The Johnny King buck ( story from Jay Fish)

[jay f.]

You wouldn't think it would be this hard to get a club like B&C to follow our rules. Yes they are our rules as it says in the inside cover of the scorers manual

[Dhurtubise]

Well, at least they should be able to follow their own rules and precedents.

[jay f.]

A mistake was made and some people don't know how to admit it.

[MOBIGBUCKS]

A mistake was made and some people don't know how to admit it.

Exactly. What a disservice to the lucky hunter and the magnificent whitetail.

[DEERSLAYER]

To me the King buck has a common base and that should be all there is to it, but then you look through those pics and you wonder what's going on. Those deer very obviously have common bases... Big time. If the rule say's no common base then it should be that way for everyone. I think they need follow their own rules and put those other racks in the non typical category. If they won't do that then they need to let the king buck reign supreme as the new world record typical.

Not choosing either of those options would be shameful.

[Spysar]

Jay, do you think B&C is influenced by the fact that you bought the buck to profit from it?

[jay f.]

Deerslayer common base points are typical points if they have the figure 8 or what they call a peanut shape. The King is typical and can be scored either way, as common base or stand alone points. This was determined by many B&C scorers that have held and studied the antlers. What you do is score the way the deer gets the most credit. I can't say B&C is doing this because i purchased the antlers because they ruled on it before I ever knew Mr. King. I got involved a couple months into it when I met Johnny King at a deer show and I saw the antlers in person and Johnny told me what they did. I knew the second i saw the antlers they where typical. I just think B&C doesn't like that short point and this deer doesn't have the "LOOK" they want. Like I told Jack R at B&C long ago these antlers where grown in nature and not built in a manufacturing setting, nothing in nature is perfect. He has no answer for what he did to this deer.

[Spysar]

Did you buy them hoping you could get B&C to reverse their decision? Be honest. And did you buy them hoping for a big pay day? Please be honest.

[Dhurtubise]

Did you buy them hoping you could get B&C to reverse their decision? Be honest. And did you buy them hoping for a big pay day? Please be honest.

Spysar, I really think this is irrelevant. Either the antlers are typical or they are not. An owners intention should not come into question to determine the score of his set. That is, I think, why this whole story has so much steam. It is corruption if a grader can arbitrarily change his score based on his perception of the person or his judgement of the persons morals.

Just as an example, if a teacher marks you down on an essay or worst a math test because he doesn't like you all that much, that is serious cause for intervention. Or another similar example of corruption is not passing your drivers test, not based on the score of your written test, or your driving test , but rather if the tester thinks you'll be a little reckless based on his perception of your personality.

Anyone would feel violated in those situations, so this is what Fish 'r King is faced with.

[ Post made via iPhone ]

[jay f.]

Spysar I have always been honest about this deer and have nothing to hide. Believe me i could have sold these antlers many times for way more than I paid for them. I could have taken that money and bought and sold many more sets and made more money. I did not buy them to lose money, but my sole reason had "nothing " to do with money. Over 85% of the world class deer have been sold for many different reasons by the hunters. The scoring system is what it is no matter who owns them. If it wasn't for antler collectors there wouldn't be a record book. Like B&C's letter to Bass Pro stated, if it wasn't for antler collectors most of these deer would be hanging on the side of barns and thrown in a tool sheds and never seen by others.

[jay f.]

Dhurtubise you are 100% correct. It doesn't make the antlers grow any different and rules change because of who owns them and has no part in scoring them. B&C let the antler buyer from Cabelas get certified as a scorer. B&C makes more money on antlers, horns and skulls than anyone.