Thermal experiment by accident.

[headgear]

Luckily I had the boots on and both the buck and the doe weren't alarmed. Luckily it wasn't you in the tree or both would have busted you, before you killed the buck.

But that is just it Stan, if we both aren't practicing scent control and we are both wearing rubber boots on every hunt so how do I get busted consistently by young deer and you have mature bucks cross or walk down your entrance trail? I have had some deer ignore my entrance trail but the great majority react in some way so I kind of think Dan's explanation may be the best.

[Stanley]

Ive had plenty of mature bucks cross my scent trail when wearing my work boots ( I work in a machine shop full of oil, coolant, etc. ) and not react at all. I have also worn rubber boots and walked on ground with little vegetation and had them come unglued when they hit my scent trail... I do agree your leaving less scent by tucking and wearing rubber boots, but I do not think your leaving so little scent that it is not smelled by the deer that cross your path. And, I also believe they can tell if its fresh scent or old scent... I think where they encounter that scent, and the learned history of encounters that particular deer has had in relation to ground scent determine how that deer reacts... I also think they can smell and learn the scent of an individual hunter, much like a dog ( which have much lessor nose ability ) can single out and find one person despite scent from many humans in the same area.

When I set up my trail cameras I always have a period of 7-10 days that bucks don't come around. Why? because there is a concentration of my scent where I set up the camera. After the scent diminishes I start getting bucks on camera. I can't control this. You are saying my boots which I leave out side in the weather just like my cameras the scent is not diminishing? How is my scent getting on the bottoms of my boots? Where is this scent coming from that would alert the buck. My cameras don't retain enough scent to alert deer why do my boots? If there is no human scent on the bottom of my boots there is one smell that I am leaving "rubber".

I know of all kinds of guys that wear rubber boots and get busted by deer just like you. I don't know of very many that leave their boots outside 24/7 in the weather. Earlier this year I walked by a scrape not the ideal situation. I set up and hunted. A 130 inch buck worked the scrape with its nose directly over where I walked. No reaction at all. I was even amazed at this one.
I'm pretty sure if you would have walked by that scrape with your greasy work boots that buck would have reacted.

That said I have had bucks catch my ground scent on wet humid days. I also have had bucks catch my ground scent after walking through wet grass, and after going through a creek. I don't know why but wet conditions are the worst. It is always a lot easier to say it doesn't work than to actually try it and prove it doesn't work.

[Stanley]

Uh, with Dan on this one.

Rubber boots are not helping or hurting your scent control.

A deer's sense of smell is another way they "see" ..... I assume like your boats sonar. You're fooling yourself with this one Stan.

Spend a lot of time with hunting dogs, amazing how their nose works. As Dan stated, a deer's ability to distinguish scent is better......and a black bear's sense of smell is even keener.

This statement I take as a personal insult. It would indicate I am lying about my shared experiences and they didn't happen.

[Stanley]

As far as your thermal experience, its cool to see it thru pic's... With milkweed I have been able to predict exactly where deer will catch my scent, sometimes its not right where we would expected. Air currents much like water in a stream will flow around obstacles and the speed of the flow will cause more or less reaction. Often the wind might be hitting me from one direction, but as it leaves my stand area it turns to go thru an opening and thats where the deer scents me, not straight down wind from the stand. Something powder or widicators would never pick up. Also, thermals or air current rising will go right over a deer, or drop hard right to a deer making it appear that your scent control either worked, or did not.

Yeah, getting back on track, when the milkweed seed goes down you know where your scent is going. In flat ground I don't normally experience what happened in my original post. The horizontal wind currents normally supersede the vertical wind currents. That is why I thought it was worth sharing.

[Autumn Ninja]

This is why I love deer hunting so much. The interpretation of what a deer dose and why it dose it.

From the deep south to the far north, midwest to the north east the whitetail has adapted. Each on a large scale but also on micro scale to suite each deers individual environment and personality.

Like the whitetail deer, all the really great hunters ive met have adapted as well. He knows that what "RIGHT" here may not be "RIGHT" there and visa versa. For the most part, a hunter is a product of his environment. From interpretation to application...

