Pope and Young ??

[Master Chief]

When I started hunting a P&Y buck was an unrealistic goal. I think that is why my goal was to get one in the book. [glow=red]Now days you can get one pretty easy.[/glow]

Say What???

Really?

Stan, I know more than a few pretty good Bowhunters that are finding it a challenge to get one in the book.
They hunt MN and/or WI. They have had the goal for some time now, and have come close but that darn NET thing cas be a but kicker.

I am not trying to insinuate that you need to be some kind of supernatural deer killer; but I will stand by the statement that it surly aint easy.

If you have access to the right land, it would definitely be easy.

You could probably train a monkey to kill a P&Y on a big private mid-west piece of land

[ Post made via iPhone ]

[Arrowbender]

You could probably train a monkey to kill a P&Y on a big private mid-west piece of land

And with a fifth grade education a booner is a real possibility!!!

The OP was if and why people get their bucks scored. It stemmed from Ed's post asking how many of the 4K forum members had killed that "class" of animal.
It seemed somewhat apparent that there was a large number of forum members that had not killed an animal of that "size".

The intent of this particular discussion wasn't meant to get opinions on the ease of killing Popers; but if you did; would you get it officially scored.

So....with that being said, I will assume that the ease of obtaining that class of animal is a valid reason for not scoring them.

[James]

So for me P&Y isn't that big of a deal in today's environment. That said a guy hunting in an area that has no P&Y bucks it would be a big deal to get one in that area. Lets face it if you want to spend some money, be it traveling, or leases, or with an outfitter, you can get a P&Y buck. Not knocking those that do, just saying.

I disagree whole heartitly Stanley. For the past 10 years I have been hunting very hard and in areas known for big bucks in two states. I have killed what I would consider a nice buck every single year except for 2014. I ate my tags in both states this year passing up several bucks that would have likely been more heart breakers when it comes to P&Y score. I did come close to sealing the deal on a estimated 160"+ on November 15, but I wouldn't say one buck in 10 years makes it "not a big deal in today's environment".

So you can either call me unlucky, not a great hunter, or claim that I don't hunt in the right areas but I would disagree with all of those statements. For a record of my past years, and my take on what it takes to make P&Y see this post. viewtopic.php?f=3&t=23358

Now, I have 3 preference points for Iowa, so maybe the holy land will allow me to finally complete a goal, but I'll just be happy with a mature deer just as well.

[Jackson Marsh]

Now, I have 3 preference points for Iowa, so maybe the holy land will allow me to finally complete a goal, but I'll just be happy with a mature deer just as well.[/quote]


I can't wait for my next pilgrimage to the holy land

[ Post made via Android ]

[JoeRE]

Like most I measure them myself and only use gross score to compare antlers. I am a pretty technical person and am confident I am always within an inch of what an official scorer would come up with on most pretty typical racks....some racks get complicated.

And Stan...trust me if you hunted a few other states other than Iowa you would eat your words about a P&Y being easy I live here in IA too but have hunted a few other spots, we have it good. Sure buy 1000 acres anywhere in the northern 2/3 of the US and be hip deep in bucks BUT finding big land is a lot harder to do in other states...and a lot more expensive.

[Stanley]

Like most I measure them myself and only use gross score to compare antlers. I am a pretty technical person and am confident I am always within an inch of what an official scorer would come up with on most pretty typical racks....some racks get complicated.

And Stan...trust me if you hunted a few other states other than Iowa you would eat your words about a P&Y being easy I live here in IA too but have hunted a few other spots, we have it good. Sure buy 1000 acres anywhere in the northern 2/3 of the US and be hip deep in bucks BUT finding big land is a lot harder to do in other states...and a lot more expensive.

Where did you get the ides that I haven't hunted other states? I never referenced any state in my post. I merely was stating that those that really want to kill a P&Y buck can do it fairly easily. The options to do so are plenty as I stated and in many different state. Some guys even kill multiple P&Y caliber bucks in a year.

