I have decided to do a trail cam scent experiment next year

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Re: I have decided to do a trail cam scent experiment next y

Unread postby dan » Mon Jan 27, 2014 10:40 pm

What would be a realalistic test would be to have a camera in a spot and walk past it once a week wearing carbon clothes tucked and rubber boots sprayed and washed, sprayed down with scent killer every other week, and the other week walk by with tennis shoes on and just your regular clothes. Walk the same path, and do the same thing. Monitor the results.


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Re: I have decided to do a trail cam scent experiment next y

Unread postby Southern Man » Tue Jan 28, 2014 1:21 am

Why only 1 hair? I would put the same amount of hair both times. Once with the hair soaked in scent eliminator and the next just plain hair.

Also, 2 different locations could give different results just by being different locations. Wouldn't it make more sense to bait a spot and hang a camera. Wait a period of time and then add hair soaked in scent eliminator. Wait a period of time and then add just plain hair. Note the differences on the deer coming to the attractant.

I could do this too. I have a spot loaded with deer that could easily provide numbers of test deer. Not a great supply of monster/mature/trophy bucks but lots of does that would be more than willing to come to bait, especially this time of year.

Question is, how long to wait between test cycles?
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Re: I have decided to do a trail cam scent experiment next y

Unread postby Southern Man » Tue Jan 28, 2014 1:26 am

Ahhh just read the other thread. I guess the point of the experiment is to see the difference of a small amount of scent compared to a large amount. I didn't realize that.

Either way it would be interesting. I would almost bet 1 hair wouldn't make a difference in my area. But, I have assumed before and got bit.
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Re: I have decided to do a trail cam scent experiment next y

Unread postby Stanley » Tue Jan 28, 2014 4:29 am

dan wrote:What would be a realalistic test would be to have a camera in a spot and walk past it once a week wearing carbon clothes tucked and rubber boots sprayed and washed, sprayed down with scent killer every other week, and the other week walk by with tennis shoes on and just your regular clothes. Walk the same path, and do the same thing. Monitor the results.


I would do something like that but the place I have in mind to do this testing is not close to home. I have thought about doing something similar but the distance is a deterrent. If I do the test at home I might try something like that.

I did do a test 30 years ago quite similar. One with dirty boots and one with clean boots. I wore sorrel packs that were stored on stinky boat carpeting. I would walk straight to the tree and climb up. I set up in a bottle neck so I was pretty sure of deer traffic. Every deer that got to that ground scent was alerted. Most would stop and go back from the direction they came from.

My next testing was done with clean Tinglys and a long walk to the stand site to scour the boots. Same thing straight to the tree. Almost every deer went through unalarmed. Mostly bucks as this was a bottle neck between doe bedding areas and the food source wasn't in line with the bottle neck. I did both of these tests many times it was no fluke.

I am positive a trained hound could have tracked me with either boots. The thing is I did this under real hunting conditions with a real hunter. Not a set up with trained hounds with noses to the ground. This is why I went to my boot system. I have heard many guys say it can't be done, they get busted every time. I posted time stamped pictures of it happening. So those that say it can't happen are incorrect.

I also want to point out for the younger guys benefit. If you do have to walk to your stand and leave a ground scent trail where a buck might cross it. Do it in a straight line to your stand so that if a buck does come by you will have an opportunity to kill him before he reaches your ground scent. I think I have read Dan mentioning this before.
You can fool some of the bucks, all of the time, and fool all of the bucks, some of the time, however you certainly can't fool all of the bucks, all of the time.
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Re: I have decided to do a trail cam scent experiment next y

Unread postby lostinstateforest » Tue Jan 28, 2014 4:53 am

This is why I went to my boot system



Whats your boot system?

