Is a rub more than just a rub?

[dan]

In any deer density rubs appear where the buck is starting from (bed) and going to food/water source. The buck isn't going out of his way to make rubs. The rubs are made where the buck is on its feet. When the food/water source changes the rub placement changes. That is why we see rubs all over the place not just concentrated in one area. When the rut kicks in the rubs really start to show up because the bucks are cruising all over looking for the does. If the food source remains the same for extended periods of time you will see more rubs show up from bed to that food source. We must also take into consideration the bed changes and so will the rub placement. This also contributes to random rub sightings.

If I am set up on an ambush spot between bed and food, rubs will be made and very well could be by the stand site. If I am set up in the wrong spot and the buck doesn't pass by the stand site he isn't going to go over where I am at and make a rub to mark the spot. If you are having rubs made by your stand site you are doing something right. You are in the correct path the buck uses to get from point A to point B. I can see why it would appear the buck has you patterned but in reality you are setting up in the right place. This holds especially true pre rut. Interesting discussion.

I would agree that all bucks make rubs... However, I think they make less rubs in low densities with low competition... For example, where I am at if you go back to about the year 2000 we had high density on the public and a high number of mature bucks. Almost all the beds were rub marked, certainly all primary bedding areas were... Now that our population is low, I have several primary bedding areas that have no rubs at all despite seeing mature bucks bed there several times a year.
And getting back to your point about bucks could do a random rub anywhere along there trail regardless of whether or not there was ever one there before... Agreed, but, its gets a little suspicious when a spot has never had a rub till the day after you hunt there the 1st time, and then your next set up on that buck never has a rub there till the day after you sit there for the 1st time etc... It gets a little to coincidental. Then combine that with that the rubs are not on the deer trail, there at the base of your tree...

[dan]

hmmmmm....

a buck not being able to reason... a buck having to have an eidetic memory to have a rub represent an area of danger...
the point appears to have been missed by a wide margin, with strong tangents in multiple directions...

oh boy. Bucks don't have to have eidetic memories to give a wide berth to the tree that had a hunter in it that gave the buck a scare, despite the thousands they walk past. The rub made in relation to human activity and scent, just like the tree a hunter was busted in, are part of landscape that triggers the memory of the buck, so to speak. The rub standing out in a visual landscape, the scent of the hunter, the smell of the area in question... on and on... are but miniscule parts that trigger memory in deer and other large mammals.

Good point Scott... I know they remember where they make scrapes and come back to check them... I just think that if they run into danger in a spot that they remember that spot regardless of the rub, and that the rub is more a message for us, or maybe a territory marker reaction to us being in there area.

[Spysar]

As far as a buck rubbing or scraping at your ambush spot, I know I had been back to a spot only to find a rub or scrape right there. Whether or not he is doing it cause he found my spot I don't know. I do know this, and its along the same lines, when a coyote finds your trap, he will often take a crap on it.

And as far as rubs, there are all kinds. The one use rubs don't say much other than a buck has been here sometime.

It's the rubs that are used multiple times, by multiple bucks that are interesting to me. They definatly use rubs to spread scent from their foreheads and eyes.

[Tadmdad]

Agreed interesting discussion, with many tangents, many things we believe, but really don't know or understand.

Couple of thoughts for discussion: We have all said, if you beat a bucks nose, you beat the buck. But does a buck use his sense of smell for a warning of danger? Sure, but also for communication to other deer. If we look at a whitetails glands, and think about communication between deer using their sense of smell.



As we look at a buck rub, think about the 3 glands in the facial area, nasal, orbital, forehead. If you watch closely when a buck makes a rub, he doesn't just rub his antlers, also his forehead and the sides of his face, using his glands to mark the rub. He will also, smell the rub several times through the process, believe this is the way he marks his individual scent, his calling card if you will, to other deer in the area.
Maybe this is his way to mark his territory, dominance, presence, communicating to other deer, we can only speculate. Maybe this is why when they detect our human presence, the will make a rub near the stand site. Warning to a intruder? Showing dominance? Danger? Curiosity? Or some other reason? Certainly is a reason for this behavior, nothing is random.

Agree with many of the points made about rubs, different rubs communicate different things about a buck habits and travel patterns.

Point that was made about dogs. Years ago had a bird dog (German Shorthair), he would smell and lick buck rubs, pee in scrapes, and when he found a deer bed, would role around in the bed. Don't know if he understood the deer communication, or if he thought he was a deer. But he was the best scouting tool I ever had.