[Stanley]

So for me P&Y isn't that big of a deal in today's environment. That said a guy hunting in an area that has no P&Y bucks it would be a big deal to get one in that area. Lets face it if you want to spend some money, be it traveling, or leases, or with an outfitter, you can get a P&Y buck. Not knocking those that do, just saying.

I disagree whole heartitly Stanley. For the past 10 years I have been hunting very hard and in areas known for big bucks in two states. I have killed what I would consider a nice buck every single year except for 2014. I ate my tags in both states this year passing up several bucks that would have likely been more heart breakers when it comes to P&Y score. I did come close to sealing the deal on a estimated 160"+ on November 15, but I wouldn't say one buck in 10 years makes it "not a big deal in today's environment".

So you can either call me unlucky, not a great hunter, or claim that I don't hunt in the right areas but I would disagree with all of those statements. For a record of my past years, and my take on what it takes to make P&Y see this post. viewtopic.php?f=3&t=23358

Now, I have 3 preference points for Iowa, so maybe the holy land will allow me to finally complete a goal, but I'll just be happy with a mature deer just as well.

I would say that is pretty successful. If you really want to kill a P&Y buck you can, if you really don't want to, you will kill lesser bucks. Like I said you could lease land, go with an outfitter things like this. There are a lot of P&Y bucks killed other than just those killed in Iowa. If you really, really want to kill a P&Y young buck there is nothing holding you back from it. There are guys hunting states other than Iowa that are passing up P&Y bucks.

[Stanley]

You could probably train a monkey to kill a P&Y on a big private mid-west piece of land

And with a fifth grade education a booner is a real possibility!!!

The OP was if and why people get their bucks scored. It stemmed from Ed's post asking how many of the 4K forum members had killed that "class" of animal.
It seemed somewhat apparent that there was a large number of forum members that had not killed an animal of that "size".

The intent of this particular discussion wasn't meant to get opinions on the ease of killing Popers; but if you did; would you get it officially scored.

So....with that being said, I will assume that the ease of obtaining that class of animal is a valid reason for not scoring them.

I think that is a fair assumption. The book has millions of bucks 125+. Don't get me wrong I see nothing wrong with a minimum P&Y buck. It does make a person wonder how hard it could be when you hear of guys passing up low end P&Y bucks. Anyway I did not mean to hijack your thread.

There will always be more guys that don't kill big bucks than those that do. That does not mean they can't, it is more like they are satisfied not to.

[Stanley]

Now, I have 3 preference points for Iowa, so maybe the holy land will allow me to finally complete a goal, but I'll just be happy with a mature deer just as well.

I can't wait for my next pilgrimage to the holy land

[ Post made via Android ] [/quote]
I just talked to four guys that hunted The late season muzzle loader season in Iowa. I think they were from out east NJ. They killed one buck that scored 137. They also left a day early the weather was too rough for them. -15 below and 35 mph winds did them in. They were on a 9 day DIY outfitter hunt. P&Y minimum caliber was not what they were after.

[JoeRE]

Like most I measure them myself and only use gross score to compare antlers. I am a pretty technical person and am confident I am always within an inch of what an official scorer would come up with on most pretty typical racks....some racks get complicated.

And Stan...trust me if you hunted a few other states other than Iowa you would eat your words about a P&Y being easy I live here in IA too but have hunted a few other spots, we have it good. Sure buy 1000 acres anywhere in the northern 2/3 of the US and be hip deep in bucks BUT finding big land is a lot harder to do in other states...and a lot more expensive.

Where did you get the ides that I haven't hunted other states? I never referenced any state in my post. I merely was stating that those that really want to kill a P&Y buck can do it fairly easily. The options to do so are plenty as I stated and in many different state. Some guys even kill multiple P&Y caliber bucks in a year.