I hunt a spot that's about 3 miles deep in some rough country, these deer get very little pressure. But you better a be on your a game because these deer do not tolerate intrusion. I also hunt an area around a golf course, these deer pay no attention to human scent.

[ Post made via Android ]

[Stanley]

This is why I love deer hunting so much. The interpretation of what a deer dose and why it dose it.

From the deep south to the far north, midwest to the north east the whitetail has adapted. Each on a large scale but also on micro scale to suite each deers individual environment and personality.

Like the whitetail deer, all the really great hunters ive met have adapted as well. He knows that what "RIGHT" here may not be "RIGHT" there and visa versa. For the most part, a hunter is a product of his environment. From interpretation to application...

I hunt a spot that's about 3 miles deep in some rough country, these deer get very little pressure. But you better a be on your a game because these deer do not tolerate intrusion. I also hunt an area around a golf course, these deer pay no attention to human scent.

[ Post made via Android ]

Great post Autumn Ninja. Puts things into a better prospective. I am sure those that say I'm full of it, have not had great experiences with ground scent where they hunt. That is why they cant relate. I in turn should not expect the boots to work in their environment. You couldn't have said it better:

Like the whitetail deer, all the really great hunters ive met have adapted as well. He knows that what "RIGHT" here may not be "RIGHT" there and visa versa. For the most part, a hunter is a product of his environment. From interpretation to application...

Sometimes we try and push what we think we know and we really don't know ourselves we just think we know. Guilty as charged.

[Stanley]

Luckily I had the boots on and both the buck and the doe weren't alarmed. Luckily it wasn't you in the tree or both would have busted you, before you killed the buck.

But that is just it Stan, if we both aren't practicing scent control and we are both wearing rubber boots on every hunt so how do I get busted consistently by young deer and you have mature bucks cross or walk down your entrance trail? I have had some deer ignore my entrance trail but the great majority react in some way so I kind of think Dan's explanation may be the best.

I think Autumn Ninja's better yet explains.

[cbay]

I worked harder at scent control this year than ever before. It got to the point i was backtracking myself and checking every little thing i touched so much it was really testing my patience. I was getting by with my travel paths at the property, but my presence was still being detected by mature deer. Young deer would maybe stomp a hoof and then go about their business.
I figure it's not that they won't smell me but maybe a level of scent that leads them to believe i was there at an earlier time and now gone.
At the house where it is public i was able to beat the nose of a 2.5 yo buck for a good while. When i say beat i don't mean he didn't smell odors that represented me, but that it didn't cause him to leave. It was very cool to have that happen and was one of the very few times that i happened to have a camera over me and the deer and got pics of both of us for the span of almost an hour.
Three days later it didn't work so well; and wouldn't you know it was the stud 5.5+ buck i was after. I'm sure he would have caught my scent trail, but he caught my scent presence from the thermals and acted like he ran into a fence!
At times i almost wish i wouldn't have encounters that show my scent control measures work to a degree because it is a lot of effort. And i firmly believe that any mature deer is going to wind my presence no matter what i do, but still think the effort helps my scent trails quite a bit.

[Stanley]

I worked harder at scent control this year than ever before. It got to the point i was backtracking myself and checking every little thing i touched so much it was really testing my patience. I was getting by with my travel paths at the property, but my presence was still being detected by mature deer. Young deer would maybe stomp a hoof and then go about their business.
I figure it's not that they won't smell me but maybe a level of scent that leads them to believe i was there at an earlier time and now gone.
At the house where it is public i was able to beat the nose of a 2.5 yo buck for a good while. When i say beat i don't mean he didn't smell odors that represented me, but that it didn't cause him to leave. It was very cool to have that happen and was one of the very few times that i happened to have a camera over me and the deer and got pics of both of us for the span of almost an hour.
Three days later it didn't work so well; and wouldn't you know it was the stud 5.5+ buck i was after. I'm sure he would have caught my scent trail, but he caught my scent presence from the thermals and acted like he ran into a fence!
At times i almost wish i wouldn't have encounters that show my scent control measures work to a degree because it is a lot of effort. And i firmly believe that any mature deer is going to wind my presence no matter what i do, but still think the effort helps my scent trails quite a bit.