[Stanley]

hmmmmm....

a buck not being able to reason... a buck having to have an eidetic memory to have a rub represent an area of danger...
the point appears to have been missed by a wide margin, with strong tangents in multiple directions...

oh boy. Bucks don't have to have eidetic memories to give a wide berth to the tree that had a hunter in it that gave the buck a scare, despite the thousands they walk past. The rub made in relation to human activity and scent, just like the tree a hunter was busted in, are part of landscape that triggers the memory of the buck, so to speak. The rub standing out in a visual landscape, the scent of the hunter, the smell of the area in question... on and on... are but miniscule parts that trigger memory in deer and other large mammals.

Good point Scott... I know they remember where they make scrapes and come back to check them... I just think that if they run into danger in a spot that they remember that spot regardless of the rub, and that the rub is more a message for us, or maybe a territory marker reaction to us being in there area.

Memory wouldn't be the only way of a buck finding a scrape. A scrape is a community urinal and stinks to high heaven. I can smell scrapes as I walk through the timber in the dark. I am sure a buck can smell them from way farther off. I have watched bucks cruising and catch wind of a scrape and work its way over to the scrape to add its own scent into the mix. I have seen multiple bucks work a scrape (same day) so I'm not sure if they know exactly who made the scrape. They do know it smells and they like to add to that smell.

[Stanley]

In any deer density rubs appear where the buck is starting from (bed) and going to food/water source. The buck isn't going out of his way to make rubs. The rubs are made where the buck is on its feet. When the food/water source changes the rub placement changes. That is why we see rubs all over the place not just concentrated in one area. When the rut kicks in the rubs really start to show up because the bucks are cruising all over looking for the does. If the food source remains the same for extended periods of time you will see more rubs show up from bed to that food source. We must also take into consideration the bed changes and so will the rub placement. This also contributes to random rub sightings.

If I am set up on an ambush spot between bed and food, rubs will be made and very well could be by the stand site. If I am set up in the wrong spot and the buck doesn't pass by the stand site he isn't going to go over where I am at and make a rub to mark the spot. If you are having rubs made by your stand site you are doing something right. You are in the correct path the buck uses to get from point A to point B. I can see why it would appear the buck has you patterned but in reality you are setting up in the right place. This holds especially true pre rut. Interesting discussion.

I would agree that all bucks make rubs... However, I think they make less rubs in low densities with low competition... For example, where I am at if you go back to about the year 2000 we had high density on the public and a high number of mature bucks. Almost all the beds were rub marked, certainly all primary bedding areas were... Now that our population is low, I have several primary bedding areas that have no rubs at all despite seeing mature bucks bed there several times a year.
And getting back to your point about bucks could do a random rub anywhere along there trail regardless of whether or not there was ever one there before... Agreed, but, its gets a little suspicious when a spot has never had a rub till the day after you hunt there the 1st time, and then your next set up on that buck never has a rub there till the day after you sit there for the 1st time etc... It gets a little to coincidental. Then combine that with that the rubs are not on the deer trail, there at the base of your tree...

100 % agree, less deer = less sign.

A few years ago I set up on a half bottle neck that was full of bucks sign. I could tell bucks were going through it by the number of rubs. I sat the stand and didn't see one buck go through. I did not hunt it again but kept an eye on the spot. It dried up like water in the desert. Was it my presence that caused it to dry up? Did the bucks have my number? I don't think so the bucks merely were going from point A to point B somewhere else. I checked this spot every year after and nothing. Checked it this year and nothing. A lot of buck sign is random and not all buck sign is worth hunting.

Another thing to remember a rub has a lot of buck scent around it. A buck doesn't have to have a visual sighting to find it. In fact I'm positive they smell rubs long before they see rubs. So if a buck can know a rub is there before he sees it why would he remember it was there before he smelled it?

This is what has me confused. Why would a buck put a rub for a visual aid when he could smell if the hunter was there from way safer out? What I'm asking, is if the buck busts you with his nose why would he put a rub by the tree for a visual aid? I have never seen this happen so I can't understand it. 90% of the times I'm busted its by a buck from farther out that 50 yards and it his nose that sees me not his eyes. So I find it fascinating the buck would come back and put a rub by the tree to further tell him a hunter was there? I also am sure a lot of times we are busted by a buck we don't even know it. This is an interesting topic for sure.