Stan, I didn't mean anything personal. Based on your posts over the years it seems like you are Iowa born and raised and only have hunted Iowa. Is that true? Most of us Iowa boys think its easy to kill a P&Y deer, I hear it all the time...and I actually agree - here in Iowa. Yes most people can travel but an Iowa tag costs over $700 if you include the almost mandatory 3 years of preference points to get one and then there are travel and lodging costs as well. A quality outfitter in any state is also pricey. As you point out, there is no sure thing even hunting great ground so it might take several trips to kill a P&Y....that is beyond the ability or budget of lots of hunters. No offence, just a difference in opinion!

[365all_out]

I don't take score into consideration. If I were to shoot a monster I would score it with a buddy over a couple beers & Old fashions.

[Arrowbender]

Stanley once said

Takes a pretty nice buck to net 125 no matter what all those 170 inch guys say.

But then on this thread says

Now days you can get one pretty easy.

I am not sure how to take this. I am quite sure that more than a few could take it as an insult. I think we as hunters need to take a step back and see where we are as hunters as compared to where we came from.

Stanley also points out that he had the same goal to put a Poper on the wall as an up and comer

When I started hunting a P&Y buck was an unrealistic goal.

I don't think he started hunting too much prior to the discovery of the golden triangle of Illinois. And that area was not famous until it produced some absolute giants. That tells me that the goal of obtaining a P&Y buck really wouldn't have been any more unrealistic than it is today.

The problem with that line of thinking is that most of us on this forum that have the "Goal" of putting that 1st Poper in the book, have that goal of doing so on the current properties that we are hunting because it IS a possibility, albeit a challenge.

When we accept that challenge, we realize that to get that category of a buck, we need to pass some lessor bucks or if we shoot marginal bucks accept the fact they may not make "book".
Which ever option we choose, it doesn't diminish the difficulty of achieving our goal; but just reinfrces the fact that 130" class deer aren't behind every tree in most wood lots.
AND along with that I will add; NOT "easy"!

Stanley is held in pretty high regard on this forum. And I agree, rightfully so.
He is held in such high regard because of his past experience (can gain a lot of experience in a century of hunting ).

I think that maybe he takes his knowledge for granted. He is constantly pointing out how his buddies do not put down the same caliber of animals that he does.
Do they lack the desire?
I doubt it.
Do they lack the "environment"?
They are on the eternal "pilmgrimage"!

No. I think that maybe it is just a little bit bigger deal to kill a buck that scores 125" net than some people think.

[Stanley]

Like most I measure them myself and only use gross score to compare antlers. I am a pretty technical person and am confident I am always within an inch of what an official scorer would come up with on most pretty typical racks....some racks get complicated.

And Stan...trust me if you hunted a few other states other than Iowa you would eat your words about a P&Y being easy I live here in IA too but have hunted a few other spots, we have it good. Sure buy 1000 acres anywhere in the northern 2/3 of the US and be hip deep in bucks BUT finding big land is a lot harder to do in other states...and a lot more expensive.

Where did you get the ides that I haven't hunted other states? I never referenced any state in my post. I merely was stating that those that really want to kill a P&Y buck can do it fairly easily. The options to do so are plenty as I stated and in many different state. Some guys even kill multiple P&Y caliber bucks in a year.

Stan, I didn't mean anything personal. Based on your posts over the years it seems like you are Iowa born and raised and only have hunted Iowa. Is that true? Most of us Iowa boys think its easy to kill a P&Y deer, I hear it all the time...and I actually agree - here in Iowa. Yes most people can travel but an Iowa tag costs over $700 if you include the almost mandatory 3 years of preference points to get one and then there are travel and lodging costs as well. A quality outfitter in any state is also pricey. As you point out, there is no sure thing even hunting great ground so it might take several trips to kill a P&Y....that is beyond the ability or budget of lots of hunters. No offence, just a difference in opinion!

A lot of the younger hunters haven't experienced when Iowa had very few deer. They have only seen the good years. It used to be much easier to go to Wisconsin, Missouri, Minnesota to name a few. And yes I have hunted those states along with some others. I'm actually well traveled, I do reside in Iowa and for a reason I like it here. I guess the point I'm trying to make is if you really truly want to kill a P&Y buck the opportunities are available in many states not just Iowa.

