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BassBoysLLP
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Re: Recipe for Collapse...

Unread postby BassBoysLLP » Mon Jan 13, 2014 2:35 pm

headgear wrote:
iowa whitetail wrote:wolves wont stand a chance hear to many hunters and the land is to open for them to live i think.


Before we put the hurt on the wolves their home range was all of north America (including mexico). [glow=red]They would do just fine down there.[/glow]


Unfortunately, X2!


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Re: Recipe for Collapse...

Unread postby BassBoysLLP » Mon Jan 13, 2014 2:38 pm

dan wrote:
keb wrote:there is a reason most of the celebrities live and hunt in iowa, easier to grow and harvest big deer, if it was easier in Florida they would he there.

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Celebrities don't have to live in Iowa... As non-residents they get a free statewide tag every year called the Governors tag. Iowa gives out more than 500 of those free tags to people whom can certainly afford it, and would certainly buy it, every year any way... AND... If they also want to apply for a tag, it don't effect there Governor tag and if drawn they can take two deer, but would have to pay for one of the tags.

[glow=red]And while we are on the subject of Iowa, I find it interesting that farmers can't afford to have there family home to hunt each year... So there kids grow up on the 1500 acre farm then go off to school, get married and move to another state. Then they have to apply and wait three years and pay $600 bucks to hunt deer with there Dad on the family farm?[/glow]

And really, a person whom buys a large piece of property who hunts, should not be allowed to hunt his own property? Why not? No one else will be allowed.

By the way, what ruined Pike county Illinois was outfitters, not hunters buying up all the land.

If you think non-resident hunters are Greedy, I say it might be Iowa thats greedy at the price they charge for deer tags. You get the worst type of hunters when you price out average Joes and family coming home to hunt.

I can pretty much guarantee the upset residents would fight tooth and nail if they were told due to wanting to continue to grow big bucks Iowa residents are only allowed one buck every 3 years. ;)

Don't take my post wrong, it should be up to Iowa to make there own rules... I can hunt or buy somewhere else.


Good post. This part makes my blood boil and is the #1 reason why I don't mind WI being unrestricted.
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Re: Recipe for Collapse...

Unread postby dan » Tue Jan 14, 2014 12:22 am

Iowa would not be what it is if we sold tags to everyone for cheap.i dont think its greedy more like they have the most desired whitetail hunting in the states and people pay the money to come hunt. If it changed people would flood in hear destroy the deer herd in 5 years then they would be like all the other states that could be good. Its not just the tags they give out that makes it good hear we have no rifle seasons for bucks the rut is over for shotgun seasons. By doing that they have produced big bucks so then the res hunters have learned to let them grow and kill them while there mature. You take any of that away and iowa isnt what it is anymore.

How would tag costs all of the sudden flood the area with hunters? I think the amount of tags given out regulates this. If its the same number of tags, people being able to afford to hunt there would not be a factor in the numbers of deer harvested.
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Re: Recipe for Collapse...

Unread postby dan » Tue Jan 14, 2014 12:34 am

Also... If they charged $2000 for celeb governor tags they could use that money to reduce the cost of regular non-resident tags. Every celeb that wants to hunt Iowa would pay that.
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Re: Recipe for Collapse...

Unread postby JoeRE » Tue Jan 14, 2014 3:09 am

dan wrote:
Iowa would not be what it is if we sold tags to everyone for cheap.i dont think its greedy more like they have the most desired whitetail hunting in the states and people pay the money to come hunt. If it changed people would flood in hear destroy the deer herd in 5 years then they would be like all the other states that could be good. Its not just the tags they give out that makes it good hear we have no rifle seasons for bucks the rut is over for shotgun seasons. By doing that they have produced big bucks so then the res hunters have learned to let them grow and kill them while there mature. You take any of that away and iowa isnt what it is anymore.

How would tag costs all of the sudden flood the area with hunters? I think the amount of tags given out regulates this. If its the same number of tags, people being able to afford to hunt there would not be a factor in the numbers of deer harvested.