[Stanley]

Agreed interesting discussion, with many tangents, many things we believe, but really don't know or understand.

Couple of thoughts for discussion: We have all said, if you beat a bucks nose, you beat the buck. But does a buck use his sense of smell for a warning of danger? Sure, but also for communication to other deer. If we look at a whitetails glands, and think about communication between deer using their sense of smell.



As we look at a buck rub, think about the 3 glands in the facial area, nasal, orbital, forehead. If you watch closely when a buck makes a rub, he doesn't just rub his antlers, also his forehead and the sides of his face, using his glands to mark the rub. He will also, smell the rub several times through the process, believe this is the way he marks his individual scent, his calling card if you will, to other deer in the area.
Maybe this is his way to mark his territory, dominance, presence, communicating to other deer, we can only speculate. Maybe this is why when they detect our human presence, the will make a rub near the stand site. Warning to a intruder? Showing dominance? Danger? Curiosity? Or some other reason? Certainly is a reason for this behavior, nothing is random.

Agree with many of the points made about rubs, different rubs communicate different things about a buck habits and travel patterns.

Point that was made about dogs. Years ago had a bird dog (German Shorthair), he would smell and lick buck rubs, pee in scrapes, and when he found a deer bed, would role around in the bed. Don't know if he understood the deer communication, or if he thought he was a deer. But he was the best scouting tool I ever had.

Good post.
My neighbor has a beagle. The dog loves to roll in any kind of crap. They always tell me don't pet the dog. LOL

[dan]

hmmmmm....

a buck not being able to reason... a buck having to have an eidetic memory to have a rub represent an area of danger...
the point appears to have been missed by a wide margin, with strong tangents in multiple directions...

oh boy. Bucks don't have to have eidetic memories to give a wide berth to the tree that had a hunter in it that gave the buck a scare, despite the thousands they walk past. The rub made in relation to human activity and scent, just like the tree a hunter was busted in, are part of landscape that triggers the memory of the buck, so to speak. The rub standing out in a visual landscape, the scent of the hunter, the smell of the area in question... on and on... are but miniscule parts that trigger memory in deer and other large mammals.

Good point Scott... I know they remember where they make scrapes and come back to check them... I just think that if they run into danger in a spot that they remember that spot regardless of the rub, and that the rub is more a message for us, or maybe a territory marker reaction to us being in there area.

Memory wouldn't be the only way of a buck finding a scrape. A scrape is a community urinal and stinks to high heaven. I can smell scrapes as I walk through the timber in the dark. I am sure a buck can smell them from way farther off. I have watched bucks cruising and catch wind of a scrape and work its way over to the scrape to add its own scent into the mix. I have seen multiple bucks work a scrape (same day) so I'm not sure if they know exactly who made the scrape. They do know it smells and they like to add to that smell.

Are you implying that you think they can't remember making a scrape? Then how would they remember where there bed is? or a water hole?
I have watched bucks day after day come out of the same bed and walk strait to a scrape before moving on...

[dan]

In any deer density rubs appear where the buck is starting from (bed) and going to food/water source. The buck isn't going out of his way to make rubs. The rubs are made where the buck is on its feet. When the food/water source changes the rub placement changes. That is why we see rubs all over the place not just concentrated in one area. When the rut kicks in the rubs really start to show up because the bucks are cruising all over looking for the does. If the food source remains the same for extended periods of time you will see more rubs show up from bed to that food source. We must also take into consideration the bed changes and so will the rub placement. This also contributes to random rub sightings.

If I am set up on an ambush spot between bed and food, rubs will be made and very well could be by the stand site. If I am set up in the wrong spot and the buck doesn't pass by the stand site he isn't going to go over where I am at and make a rub to mark the spot. If you are having rubs made by your stand site you are doing something right. You are in the correct path the buck uses to get from point A to point B. I can see why it would appear the buck has you patterned but in reality you are setting up in the right place. This holds especially true pre rut. Interesting discussion.

I would agree that all bucks make rubs... However, I think they make less rubs in low densities with low competition... For example, where I am at if you go back to about the year 2000 we had high density on the public and a high number of mature bucks. Almost all the beds were rub marked, certainly all primary bedding areas were... Now that our population is low, I have several primary bedding areas that have no rubs at all despite seeing mature bucks bed there several times a year.
And getting back to your point about bucks could do a random rub anywhere along there trail regardless of whether or not there was ever one there before... Agreed, but, its gets a little suspicious when a spot has never had a rub till the day after you hunt there the 1st time, and then your next set up on that buck never has a rub there till the day after you sit there for the 1st time etc... It gets a little to coincidental. Then combine that with that the rubs are not on the deer trail, there at the base of your tree...