Those opportunities weren't as readily available years ago. I guess it is impossible for the newer generation hunters to relate. The opportunities and possibilities are endless in today's environment. When I hear today's hunters say it isn't easy they may be right but compared to years past that were next to impossible, that makes today's not easy appear easy. So our difference of opinions are really based on a generation gap rather than what is easy and what is not.

Looking at it from the younger generation hunters perspective it is not easy. Looking at it from an old pelicans view, it's a piece of cake. We are getting way off topic as Arrowbender pointed out. The thread was started to converse about P&Y and entering a buck.

[Stanley]

Stanley once said

Takes a pretty nice buck to net 125 no matter what all those 170 inch guys say.

But then on this thread says

Now days you can get one pretty easy.

I am not sure how to take this. I am quite sure that more than a few could take it as an insult. I think we as hunters need to take a step back and see where we are as hunters as compared to where we came from.

Stanley also points out that he had the same goal to put a Poper on the wall as an up and comer

When I started hunting a P&Y buck was an unrealistic goal.

I don't think he started hunting too much prior to the discovery of the golden triangle of Illinois. And that area was not famous until it produced some absolute giants. That tells me that the goal of obtaining a P&Y buck really wouldn't have been any more unrealistic than it is today.

The problem with that line of thinking is that most of us on this forum that have the "Goal" of putting that 1st Poper in the book, have that goal of doing so on the current properties that we are hunting because it IS a possibility, albeit a challenge.

When we accept that challenge, we realize that to get that category of a buck, we need to pass some lessor bucks or if we shoot marginal bucks accept the fact they may not make "book".
Which ever option we choose, it doesn't diminish the difficulty of achieving our goal; but just reinfrces the fact that 130" class deer aren't behind every tree in most wood lots.
AND along with that I will add; NOT "easy"!

Stanley is held in pretty high regard on this forum. And I agree, rightfully so.
He is held in such high regard because of his past experience (can gain a lot of experience in a century of hunting ).

I think that maybe he takes his knowledge for granted. He is constantly pointing out how his buddies do not put down the same caliber of animals that he does.
Do they lack the desire?
I doubt it.
Do they lack the "environment"?
They are on the eternal "pilmgrimage"!

No. I think that maybe it is just a little bit bigger deal to kill a buck that scores 125" net than some people think.

I still say a 125 inch buck is a nice buck. You will never hear me say it isn't. There is no comparison hunting today, than it was 45-50 years ago. A guy can come on the Beast site and learn in a short period of time what it took years to learn. There are areas that had very few deer 45-50 years ago. Now, today those ares are loaded up with deer. That surely makes it easier.

I honestly think if a guy really wants to kill a P&Y buck he will do it. Look at the buck line up on the Beast lots of P&Y bucks killed by those that really want to kill one. When I hear a guy say it is not easy to kill a P&Y buck and they are killing 1.5 year old bucks. Then to me they really don't want to kill a P&Y buck. I talked to a friend of mine just this week. He killed two 1.5 year old bucks this year. He is in his mid sixties.

He acted like he was happy and that is ok. Now, that tells me he is not interested in killing a P&Y buck. He is more interested in killing a buck any brown buck. He was telling me how hard it was to kill a good buck. Now if he would have eaten his tag and not killed two scrub bucks I might have agreed with him. So I guess you are correct it is tougher to kill a P&Y buck than some people think it is. Great topic for discussion Arrowbender.

[Stanley]

You could probably train a monkey to kill a P&Y on a big private mid-west piece of land

And with a fifth grade education a booner is a real possibility!!!

The OP was if and why people get their bucks scored. It stemmed from Ed's post asking how many of the 4K forum members had killed that "class" of animal.
It seemed somewhat apparent that there was a large number of forum members that had not killed an animal of that "size".

The intent of this particular discussion wasn't meant to get opinions on the ease of killing Popers; but if you did; would you get it officially scored.

So....with that being said, I will assume that the ease of obtaining that class of animal is a valid reason for not scoring them.

I thought 84 % voted that have killed 1 or more was pretty good.