Dan I think IW meant that if we removed quotas AND dropped prices deer hunting would change, not just the price part. As you mention that effects management. If there were no quotas Iowa would quickly be no different than most states surrounding it, trophy hunting wise. It would be good - all states in the Midwest are good compared to some other parts of the US because we all have good genetics and nutrition, but it would be far different than it is now. The only difference between Iowa and surrounding states is a larger proportion of bucks reach that 3-5 y.o. age range.

Give me any single county right across the border from Iowa in WI, IL, MN, or Missouri and similarly limit hunting pressure - number of hunters and season dates....and I will give you back a county that produces the same caliber deer as any similar county terrain and soil-wise in Iowa.

I completely agree I don't like Governor's tags (The concept reminds me of "the King's deer" and that naturally rubs me the wrong way). I also think the price of non-res tags is higher than it needs to be - $700+ when you factor in how many preference points most people need which no two ways about it is excessive. At the same time I fully support the quotas here, that's a big part of why deer hunting is so good here and I of course want to keep it that way. People that complain about their hunting in this state should ship off to any nearby state for a full season and they will shut up quick. Sure we have EHD and all that but other states have similar problems. I love hunting in Wisconsin but its more challenging to tag a mature buck there no doubt about it, there's plain and simple not as many of them per mile of cover!!
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Re: Recipe for Collapse...

Unread postby Stanley » Tue Jan 14, 2014 5:31 am

JoeRE wrote:
dan wrote:
Iowa would not be what it is if we sold tags to everyone for cheap.i dont think its greedy more like they have the most desired whitetail hunting in the states and people pay the money to come hunt. If it changed people would flood in hear destroy the deer herd in 5 years then they would be like all the other states that could be good. Its not just the tags they give out that makes it good hear we have no rifle seasons for bucks the rut is over for shotgun seasons. By doing that they have produced big bucks so then the res hunters have learned to let them grow and kill them while there mature. You take any of that away and iowa isnt what it is anymore.

How would tag costs all of the sudden flood the area with hunters? I think the amount of tags given out regulates this. If its the same number of tags, people being able to afford to hunt there would not be a factor in the numbers of deer harvested.


Dan I think IW meant that if we removed quotas AND dropped prices deer hunting would change, not just the price part. As you mention that effects management. If there were no quotas Iowa would quickly be no different than most states surrounding it, trophy hunting wise. It would be good - all states in the Midwest are good compared to some other parts of the US because we all have good genetics and nutrition, but it would be far different than it is now. The only difference between Iowa and surrounding states is a larger proportion of bucks reach that 3-5 y.o. age range.

Give me any single county right across the border from Iowa in WI, IL, MN, or Missouri and similarly limit hunting pressure - number of hunters and season dates....and I will give you back a county that produces the same caliber deer as any similar county terrain and soil-wise in Iowa.

I completely agree I don't like Governor's tags (The concept reminds me of "the King's deer" and that naturally rubs me the wrong way). I also think the price of non-res tags is higher than it needs to be - $700+ when you factor in how many preference points most people need which no two ways about it is excessive. At the same time I fully support the quotas here, that's a big part of why deer hunting is so good here and I of course want to keep it that way. People that complain about their hunting in this state should ship off to any nearby state for a full season and they will shut up quick. Sure we have EHD and all that but other states have similar problems. I love hunting in Wisconsin but its more challenging to tag a mature buck there no doubt about it, there's plain and simple not as many of them per mile of cover!!


This was also my interpretation. I also think the NR tags are too high, but then again people are waiting in line to get them? It must also be noted that Iowa is doing a pretty good job of managing the deer herd compared to other states. Iowa has limited habitat for deer and yet Iowa still has good hunting. I don't have a problem with people complaining about the downward deer hunting quality in Iowa. I do not want to see it revert back like it was 40 years ago. If you don't talk about it no one can listen.
You can fool some of the bucks, all of the time, and fool all of the bucks, some of the time, however you certainly can't fool all of the bucks, all of the time.
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Re: Recipe for Collapse...