100 % agree, less deer = less sign.

A few years ago I set up on a half bottle neck that was full of bucks sign. I could tell bucks were going through it by the number of rubs. I sat the stand and didn't see one buck go through. I did not hunt it again but kept an eye on the spot. It dried up like water in the desert. Was it my presence that caused it to dry up? Did the bucks have my number? I don't think so the bucks merely were going from point A to point B somewhere else. I checked this spot every year after and nothing. Checked it this year and nothing. A lot of buck sign is random and not all buck sign is worth hunting.

Another thing to remember a rub has a lot of buck scent around it. A buck doesn't have to have a visual sighting to find it. In fact I'm positive they smell rubs long before they see rubs. So if a buck can know a rub is there before he sees it why would he remember it was there before he smelled it?

This is what has me confused. Why would a buck put a rub for a visual aid when he could smell if the hunter was there from way safer out? What I'm asking, is if the buck busts you with his nose why would he put a rub by the tree for a visual aid? I have never seen this happen so I can't understand it. 90% of the times I'm busted its by a buck from farther out that 50 yards and it his nose that sees me not his eyes. So I find it fascinating the buck would come back and put a rub by the tree to further tell him a hunter was there? I also am sure a lot of times we are busted by a buck we don't even know it. This is an interesting topic for sure.

Im thinking there busting us in this situation after dark, after we leave... I am not real convinced that in this case its a visual aid... But, I do think some rubs are used for visual as well as scent... Take the guys who create rubs. Remember the post where member "mike" i think it was, put in wooden fence poles and stained them at top and bottom and deer would naturally rub the lighter colored section thinking it was a rub? That proves to me that there is some use visually.

[Darion]

Agreed interesting discussion, with many tangents, many things we believe, but really don't know or understand.

Couple of thoughts for discussion: We have all said, if you beat a bucks nose, you beat the buck. But does a buck use his sense of smell for a warning of danger? Sure, but also for communication to other deer. If we look at a whitetails glands, and think about communication between deer using their sense of smell.



As we look at a buck rub, think about the 3 glands in the facial area, nasal, orbital, forehead. If you watch closely when a buck makes a rub, he doesn't just rub his antlers, also his forehead and the sides of his face, using his glands to mark the rub. He will also, smell the rub several times through the process, believe this is the way he marks his individual scent, his calling card if you will, to other deer in the area.
Maybe this is his way to mark his territory, dominance, presence, communicating to other deer, we can only speculate. Maybe this is why when they detect our human presence, the will make a rub near the stand site. Warning to a intruder? Showing dominance? Danger? Curiosity? Or some other reason? Certainly is a reason for this behavior, nothing is random.

Agree with many of the points made about rubs, different rubs communicate different things about a buck habits and travel patterns.

Point that was made about dogs. Years ago had a bird dog (German Shorthair), he would smell and lick buck rubs, pee in scrapes, and when he found a deer bed, would role around in the bed. Don't know if he understood the deer communication, or if he thought he was a deer. But he was the best scouting tool I ever had.

I just remembered something this morning and I think it could it could play a part in this topic, maybe.. Years ago I dated a girl who was deathly afraid of heights, I lived on a farm and would love to climb the grain bins and watch the sun come up. One day I was able to convince her to go to the top with me and after we made it up I gave her a kiss... I distinctly remember that her saliva/mouth tasted like copper. It never did before or after and I believe that her body in a state of fear produced some chemical and it was coursing thru her body to help in some way. I even said something to her then, she was really scared.
Perhaps there is a correlation here as well. If a buck makes a rub and scents it up he wouldnt need to be close to it to have a memory jog if you will, all he would need is the wind. A freshly rubbed tree produces an aroma I can detect so much more for our worthy adversary. If a buck sensed human presence and his bodily fluids did something weird like my old girlfriend did would that not be transferred to said tree/rub? Also I have been talking about fear or warning rubs, what is going thru their bodies close to or during the rut? We have all smelled a bucks lair from a good ways off..
Just thinking.