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Re: I have decided to do a trail cam scent experiment next y

Unread postby dan » Tue Jan 28, 2014 5:16 am

I really believe that tests done to extremes may have some bias. Such as a 5 gallon bucket of sweat vs 3 drops. Is that realistic in a hunting situation? And, when testing with deer, there are way to many variables like a certain deers attitude, and exactly where the scent is placed, does that particular deer have a problem with that scent in that exact location?
Thats why I think a proper test should be done with hounds with realistic differences. The difference between leather boots and blue jeans is hardly anything. The difference of a 5 gallon bucket of sweat vs 3 drops is like having 5 million people stand up wind vs one... Its not realistic... And, the truth of the matter is, all of the realistic testing has already been done. There has been about 5 independent ( no scent manufacture bias ) dog scent tests done dirty guy vs clean guy with rubber boots vs head to toe scent removal... In every single test the results verified the same thing. All 5 of the tests I seen conducted the dog found the scent free guy fastest.

We can keep replicating the tests until we find some extreme way to get a different result, but what will that prove?

The tests have all ready been done... But if people are unwilling to accept the results or even watch the tests, your not going to convince them with anything.
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Re: I have decided to do a trail cam scent experiment next y

Unread postby Stanley » Tue Jan 28, 2014 5:42 am

dan wrote:I really believe that tests done to extremes may have some bias. Such as a 5 gallon bucket of sweat vs 3 drops. Is that realistic in a hunting situation? And, when testing with deer, there are way to many variables like a certain deers attitude, and exactly where the scent is placed, does that particular deer have a problem with that scent in that exact location?
Thats why I think a proper test should be done with hounds with realistic differences. The difference between leather boots and blue jeans is hardly anything. The difference of a 5 gallon bucket of sweat vs 3 drops is like having 5 million people stand up wind vs one... Its not realistic... And, the truth of the matter is, all of the realistic testing has already been done. There has been about 5 independent ( no scent manufacture bias ) dog scent tests done dirty guy vs clean guy with rubber boots vs head to toe scent removal... In every single test the results verified the same thing. All 5 of the tests I seen conducted the dog found the scent free guy fastest.

We can keep replicating the tests until we find some extreme way to get a different result, but what will that prove?

The tests have all ready been done... But if people are unwilling to accept the results or even watch the tests, your not going to convince them with anything.


I guess we have a different view on realistic. How would trained hounds being used with noses to the ground be compared to a deer traveling an area unalarmed not trained to look for scent? I mean we don't use deer to look for lost people because we can't train them to do so.

I just saw on the news last night a local girl has been missing for a month. They brought in dogs to search for her. They had to quit because the weather got too cold for the dogs to work right. They are going to go back out when the weather breaks a little. So even dogs have limits and that is what everyone seams to not understand "limits". That was on the local news last night. Here is some of the story interesting for sure. The dogs are prepared to look for dead people. Just like you prepare a dog to look for antlers they just don't do it.
http://wqad.com/2014/01/22/search-dogs- ... rie-olson/

I did watch the Mith busters and found it fascinating how well trained those dogs can be to find and look for scent. That said deer are not trained to do the same thing. That is why using dogs for comparison is unrealistic. I trust my own testing over anything I see on TY or read in magazines.

The testing I did 30 years ago was not Hollywood but just blue collar hunting. No trained hounds just deer in a natural habitat. You have to remember an untrained dog would never find the hidden coke covered with coffee. A trained dog will.
You can fool some of the bucks, all of the time, and fool all of the bucks, some of the time, however you certainly can't fool all of the bucks, all of the time.
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Re: I have decided to do a trail cam scent experiment next y

Unread postby Stanley » Tue Jan 28, 2014 5:44 am

lostinstateforest wrote:This is why I went to my boot system



Whats your boot system?

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17 inch Tingly's with pants tucked in. I wear tennis shoes inside with wool socks. When it gets colder I use toe warmers.

