Knock'n on Doors.

[phade]

Phade -

I am interested in anything else you have to share about your methods.

Thank you.

Ask any specific questions and I can share what works for me. It may not work for you, but you can tweak it to fit your style.

When scouting GIS sites, I look for old names. You know...Ethel, Peter, Merle, etc. Old names are likely....old people. Old people LOVE letters. They grew up with them. One permission I recently received was from an older lady who responded to my request in writing. She sent a nice thank you card and wrote out my permission and thanked me for reaching out to her with the letter.

I initially thought women would be a heavy favorite to target, but my data has shown it to be a 50/50 proposition. Women are no more likely to respond via letter then men. I am shocked at how many women have the land in their names or who own land independently, however.

[phade]

I admire your hard work Phade. Have you ever thought of sending out letters, and then contacting all of the landowners by phone maybe a week or so later? I think you would maybe be able to pick up a few more properties if you didn't wait for them to contact you.

I don't bother calling the out-of-state letters. I seem to get a higher response rate of about 40%, where as in-state is about 25%. Most are no, but the yes and maybe do trickle in. When I am sending letters out of state, I tend to be more selective on the owners I contact because I internet scout the immediate areas I want to hunt and then focus on parcels that offer the aerial/topo characteristics to having deer/good hunting. If I get a yes...chances are that parcel is sound.

In-state, I have tried that and followed up with landowners, but have never connected on one that didn't respond from the letter contact. The only one that I probably would have been able to land would have been the cop, which would have just been a reminder call since he did want to give me permission anyway. My take on it now is that you are not tapping into people who would say yes in any circumstance or would only do so in-person on the initial request. I do look at GIS aerials and if the parcel could hold deer, I reach out. It's not much to go check out a "Yes" locally, unlike out of state. A call a week later is a bit early, if you do decide to do this. 10-14 days is more realistic I think. Sometimes a letter can take a few days to reach the owner, and you don't want to present yourself as a nagger. I think a two-week follow-up is appropriate. But, I've yet to get a yes that route. Either they call, write, or email back and open the dialogue, or you are not getting anywhere for the most part.

Without a doubt there are some owners who want the eye-to-eye approach. This will not work for them. Problem is, you don't know who they are, so I factor them in as a cost of business. I reach out with letters, take the yes responses, and build the relationships. I haven't gotten to the point where I am not getting the solid property to hunt via this route, so I don't feel like I need to identify and initially present myself in person.

I will say I do meet all of the landowners that reply with a yes. Letters are just an avenue to open the door to the conversation. Once the "yes" is replied...everything else is easy. No stress in talking to them, setting expectations is easy and they seem to be even more confident in their decision after that conversation. It's just an effective approach to gaining access in large for me.

One interesting tidbit to consider if you really don't mind spending the extra cash. Include a SASE in your letter for their response. I tend to get higher response rates when doing so. I think it makes people feel obligated to respond when you do include a SASE and make it easy for them to reply. But, I can't say that it resulted in a higher Yes rate. I opted to stop including the SASE and really haven't felt any pain from doing so. You can essentially reach out to 2x the amount of people when not including a SASE for the same dollar amount. It's a numbers game in the end.

[MOBIGBUCKS]

I admire your hard work Phade. Have you ever thought of sending out letters, and then contacting all of the landowners by phone maybe a week or so later? I think you would maybe be able to pick up a few more properties if you didn't wait for them to contact you.

I don't bother calling the out-of-state letters. I seem to get a higher response rate of about 40%, where as in-state is about 25%. Most are no, but the yes and maybe do trickle in. When I am sending letters out of state, I tend to be more selective on the owners I contact because I internet scout the immediate areas I want to hunt and then focus on parcels that offer the aerial/topo characteristics to having deer/good hunting. If I get a yes...chances are that parcel is sound.