[Stanley]

hmmmmm....

a buck not being able to reason... a buck having to have an eidetic memory to have a rub represent an area of danger...
the point appears to have been missed by a wide margin, with strong tangents in multiple directions...

oh boy. Bucks don't have to have eidetic memories to give a wide berth to the tree that had a hunter in it that gave the buck a scare, despite the thousands they walk past. The rub made in relation to human activity and scent, just like the tree a hunter was busted in, are part of landscape that triggers the memory of the buck, so to speak. The rub standing out in a visual landscape, the scent of the hunter, the smell of the area in question... on and on... are but miniscule parts that trigger memory in deer and other large mammals.

Good point Scott... I know they remember where they make scrapes and come back to check them... I just think that if they run into danger in a spot that they remember that spot regardless of the rub, and that the rub is more a message for us, or maybe a territory marker reaction to us being in there area.

Memory wouldn't be the only way of a buck finding a scrape. A scrape is a community urinal and stinks to high heaven. I can smell scrapes as I walk through the timber in the dark. I am sure a buck can smell them from way farther off. I have watched bucks cruising and catch wind of a scrape and work its way over to the scrape to add its own scent into the mix. I have seen multiple bucks work a scrape (same day) so I'm not sure if they know exactly who made the scrape. They do know it smells and they like to add to that smell.

Are you implying that you think they can't remember making a scrape? Then how would they remember where there bed is? or a water hole? I have watched bucks day after day come out of the same bed and walk strait to a scrape before moving on...

If a buck lays in a bed for hours on end there will be a lot of buck scent hair/urine/pellets in the area. I am sure they can smell water way before they see it. I think there must be some unknown factors that we can't relate to also. How does a homing pigeon find its way back? I am amazed at some of the things wildlife can do that I have no answer for, other than what I think. It could very well be that a buck leaves a rub to mark where a hunter has been. I never try and think I know until I can prove it to myself. How does a deer know its an hour before dark? This is when they move the most even on overcast days. How does a buck know its 1 hour before daylight and they head back to bed before the sun comes up? How can Buck be 10 yards away look up at you in the tree and not see what you are? This happens all the time. Now I am finding it hard to believe a buck would place a rub under the tree to facilitate locating the spot where the hunter was? I just don't think they have the brain power to do this. I might be wrong. This is some very heavy stuff for sure.

[Stanley]

In any deer density rubs appear where the buck is starting from (bed) and going to food/water source. The buck isn't going out of his way to make rubs. The rubs are made where the buck is on its feet. When the food/water source changes the rub placement changes. That is why we see rubs all over the place not just concentrated in one area. When the rut kicks in the rubs really start to show up because the bucks are cruising all over looking for the does. If the food source remains the same for extended periods of time you will see more rubs show up from bed to that food source. We must also take into consideration the bed changes and so will the rub placement. This also contributes to random rub sightings.

If I am set up on an ambush spot between bed and food, rubs will be made and very well could be by the stand site. If I am set up in the wrong spot and the buck doesn't pass by the stand site he isn't going to go over where I am at and make a rub to mark the spot. If you are having rubs made by your stand site you are doing something right. You are in the correct path the buck uses to get from point A to point B. I can see why it would appear the buck has you patterned but in reality you are setting up in the right place. This holds especially true pre rut. Interesting discussion.

I would agree that all bucks make rubs... However, I think they make less rubs in low densities with low competition... For example, where I am at if you go back to about the year 2000 we had high density on the public and a high number of mature bucks. Almost all the beds were rub marked, certainly all primary bedding areas were... Now that our population is low, I have several primary bedding areas that have no rubs at all despite seeing mature bucks bed there several times a year.
And getting back to your point about bucks could do a random rub anywhere along there trail regardless of whether or not there was ever one there before... Agreed, but, its gets a little suspicious when a spot has never had a rub till the day after you hunt there the 1st time, and then your next set up on that buck never has a rub there till the day after you sit there for the 1st time etc... It gets a little to coincidental. Then combine that with that the rubs are not on the deer trail, there at the base of your tree...

100 % agree, less deer = less sign.

A few years ago I set up on a half bottle neck that was full of bucks sign. I could tell bucks were going through it by the number of rubs. I sat the stand and didn't see one buck go through. I did not hunt it again but kept an eye on the spot. It dried up like water in the desert. Was it my presence that caused it to dry up? Did the bucks have my number? I don't think so the bucks merely were going from point A to point B somewhere else. I checked this spot every year after and nothing. Checked it this year and nothing. A lot of buck sign is random and not all buck sign is worth hunting.