This is a link to my boots & bucks pictures.
viewtopic.php?f=3&t=22729&p=287256#p287256
You can fool some of the bucks, all of the time, and fool all of the bucks, some of the time, however you certainly can't fool all of the bucks, all of the time.
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Re: I have decided to do a trail cam scent experiment next y

Unread postby dreaming bucks » Tue Jan 28, 2014 5:55 am

I actually do believe deer in a way were trained to smell humans, by their Moms since birth..... So, in a way, they are like the dogs trained, they are constantly on the look out for human intrusion, whether it be visual, or by scent.
Last edited by dreaming bucks on Tue Jan 28, 2014 6:32 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: I have decided to do a trail cam scent experiment next y

Unread postby Stanley » Tue Jan 28, 2014 6:06 am

dreaming bucks wrote:I actually do believe deer in a way were trained to smell humans, but their Moms since birth..... So, in a way, they are like the dogs trained, they are constantly on the look out for human intrusion, whether it be visual, or by scent.

I would agree but that is just too big of a stretch. ;) :lol: The hounds have a human handler.
You can fool some of the bucks, all of the time, and fool all of the bucks, some of the time, however you certainly can't fool all of the bucks, all of the time.
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Re: I have decided to do a trail cam scent experiment next y

Unread postby lostinstateforest » Tue Jan 28, 2014 6:21 am

Stanley wrote:
lostinstateforest wrote:This is why I went to my boot system



Whats your boot system?

[ Post made via Android ] Image


17 inch Tingly's with pants tucked in. I wear tennis shoes inside with wool socks. When it gets colder I use toe warmers.



Do you feel this is superior to any standard rubber hunting boot sold? If so why and is there another thread regarding this?? Sorry to derail.

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Re: I have decided to do a trail cam scent experiment next y

Unread postby Stanley » Tue Jan 28, 2014 6:37 am

lostinstateforest wrote:
Stanley wrote:
lostinstateforest wrote:This is why I went to my boot system



Whats your boot system?

[ Post made via Android ] Image


17 inch Tingly's with pants tucked in. I wear tennis shoes inside with wool socks. When it gets colder I use toe warmers.



Do you feel this is superior to any standard rubber hunting boot sold? If so why and is there another thread regarding this?? Sorry to derail.

[ Post made via Android ] Image

I think the no cleats on the bottom makes a difference in the amount of scent the boot will hold.
You can fool some of the bucks, all of the time, and fool all of the bucks, some of the time, however you certainly can't fool all of the bucks, all of the time.
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Re: I have decided to do a trail cam scent experiment next y

Unread postby Southern Man » Tue Jan 28, 2014 6:53 am

Stanley wrote:
dreaming bucks wrote:I actually do believe deer in a way were trained to smell humans, but their Moms since birth..... So, in a way, they are like the dogs trained, they are constantly on the look out for human intrusion, whether it be visual, or by scent.

I would agree but that is just too big of a stretch. ;) :lol: The hounds have a human handler.


I kind of agree with Dreaming Bucks to a point. I don't think they are trained to "look" for human scent, but when they cross it, it triggers a response and that response depends on their experience with humans has been.

Anyone remember Pavlov's dog?
http://psychology.about.com/od/classica ... s-dogs.htm
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Re: I have decided to do a trail cam scent experiment next y

Unread postby Stanley » Tue Jan 28, 2014 7:01 am

Southern Man wrote:
Stanley wrote:
dreaming bucks wrote:I actually do believe deer in a way were trained to smell humans, but their Moms since birth..... So, in a way, they are like the dogs trained, they are constantly on the look out for human intrusion, whether it be visual, or by scent.

I would agree but that is just too big of a stretch. ;) :lol: The hounds have a human handler.


I kind of agree with Dreaming Bucks to a point. I don't think they are trained to "look" for human scent, but when they cross it, it triggers a response and that response depends on their experience with humans has been.

Anyone remember Pavlov's dog?
http://psychology.about.com/od/classica ... s-dogs.htm

I'll go along with that 100%
You can fool some of the bucks, all of the time, and fool all of the bucks, some of the time, however you certainly can't fool all of the bucks, all of the time.
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Re: I have decided to do a trail cam scent experiment next y

Unread postby JoeRE » Tue Jan 28, 2014 9:45 am

Very interesting idea. You have me thinking about similar experiments now. Curious to hear what happens!


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