In-state, I have tried that and followed up with landowners, but have never connected on one that didn't respond from the letter contact. The only one that I probably would have been able to land would have been the cop, which would have just been a reminder call since he did want to give me permission anyway. My take on it now is that you are not tapping into people who would say yes in any circumstance or would only do so in-person on the initial request. I do look at GIS aerials and if the parcel could hold deer, I reach out. It's not much to go check out a "Yes" locally, unlike out of state. A call a week later is a bit early, if you do decide to do this. 10-14 days is more realistic I think. Sometimes a letter can take a few days to reach the owner, and you don't want to present yourself as a nagger. I think a two-week follow-up is appropriate. But, I've yet to get a yes that route. Either they call, write, or email back and open the dialogue, or you are not getting anywhere for the most part.

Without a doubt there are some owners who want the eye-to-eye approach. This will not work for them. Problem is, you don't know who they are, so I factor them in as a cost of business. I reach out with letters, take the yes responses, and build the relationships. I haven't gotten to the point where I am not getting the solid property to hunt via this route, so I don't feel like I need to identify and initially present myself in person.

I will say I do meet all of the landowners that reply with a yes. Letters are just an avenue to open the door to the conversation. Once the "yes" is replied...everything else is easy. No stress in talking to them, setting expectations is easy and they seem to be even more confident in their decision after that conversation. It's just an effective approach to gaining access in large for me.

One interesting tidbit to consider if you really don't mind spending the extra cash. Include a SASE in your letter for their response. I tend to get higher response rates when doing so. I think it makes people feel obligated to respond when you do include a SASE and make it easy for them to reply. But, I can't say that it resulted in a higher Yes rate. I opted to stop including the SASE and really haven't felt any pain from doing so. You can essentially reach out to 2x the amount of people when not including a SASE for the same dollar amount. It's a numbers game in the end.

I've been using the same method that Phade has been using for a couple years. It works better in rural areas but not as good close to cities. I think around the city I have sent close to 100 letters and only received a yes twice. However, I have gotten a lot of landowner responses where they already had someone hunting there. If they didn't have someone hunting there, I would have possibly been in on those spots. It takes a lot of time and work to get all of the necessary research to formulate one of these letters. just like Phade, I have a good template that I adjust based on who exactly I'm sending the letter to.

I will say that Public land is so much simpler in regards to hunting access!

[phade]

I admire your hard work Phade. Have you ever thought of sending out letters, and then contacting all of the landowners by phone maybe a week or so later? I think you would maybe be able to pick up a few more properties if you didn't wait for them to contact you.

I don't bother calling the out-of-state letters. I seem to get a higher response rate of about 40%, where as in-state is about 25%. Most are no, but the yes and maybe do trickle in. When I am sending letters out of state, I tend to be more selective on the owners I contact because I internet scout the immediate areas I want to hunt and then focus on parcels that offer the aerial/topo characteristics to having deer/good hunting. If I get a yes...chances are that parcel is sound.

In-state, I have tried that and followed up with landowners, but have never connected on one that didn't respond from the letter contact. The only one that I probably would have been able to land would have been the cop, which would have just been a reminder call since he did want to give me permission anyway. My take on it now is that you are not tapping into people who would say yes in any circumstance or would only do so in-person on the initial request. I do look at GIS aerials and if the parcel could hold deer, I reach out. It's not much to go check out a "Yes" locally, unlike out of state. A call a week later is a bit early, if you do decide to do this. 10-14 days is more realistic I think. Sometimes a letter can take a few days to reach the owner, and you don't want to present yourself as a nagger. I think a two-week follow-up is appropriate. But, I've yet to get a yes that route. Either they call, write, or email back and open the dialogue, or you are not getting anywhere for the most part.

Without a doubt there are some owners who want the eye-to-eye approach. This will not work for them. Problem is, you don't know who they are, so I factor them in as a cost of business. I reach out with letters, take the yes responses, and build the relationships. I haven't gotten to the point where I am not getting the solid property to hunt via this route, so I don't feel like I need to identify and initially present myself in person.

I will say I do meet all of the landowners that reply with a yes. Letters are just an avenue to open the door to the conversation. Once the "yes" is replied...everything else is easy. No stress in talking to them, setting expectations is easy and they seem to be even more confident in their decision after that conversation. It's just an effective approach to gaining access in large for me.