Another thing to remember a rub has a lot of buck scent around it. A buck doesn't have to have a visual sighting to find it. In fact I'm positive they smell rubs long before they see rubs. So if a buck can know a rub is there before he sees it why would he remember it was there before he smelled it?

This is what has me confused. Why would a buck put a rub for a visual aid when he could smell if the hunter was there from way safer out? What I'm asking, is if the buck busts you with his nose why would he put a rub by the tree for a visual aid? I have never seen this happen so I can't understand it. 90% of the times I'm busted its by a buck from farther out that 50 yards and it his nose that sees me not his eyes. So I find it fascinating the buck would come back and put a rub by the tree to further tell him a hunter was there? I also am sure a lot of times we are busted by a buck we don't even know it. This is an interesting topic for sure.

Im thinking there busting us in this situation after dark, after we leave... I am not real convinced that in this case its a visual aid... But, I do think some rubs are used for visual as well as scent... Take the guys who create rubs. Remember the post where member "mike" i think it was, put in wooden fence poles and stained them at top and bottom and deer would naturally rub the lighter colored section thinking it was a rub? That proves to me that there is some use visually.

Great food for thought.

[Stanley]

Agreed interesting discussion, with many tangents, many things we believe, but really don't know or understand.

Couple of thoughts for discussion: We have all said, if you beat a bucks nose, you beat the buck. But does a buck use his sense of smell for a warning of danger? Sure, but also for communication to other deer. If we look at a whitetails glands, and think about communication between deer using their sense of smell.



As we look at a buck rub, think about the 3 glands in the facial area, nasal, orbital, forehead. If you watch closely when a buck makes a rub, he doesn't just rub his antlers, also his forehead and the sides of his face, using his glands to mark the rub. He will also, smell the rub several times through the process, believe this is the way he marks his individual scent, his calling card if you will, to other deer in the area.
Maybe this is his way to mark his territory, dominance, presence, communicating to other deer, we can only speculate. Maybe this is why when they detect our human presence, the will make a rub near the stand site. Warning to a intruder? Showing dominance? Danger? Curiosity? Or some other reason? Certainly is a reason for this behavior, nothing is random.

Agree with many of the points made about rubs, different rubs communicate different things about a buck habits and travel patterns.

Point that was made about dogs. Years ago had a bird dog (German Shorthair), he would smell and lick buck rubs, pee in scrapes, and when he found a deer bed, would role around in the bed. Don't know if he understood the deer communication, or if he thought he was a deer. But he was the best scouting tool I ever had.

I just remembered something this morning and I think it could it could play a part in this topic, maybe.. Years ago I dated a girl who was deathly afraid of heights, I lived on a farm and would love to climb the grain bins and watch the sun come up. One day I was able to convince her to go to the top with me and after we made it up I gave her a kiss... I distinctly remember that her saliva/mouth tasted like copper. It never did before or after and I believe that her body in a state of fear produced some chemical and it was coursing thru her body to help in some way. I even said something to her then, she was really scared.
Perhaps there is a correlation here as well. If a buck makes a rub and scents it up he wouldnt need to be close to it to have a memory jog if you will, all he would need is the wind. A freshly rubbed tree produces an aroma I can detect so much more for our worthy adversary. If a buck sensed human presence and his bodily fluids did something weird like my old girlfriend did would that not be transferred to said tree/rub? Also I have been talking about fear or warning rubs, what is going thru their bodies close to or during the rut? We have all smelled a bucks lair from a good ways off..
Just thinking.

Some more great food for thought.

Most of the girls I hung with tasted like beer.

[dan]

More food for thought... As far as rub marked bedding goes, rub hiegt can tell you if big bucks are using that bedding. However, your going to notice that some areas have only low rubs, some mostly high rubs, some both, and some a progression of rub heights.
This can tell you if a spot is not good enough for the local mature bucks to bed, it can tell you if a buck has grown up there ( one rub tree that every year the rub is higher. And can tell you if you have a mixture of bucks bedding there.

[headgear]

I see that a lot Dan, and its very helpful to understanding a bedding area. One spot I haven't figured out yet but I have been there over the past 3 springs has rubs getting taller each year. The buck also rubs a lot less in that area as he aged. First year I found it there were dozens of rubs, the next year maybe 10-12 and last spring just a few. Or I sometimes find the same tree rubbed multiple years and you see the newest rub higher up on the tree and the old rub just below it. I have one island that is torn up with rubs of all sizes, its likely used by several different bucks.