Unread postby bonemonger » Tue Jan 14, 2014 12:14 pm

its funny how some people read something and the only response is to attack the messenger. what Bill was trying to say is they killed to many does, but the biggest problem to killing mature bucks was the amount of trophy hunters that have sprung up in the last 8 to 10 years that are killing off the 3 year bucks that have great potential. I think that some off the good 3 year old bucks are over 160inches and they would be hard for most hunters to pass. if those bucks are taken out at 3 its hard to have the truly monster bucks that he wants to hunt. its almost impossible to keep those bucks on the farm and he is seeing the effects of the new tv age driven big buck craze.
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Re: Recipe for Collapse...

Unread postby keb » Tue Jan 14, 2014 12:34 pm

I don't think anyone was attacking him, if you gonna print something for the world to see be prepared for both positive and negative criticism.

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Re: Recipe for Collapse...

Unread postby Bucky » Tue Jan 14, 2014 12:48 pm

bonemonger wrote:its funny how some people read something and the only response is to attack the messenger. what Bill was trying to say is they killed to many does, but the biggest problem to killing mature bucks was the amount of trophy hunters that have sprung up in the last 8 to 10 years that are killing off the 3 year bucks that have great potential. I think that some off the good 3 year old bucks are over 160inches and they would be hard for most hunters to pass. if those bucks are taken out at 3 its hard to have the truly monster bucks that he wants to hunt. its almost impossible to keep those bucks on the farm and he is seeing the effects of the new tv age driven big buck craze.


I agree that is his point... I wasn't attacking him, but it is hard for me to feel bad for him. :lol:

1000 acres plus his surrounding properties (that are piggy back managing off his) are more than enough to keep some deer protected to maturity. So he is just gonna have "fewer" mature bucks to hunt
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Re: Recipe for Collapse...

Unread postby bonemonger » Tue Jan 14, 2014 1:04 pm

i have always wondered what percentage of button bucks born each year have the potential to break the 150 inch mark. I would have to think the number might be 4 or 5 out of 30 button bucks born each year. the probability of those bucks making it to 4 or 5years old have to be small. so even on great property like Bills you would be lucky to have one of those bucks reach maturity. that in its self is what makes killing mature bucks difficult on managed private land or public land, the laws of probability of a buck reaching that level is slim. as much as I like deer hunting I don't think I would mortgage my life for a 1000 acres unless there was some money making potential other than just to shoot deer.
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Re: Recipe for Collapse...

Unread postby binney59 » Wed Jan 15, 2014 11:21 am

bonemonger wrote:i have always wondered what percentage of button bucks born each year have the potential to break the 150 inch mark. I would have to think the number might be 4 or 5 out of 30 button bucks born each year. the probability of those bucks making it to 4 or 5years old have to be small. so even on great property like Bills you would be lucky to have one of those bucks reach maturity. that in its self is what makes killing mature bucks difficult on managed private land or public land, the laws of probability of a buck reaching that level is slim. as much as I like deer hunting [glow=red]I don't think I would mortgage my life for a 1000 acres unless there was some money making potential other than just to shoot deer.[/glow]


I agree but I am fairly confident that he could sell his land now for more than what he paid for it, plus in the mean time he has presumably profited from his show as well. That may be an obvious point but he very well could end up with a better return on his investment having it tied up in land vs the average 401K.
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Re: Recipe for Collapse...

Unread postby iowa whitetail » Wed Jan 15, 2014 11:27 am

binney59 wrote:
bonemonger wrote:i have always wondered what percentage of button bucks born each year have the potential to break the 150 inch mark. I would have to think the number might be 4 or 5 out of 30 button bucks born each year. the probability of those bucks making it to 4 or 5years old have to be small. so even on great property like Bills you would be lucky to have one of those bucks reach maturity. that in its self is what makes killing mature bucks difficult on managed private land or public land, the laws of probability of a buck reaching that level is slim. as much as I like deer hunting [glow=red]I don't think I would mortgage my life for a 1000 acres unless there was some money making potential other than just to shoot deer.[/glow]


I agree but I am fairly confident that he could sell his land now for more than what he paid for it, plus in the mean time he has presumably profited from his show as well. That may be an obvious point but he very well could end up with a better return on his investment having it tied up in land vs the average 401K.

x2 its never a bad investment no madder what you buy it for
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Re: Recipe for Collapse...