One interesting tidbit to consider if you really don't mind spending the extra cash. Include a SASE in your letter for their response. I tend to get higher response rates when doing so. I think it makes people feel obligated to respond when you do include a SASE and make it easy for them to reply. But, I can't say that it resulted in a higher Yes rate. I opted to stop including the SASE and really haven't felt any pain from doing so. You can essentially reach out to 2x the amount of people when not including a SASE for the same dollar amount. It's a numbers game in the end.

I've been using the same method that Phade has been using for a couple years. It works better in rural areas but not as good close to cities. I think around the city I have sent close to 100 letters and only received a yes twice. However, I have gotten a lot of landowner responses where they already had someone hunting there. If they didn't have someone hunting there, I would have possibly been in on those spots. It takes a lot of time and work to get all of the necessary research to formulate one of these letters. just like Phade, I have a good template that I adjust based on who exactly I'm sending the letter to.

I will say that Public land is so much simpler in regards to hunting access!

So, let's put this in perspective...a 2% success rate. Pretty low on face value. But, it's two spots, it didn't cost much - $50 in stamps/envelopes, and a handful of hours getting them printed and mailed. I'd say that's actually a good result for a city area. Knocking on 100 doors probably would have cost you that much in gas and a lot more time. I too have a lower success rate near city/suburb, but the key lower success rate shouldn't be a deterrent - they'd be hard ground to get onto in any situation. Two spots in suburbia can be a gold mine.

[MOBIGBUCKS]

I admire your hard work Phade. Have you ever thought of sending out letters, and then contacting all of the landowners by phone maybe a week or so later? I think you would maybe be able to pick up a few more properties if you didn't wait for them to contact you.

I don't bother calling the out-of-state letters. I seem to get a higher response rate of about 40%, where as in-state is about 25%. Most are no, but the yes and maybe do trickle in. When I am sending letters out of state, I tend to be more selective on the owners I contact because I internet scout the immediate areas I want to hunt and then focus on parcels that offer the aerial/topo characteristics to having deer/good hunting. If I get a yes...chances are that parcel is sound.

In-state, I have tried that and followed up with landowners, but have never connected on one that didn't respond from the letter contact. The only one that I probably would have been able to land would have been the cop, which would have just been a reminder call since he did want to give me permission anyway. My take on it now is that you are not tapping into people who would say yes in any circumstance or would only do so in-person on the initial request. I do look at GIS aerials and if the parcel could hold deer, I reach out. It's not much to go check out a "Yes" locally, unlike out of state. A call a week later is a bit early, if you do decide to do this. 10-14 days is more realistic I think. Sometimes a letter can take a few days to reach the owner, and you don't want to present yourself as a nagger. I think a two-week follow-up is appropriate. But, I've yet to get a yes that route. Either they call, write, or email back and open the dialogue, or you are not getting anywhere for the most part.

Without a doubt there are some owners who want the eye-to-eye approach. This will not work for them. Problem is, you don't know who they are, so I factor them in as a cost of business. I reach out with letters, take the yes responses, and build the relationships. I haven't gotten to the point where I am not getting the solid property to hunt via this route, so I don't feel like I need to identify and initially present myself in person.

I will say I do meet all of the landowners that reply with a yes. Letters are just an avenue to open the door to the conversation. Once the "yes" is replied...everything else is easy. No stress in talking to them, setting expectations is easy and they seem to be even more confident in their decision after that conversation. It's just an effective approach to gaining access in large for me.

One interesting tidbit to consider if you really don't mind spending the extra cash. Include a SASE in your letter for their response. I tend to get higher response rates when doing so. I think it makes people feel obligated to respond when you do include a SASE and make it easy for them to reply. But, I can't say that it resulted in a higher Yes rate. I opted to stop including the SASE and really haven't felt any pain from doing so. You can essentially reach out to 2x the amount of people when not including a SASE for the same dollar amount. It's a numbers game in the end.

