12:05 pm

A couple thoughts.

I see guys talking about dogs getting on someone else's land giving hunters a bad name. I think openly stating on a public forum that you would shoot such a dog, gives us a much worse name. Just say it out loud. I will kill someones dog because it might bother my deer hunting. Who is the one being disrespectful? Who is the one breaking the law? Who is the one giving hunters a bad name?

Trained dogs running through your property a few times a year are doing much less damage than the resident coyotes would if left unchecked.

I tell you, the 'almighty deer' is coming to rival the 'almighty dollar'...
No Shortcuts. No Excuses. No Regrets.
Everybody's selling dreams. I'm too cheap to buy one.
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Re: coyote hunters (dogs) trespassing

Unread postby Haus86 » Tue Feb 03, 2015 12:28 pm

dreaming bucks wrote:
tim wrote:The only thing that matters in any of this conversation is this....if a landowner doesn't want u or your dogs on their land u shouldn't be on there. If u don't get that there's no use in discussing it any further.

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I agree.

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Exactly.
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Re: coyote hunters (dogs) trespassing

Unread postby iowa whitetail » Tue Feb 03, 2015 12:32 pm

PalmettoKid wrote:A couple thoughts.

I see guys talking about dogs getting on someone else's land giving hunters a bad name. I think openly stating on a public forum that you would shoot such a dog, gives us a much worse name. Just say it out loud. I will kill someones dog because it might bother my deer hunting. Who is the one being disrespectful? Who is the one breaking the law? Who is the one giving hunters a bad name?

Trained dogs running through your property a few times a year are doing much less damage than the resident coyotes would if left unchecked.

I tell you, the 'almighty deer' is coming to rival the 'almighty dollar'...
Agree 100 % rather see a man struggle to keep animals alive to come hear and shoot a deer every 4 years . The deer hunting is all about the dollar now.
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Re: coyote hunters (dogs) trespassing

Unread postby Brad » Tue Feb 03, 2015 12:41 pm

I think you took my post the wrong way. What I said is mature bucks only tolerate so much suspicious activity before moving on. I don't doubt that some deer , heck even mature bucks, probably act like nothing is wrong and just do a stare down, but that is PRESSURE. Pressure takes many forms, but the important thing is it can alter the movement of deer. That one time that you didn't think did any damage could be the last straw that buck is giving that property, we do not know the other interruptions it has incurred. BUT that is still not the point really either, the point is that a hunter (or hunters dogs which means an extension of the owner) are saying its no big deal and run them anyway regardless of where they go. That is slob hunting, and a horrible attitude in general towards hunting. That is the very stuff that gives all hunters a bad name.

Say I coyote hunt my land too (I don't own land so take it with a grain of salt) , and your hounds run off some coyotes off my land. I don't own the coyotes, nor does anyone own any free range animal, but you just trespassed by allowing them to run off the coyote that I might have killed later that evening etc. I am not a fan of coyotes and love to see them shot, so keep that in mind. Let's say you have a 180" buck living on your land, and I decide to take a stroll and push that animal off to land I can hunt so I can kill it, that is the same thing and anyone who says otherwise is a hypocrite.

Now it sounds like you have control over your hounds and that is great, but if you have control over them that means you run them on land you have access too and keep them off the land you don't, its that simple.

I do not care if neighbor Joe lost 500 calves this year , no trespassing means no trespassing, and anyone who does what this thread is about should be ticketed. I do not know the circumstances on running hounds but I think it would be great fun and i would love to try it, but it has to follow the laws just like anything else. Anyone who disregards one law or "ethics" (unwritten laws) probably is liberal on the other laws that they pick and choose to follow. Anyone that admits on here that they don't care about what their dogs do automatically makes me question the legality and ethics on every other kill they have made, whitetail, turkey, coyote etc.

vanceg wrote:
Brad wrote:I call BS on the dogs (or hunters) not bothering the deer. Anyone ever see Hill country bucks and the dogs that ran a deer out of his bed? Also, I can see a buck being more tolerant of a dog or human intrusion at night than during the day, but that is not the point. Big bucks bed in a spot for a reason, and every intrusion in there is another notch in his weariness belt that might make him take up residence elsewhere, but even that is not the point. The point is if you are dogs are on land that you do not own and without permission, you are trespassing. Some states may allow it but it is still unethical and not right, and I would refer to someone who knowingly does this as a slob hunter, the same group of people I group as the type of hunter who trespass for other game animals, steal tree stands, or cams. We all know what is right and wrong, and this is clearly wrong and some still promote it.