Unread postby dan » Wed Jan 15, 2014 1:25 pm

iowa whitetail wrote:
binney59 wrote:
bonemonger wrote:i have always wondered what percentage of button bucks born each year have the potential to break the 150 inch mark. I would have to think the number might be 4 or 5 out of 30 button bucks born each year. the probability of those bucks making it to 4 or 5years old have to be small. so even on great property like Bills you would be lucky to have one of those bucks reach maturity. that in its self is what makes killing mature bucks difficult on managed private land or public land, the laws of probability of a buck reaching that level is slim. as much as I like deer hunting [glow=red]I don't think I would mortgage my life for a 1000 acres unless there was some money making potential other than just to shoot deer.[/glow]


I agree but I am fairly confident that he could sell his land now for more than what he paid for it, plus in the mean time he has presumably profited from his show as well. That may be an obvious point but he very well could end up with a better return on his investment having it tied up in land vs the average 401K.

x2 its never a bad investment no matter what you buy it for
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Re: Recipe for Collapse...

Unread postby BassBoysLLP » Thu Jan 16, 2014 2:15 am

binney59 wrote:
bonemonger wrote:i have always wondered what percentage of button bucks born each year have the potential to break the 150 inch mark. I would have to think the number might be 4 or 5 out of 30 button bucks born each year. the probability of those bucks making it to 4 or 5years old have to be small. so even on great property like Bills you would be lucky to have one of those bucks reach maturity. that in its self is what makes killing mature bucks difficult on managed private land or public land, the laws of probability of a buck reaching that level is slim. as much as I like deer hunting [glow=red]I don't think I would mortgage my life for a 1000 acres unless there was some money making potential other than just to shoot deer.[/glow]


I agree but I am fairly confident that he could sell his land now for more than what he paid for it, plus in the mean time he has presumably profited from his show as well. That may be an obvious point but he very well could end up with a [glow=red]better return on his investment having it tied up in land vs the average 401K.[/glow]


Possible but doubtful unless he finds a sweet deal. If we are talking investments, I would max out a 401K first.
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Re: Recipe for Collapse...

Unread postby Stanley » Thu Jan 16, 2014 3:35 am

BassBoysLLP wrote:
binney59 wrote:
bonemonger wrote:i have always wondered what percentage of button bucks born each year have the potential to break the 150 inch mark. I would have to think the number might be 4 or 5 out of 30 button bucks born each year. the probability of those bucks making it to 4 or 5years old have to be small. so even on great property like Bills you would be lucky to have one of those bucks reach maturity. that in its self is what makes killing mature bucks difficult on managed private land or public land, the laws of probability of a buck reaching that level is slim. as much as I like deer hunting [glow=red]I don't think I would mortgage my life for a 1000 acres unless there was some money making potential other than just to shoot deer.[/glow]


I agree but I am fairly confident that he could sell his land now for more than what he paid for it, plus in the mean time he has presumably profited from his show as well. That may be an obvious point but he very well could end up with a [glow=red]better return on his investment having it tied up in land vs the average 401K.[/glow]


Possible but doubtful unless he finds a sweet deal. If we are talking investments, I would max out a 401K first.



If you invested money in the stock market 15 years ago your money hasn't grown much if at all. If you invested in land your money has at minimum tripled. The last few years the stock market has been good. That can change in a few short months. When the market falls your leverage goes way down. When land prices go down your leverage stays the same.
You can fool some of the bucks, all of the time, and fool all of the bucks, some of the time, however you certainly can't fool all of the bucks, all of the time.


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