I've been using the same method that Phade has been using for a couple years. It works better in rural areas but not as good close to cities. I think around the city I have sent close to 100 letters and only received a yes twice. However, I have gotten a lot of landowner responses where they already had someone hunting there. If they didn't have someone hunting there, I would have possibly been in on those spots. It takes a lot of time and work to get all of the necessary research to formulate one of these letters. just like Phade, I have a good template that I adjust based on who exactly I'm sending the letter to.

I will say that Public land is so much simpler in regards to hunting access!

So, let's put this in perspective...a 2% success rate. Pretty low on face value. But, it's two spots, it didn't cost much - $50 in stamps/envelopes, and a handful of hours getting them printed and mailed. I'd say that's actually a good result for a city area. Knocking on 100 doors probably would have cost you that much in gas and a lot more time. I too have a lower success rate near city/suburb, but the key lower success rate shouldn't be a deterrent - they'd be hard ground to get onto in any situation. Two spots in suburbia can be a gold mine.

I totally agree on the travel expenses. I had the same mindset as you in regards to time, travel costs etc. It would have cost a fortune to do what I did with the letters; that is why I researched and sent all of those letters. The system definitely has merit! One of the spots I received permission on was a dud once I scouted it. They had horses running all over the property!! The biggest problem was the guy he rented a house to on the property. I caught him on my cameras multiple times waling around triggering my cameras with sticks. The landowner just wanted a hand doing some work around his house and rental properties in exchange for hunting. I helped him several times but never messed with the hunting the property. The place would have been awesome without the guy walking all over the property.

The second property was a gold mine, but I have yet to meet the landowner face to face. He keeps blowing me off yet he responded to my letter and tentatively said yes. I guess he had to contact his lawyer and see if he could be held liable if I was hurt. I sent a release of liability with my initial letter but I guess that wasn't enough. I need to tactfully pursue contact with him again and may have to send a courtesy letter for him to contact me if hunting was still a possibility.

[dan]

I rarely ever ask for permission any more. I just deal with what I have, but when I did, the thing that worked best for me was to get a conversation going and listen... Really listen to what the land owner says, there is usually some good clues about what he wants to hear, and see iout of you that will come across if your good at reading a person.
Every one of them is different...

[ozzz]

How do you narrow down properties to send letters too. Obvously looking at aeriel/topo maps but there is so much.

Do you find a county you are interested in an get a plat book? Look for certain size pieces? Just match the plat book land owner boundaries to aerial/topos and go for what looks good?

[MOBIGBUCKS]

How do you narrow down properties to send letters too. Obvously looking at aeriel/topo maps but there is so much.

Do you find a county you are interested in an get a plat book? Look for certain size pieces? Just match the plat book land owner boundaries to aerial/topos and go for what looks good?

Ozzz,

Start locally with areas you know have big deer first. Find the owners and start doing some letters. This is how I began and then branched out. Like phade said, most people are against trying this method but it definitely works!

[ozzz]

How do you narrow down properties to send letters too. Obvously looking at aeriel/topo maps but there is so much.

Do you find a county you are interested in an get a plat book? Look for certain size pieces? Just match the plat book land owner boundaries to aerial/topos and go for what looks good?

Ozzz,

Start locally with areas you know have big deer first. Find the owners and start doing some letters. This is how I began and then branched out. Like phade said, most people are against trying this method but it definitely works!

Its hard to deny the efficiency of it VS driving around knocking on doors.

[365buckin]

Are the addresses for the land owners gained from the GIS county land records websites? And are those most of the time current? How do you know that the address listed is where the landowner actually lives? For example, maybe its a cabin/cottage/lake house/vacation property. Because some of the cabins around my area have mailboxes on them and I have never once seen a person at them.

[DropTyne]

Any examples of the letter, or at least what's included in the letter information wise?

[ Post made via iPad ]

[phade]

Are the addresses for the land owners gained from the GIS county land records websites? And are those most of the time current? How do you know that the address listed is where the landowner actually lives? For example, maybe its a cabin/cottage/lake house/vacation property. Because some of the cabins around my area have mailboxes on them and I have never once seen a person at them.

