I have not seen a study suggesting that lowering the population can in fact increase the spread. Would you mind providing a link, I would love to read it just for my own education. The studies that I have seen say that the biggest threat to spread is highly saturated deer densities.
Been looking for it... I am having a hard time locating it. If I remember correctly, it was a lady researcher working for U.W. on a grant from the WDNR to show that reducing the population would reduce the spread of CWD... I was alerted to the study when it made the news that the DNR was so upset that the study did not find what they wanted, they stopped all her funding.
In other words, when they are doing research, they had better find the results they are paid to find or else they will loose all funding. This was the Doyle years, and as we know, Doyle was excepting large cash amounts labeled "campaign money" from a collaboration group of auto insurance companies... The same group that now employs him... And, the CWD map is just about a mirror image of the insurance groups "to many car deer accidents" map...
Dan I agree with you that it is here to stay. But, in the same respect I think just saying heck with it and not trying to do anything about it is the wrong approach.
And what would you suggest? killing most of the deer spreads the disease border faster, killing none of the deer don't help, killing lots of the deer don't help... What would you recommend we do? Its here forever no matter what you decide. So really, your answer is irrelevant. The only thing they could do is find ways to terminate the prions that is environmentally friendly. And that, don't look to likely.
Dan the whole Rep. Gerry Geis thing was a total misunderstanding on his part. I think that it was one heck of an allegation that had no proof whatsoever behind it. I think that UW Madison is a very trustworthy source and would put more stock into what they had to say about the situation than any Representative.
I guess I agree that its irrelevant where it came from. Its here, and thats what can't be changed.
I think the best hope is they can slow down the spread to other parts of the state. Who know what scientific breakthroughs will come about in the future.
1st off, I don't think it will ever be up north the way it is around here. It does not spread well in sandy soils. Some research shows that the disease map is very similar to the soil map. The disease is mainly where there is a clay based soil. 2ndly. its most likely already there... I remember early testing that found some cwd cases thought Wisconsin but then real quick it was recanted and we were told it was a false reading... I remember a deer a guy shot back in the 90's in oconomowoc that just laid there foaming at the mouth and let him walk up and arrow it. When the skull cap was cut off the brains were mush... Pretty sure that was CWD and that area is not in the CWD area.
About the culling of deer in CWD areas. I think that in the CWD zone, the best that can be accomplished is that they can stabilize the infection rate at a lower level. As of right now it is increasing every year. There was some research just completed comparing the approaches of Illinois vs. Wisconsin. Illinois has managed to keep their overall infection rate at or near 1% and Wisconsin's has climbed to nearly 5%. I'll try to find it again if I can and provide a link.
Really, so a disease that leaches into the soil and stays there forever will never increase in transition over time if we keep the population at 5 deer per square mile? I don't buy that. At best your buying a little time. And not much of that either... In Colorado where the disease has been there almost 1/2 a century, the percent of infection has really never changed much at all despite deer numbers. In 50 years its still at about 10% at its highest ever area.
An example of culling working is when you have a new positive pop up in a new area. Minnesota had that CWD positive back several years ago. Their DNR went in and worked with landowners to cull deer in the immediate area and it worked, because they haven't had a another positive since. The same thing happened in the state of New York around 2005. They culled a lot of deer in the surrounding areas of the positives and they have not had any more positives either. The Kroll report even recommends that the DNR jump on new positives right away and keep them from building.
A little late for that here... And as far as Kroll, I like the guy, but hius opinion was a lot different before he got hired by Wisconsin. He was on a TV show called Texas trophy hunters slamming Wisconsin for its poor handling of the CWD disease for many of the reason I have given here... You can probably find that show on line somewhere.
About the showing up mysteriously stuff. I don't have all the answers, but I do see your point about the deer industry selling urine all over the country. I think that there is some strong correlations suggesting that that industry may be helping to facilitate the movement. The USGS website has a map showing known CWD positive farms and areas with known wild CWD positives. One can make that connection for themselves.
Agreed... But my point was thats a better way to fight spread than what they are doing here.. Its already here, and its here to stay. Managing the whitetails the way they should be managed instead as a disrespectful slaughter would be a better plan. They could stop the sale of urine, they could double fence deer farms, but that really don't seem to be the true agenda, does it?
The DNR has this new mapping application that shows all the sections that have had positives in the past. A friend of mine just showed it to me. If you click on the sections, it will show you how many deer have been tested and how many have came back positive. The areas near the original discoveries have the most positives and they tend to decrease as you go out from there.
Agreed... but its irrelevant. NOTHING YOU CAN DO SHORT OF KILLING EVERY SINGLE DEER WILL EVER STOP THIS DISEASE FROM SPREADING. And, if we kill all the deer, we can never ever bring them back cause the disease is in the soil.
I think the reason that some people don't see any sick deer is because the clinical signs (emaciation, drooling, etc.) don't start happening until shortly before they die. They can look perfectly healthy up until that point.
I agree with that... More likely to find them dead than see them sick and know what your seeing.
About out west. I will try to find something I read quite a while ago about their being herd reductions in some of the core CWD areas out their from the disease. The one in question was a Mule Deer population near Boulder Colorado. The biologist noted quite a bit of reduction in the herd, something like 25%. I believe that it was an unhunted population in the suburbs. Hopefully I can find it.
Out west, a lot of the leading scientists are saying culling didn't and don't work. Only total removal would stop the spread.
I respect each and every one of your opinions on the matter, but this is mine. I don't want to offend anyone or cause Ill feelings. I really love this site and appreciate Dan and everyone else's willingness to share hunting tactics freely. I think that maybe we should just not beat any dead horses and just let it be. We can agree to disagree on the matter.
Now you say this after I have typed for 20 minutes.
I respect your opinion. There is no way every body is going to agree on everything. Just in closing, I want to say that at the time CWD came into play Doyle was in charge of the WDNR. He hired lawyers and friends ( campaign donors ) to run the WDNR. Those guys with no background in wildlife management or Biology were the driving force on the CWD eradication rules that we had then, and still have now. I was in touch with a few DNR friends and they told me many of the wildlife educated guys tried to speak up and were threatened to be fired. They even sent a letter that was forwarded to me at the time reading confidential to WDNR employees, and said they would be fired if they expressed any views to anyone other than the views of the department.
Soooo... They stop funding to research people whom have differing opinions and fire wildlife experts who have would life opinions... I think its easy for me to say I trust what I am hearing from out west a lot more than from here.... No offense meant to any one. But, I don't buy that they are changing anything by killing tons of deer... And its nice to see there is a plan in effect to stop it this coming season.