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You can call BS on dogs not bothering deer all you want but you don't know what you're talking about. You can't compare my trained hounds to some deer chasing yard dog. I control what my hound chases as do most hound hunters. Now when I get a pup, that pup better have the desire to track and chase any critter that moves in the woods. I like to eliminate deer first. My young dogs will attempt to run after a deer one time in its life, it ends that day. I train my hounds to chase what I want them to chase. I don't have time for a dog that runs deer or other off game. I wish guys like you could come hunting with me for a day to watch how deer react to hounds. Totally different situation then some yard dog mutts running deer. Since the invention of gps tracking devices I have total control over my dogs even when they are two miles away. There are some slob hound guys but there are a bunch of slob deer hunters out there too. Please don't lump all of us hound guys in with the bad ones. It's not the dogs fault either, its the owners.
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Re: coyote hunters (dogs) trespassing

Unread postby iowa whitetail » Tue Feb 03, 2015 1:07 pm

Haus86 wrote:Farmers don't lose calves to coyotes around my region of Iowa. It is very rare. All of the farmers I know have never been concerned about coyotes. What they do complain about are deer, which coyotes eat, but for some reason all of these big grain farmers won't let anyone hunt deer. :think:
Iowa farmer today has a good article on iowa cattle lost to coyotes.
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Re: coyote hunters (dogs) trespassing

Unread postby JJWI » Tue Feb 03, 2015 3:17 pm

Brad wrote:I call BS on the dogs (or hunters) not bothering the deer. Anyone ever see Hill country bucks and the dogs that ran a deer out of his bed? Also, I can see a buck being more tolerant of a dog or human intrusion at night than during the day, but that is not the point. Big bucks bed in a spot for a reason, and every intrusion in there is another notch in his weariness belt that might make him take up residence elsewhere, but even that is not the point. The point is if you are dogs are on land that you do not own and without permission, you are trespassing. Some states may allow it but it is still unethical and not right, and I would refer to someone who knowingly does this as a slob hunter, the same group of people I group as the type of hunter who trespass for other game animals, steal tree stands, or cams. We all know what is right and wrong, and this is clearly wrong and some still promote it.

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The biggest factor in the Hill Country Bucks video is the dogs were pursuing the buck. As long as the dog isn't running the deer, the deer don't bust out of the area. Even on mature bucks, 2 years ago, my dogs ran a coon through a corn field not 50 yards from a hay field a 150 class buck was in. Both dogs treed 75 yards on the field edge and my daughter and I jumped this buck out of the field going to the dogs. The land owners son shot that buck a week later in that same field. A friend of mine owns 300 acres of the nicest creek bottom you ever seen. He had the same idea that the dogs run the deer out of the woods. I took him out one night during the summer. The field before the woods had about 20 deer in it. I turned my dog loose and all the deer looked at the dog as it ran past them. She got treed on the creek bank, and my friend couldn't believe there was a doe bedded 30 yards on the other side of the creek while my dog was treeing. Since that night he has no problem letting me hunt during the fall. Any time you want to go hunting and see what hound hunting is about, you have an open invite Brad. I am a hound hunter, and I don't agree with letting dogs run through with out permission. Asking for permission goes a long ways, but don't abuse it. That goes for any type of hunting. I have some areas that but up with other land owners that don't want me hunting in there woods. I simply ask if my dog goes from the land that I have permission to hunt and goes over in to their property, do I have permission to get my dog. A lot of times they will grant me permission to go in and get my dog. And that is exactly what I do if that situation comes about. No shining the tree, no shooting, leash up, and walk straight out. In all the years I have been hunting, I have never had a land owner say the deer sightings have gone down since I started hunting.


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