Yes. Yes. You are overthinking things. Most GIS sites have addresses for the physical location, but more than half have both the physical and mailing address.

Still, remember you are talking about a numbers game, overthinking it just makes it more confusing and is what people do that ultimately dismiss it. Just put together the letters, locate the GIS information, and get to sending.

I will say I have received several requests for my letter template via PM. I've thought about it. While I have no qualms sharing, it's best to really come up with one on your own. Why is that? Because you wrote it and the meaning of the letter will come through better than one prepared by someone else. It's really that simple.

I've detailed quite a bit as to what I put in letters in my prior posts. I think MOBB may have too. Just the basics - who you are, what you are seeking, etc.

One other tidbit I will say that I recalled after posting last time. One GIS site I used had owner address and parcel information, but NOT owner name. That made things hard because I had to go to the town to get that info in person. The county has a big city in it and ordering the books over the phone was cost-prohibitive. So, I tested out one area with general letters without the owner information. I even included in it that I couldn't find the owner name in the GIS site.

Ultimately, it didn't turn out well. Granted it was in a city area, but I think the lack of an owner name is a key point. It needs to be there. Otherwise, I think they feel like it is a form letter. I got a few replies back, but much lower rate.


Ozzz - There is indeed so much. And, that is why you can "throw spaghetti on the wall to see what sticks." I look for aerials on the GIS sites and Bing and if it looks solid in the areas I pinpoint (as said look for known areas of good hunting and those just on the fringe of those areas)...then I send. You really can't overthink it. If it looks viable, then send one. It costs you very little in the grand scheme of things. I will also suggest NOT overlooking small parcels - I'm talking 5,10, 15, 20 acre pieces. Especially with homes attached to it. You may think it'd be worthless, but they pan out sometimes. Plus, when you do land one, you have a large chance at being exclusive because they won't grant permission if there is another hunter on such a small parcel. I generally target all parcel sizes. The largest I have gained access to was a 440 acre farm and one that had thousands of acres. Granted, neither were exclusive, but there was plenty of hunting space. The exclusive gems I have now are generally 75 and under. I tend to focus on them though just as a personal preference - most times if I get a yes...there's also nobody on it, or lightly hunted.

[oldrank]

I would have to have ZERO public land opportunities within 50 miles before Id ever knock on someone's door for hunting permission... just not my style. The only way I hunt private is if its offered to me or if its friends or family.

[yungbuck]

I would have to have ZERO public land opportunities within 50 miles before Id ever knock on someone's door for hunting permission... just not my style. The only way I hunt private is if its offered to me or if its friends or family.

this is why i posed the question- my closest public land is an hour drive and it gets hammered. Literally opening day last season I sat in some thick nasty and never saw a person all day (saw one buck), waited til dark to leave so no one saw "my setup". When i got to the check station to sign out and turn in my permit card their were 40-50 people in the park that day for deer. Considering its a 1000 acre poperty and 25% of it is crops, meaning each hunter had around 16 acres to himself that day. that is what really convicted me to start workin on other locating land.

[MOBIGBUCKS]

I would have to have ZERO public land opportunities within 50 miles before Id ever knock on someone's door for hunting permission... just not my style. The only way I hunt private is if its offered to me or if its friends or family.

this is why i posed the question- my closest public land is an hour drive and it gets hammered. Literally opening day last season I sat in some thick nasty and never saw a person all day (saw one buck), waited til dark to leave so no one saw "my setup". When i got to the check station to sign out and turn in my permit card their were 40-50 people in the park that day for deer. Considering its a 1000 acre poperty and 25% of it is crops, meaning each hunter had around 16 acres to himself that day. that is what really convicted me to start workin on other locating land.

Absolutely a good reason to branch out. I live near a big city and you may as well cross off any public land within 75-100 miles...Pressure can be dealt with in some habitats but not oak laden Hill Country with tons of pressure.

It's worth a shot to get out there and ask. I would network with friends and family first and foremost before taking the next step.