I have never been able to escape a bucks nose in the stand. when they get down wind it's lights out. There is just too much scent mass from a human body. I have tried everything in the book. Scent mass is huge. Example; a buck can't detect a flake of human scent from 100 yards away. But a whole human every time. I also think the new polar fleece clothing holds way more scent mass than just a plain old cotton twill.

[headgear]

I think Autumn Ninja's better yet explains.

No doubt its a pretty solid explanation but he is also talking about two extremes, there is a whole lot of middle ground in between. I never said the deer were not reacting the way you said they were, just that I wasn't sure your boots had had a major roll in their reaction. The boots certain do a good job to contain scent from the knee down, you still have scent molecules pouring out of your body. Think of it as a gas that goes right through your clothes. I remember talking about someone getting busted by their entrance trail, however the kicker was the deer busted him 10 or so yards away from the trail he took to stand, the hunters scent molecules had drifted over the 10 yards from his entrance trail. We leave these trails everywhere we go.

I do feel your explanations of weather conditions and how they affect ground scent and scent in general are spot on and they could play a much bigger roll than boots do. I also agree that standing in one location for more time leaves much more scent. Not that the boots don't help contain some major scent from inside your pant legs but there is no way they are stopping everything. Touching a branch is another example, deer certainly react much stronger to that but why? I think when we touch something we leave behind skin or other cells that have human scent or something else that freaks them out. Those skin cells are pumping out scent molecules which I think is why the deer react much stronger to something we touched vs just passing by. Now if you compare that to a giant walking scent bomb of a human strolling through the wood and you kind see we are leaving a lot of scent behind boots or no boots. I think the deer smell what is there every time unless you have some weather conditions in your favor, but some react much stronge to the scent than others.

[headgear]

I worked harder at scent control this year than ever before. It got to the point i was backtracking myself and checking every little thing i touched so much it was really testing my patience. I was getting by with my travel paths at the property, but my presence was still being detected by mature deer. Young deer would maybe stomp a hoof and then go about their business.
I figure it's not that they won't smell me but maybe a level of scent that leads them to believe i was there at an earlier time and now gone.
At the house where it is public i was able to beat the nose of a 2.5 yo buck for a good while. When i say beat i don't mean he didn't smell odors that represented me, but that it didn't cause him to leave. It was very cool to have that happen and was one of the very few times that i happened to have a camera over me and the deer and got pics of both of us for the span of almost an hour.
Three days later it didn't work so well; and wouldn't you know it was the stud 5.5+ buck i was after. I'm sure he would have caught my scent trail, but he caught my scent presence from the thermals and acted like he ran into a fence!
At times i almost wish i wouldn't have encounters that show my scent control measures work to a degree because it is a lot of effort. And i firmly believe that any mature deer is going to wind my presence no matter what i do, but still think the effort helps my scent trails quite a bit.

I go no scent control and see the same thing, usually much stronger reactions from older deer. They are just smarter and more experienced. Still get plenty of deer that wind me and do nothing but they are generally younger deer. Use to go scent control hardcore but it got to the point where it wasn't worth the effort and really not helping me get on more mature bucks. Was also busted a dozen or so times and it was easy enough to see it wasn't working for me.

[Stanley]

I think Autumn Ninja's better yet explains.

No doubt its a pretty solid explanation but he is also talking about two extremes, there is a whole lot of middle ground in between. I never said the deer were not reacting the way you said they were, just that I wasn't sure your boots had had a major roll in their reaction. The boots certain do a good job to contain scent from the knee down, you still have scent molecules pouring out of your body. Think of it as a gas that goes right through your clothes. I remember talking about someone getting busted by their entrance trail, however the kicker was the deer busted him 10 or so yards away from the trail he took to stand, the hunters scent molecules had drifted over the 10 yards from his entrance trail. We leave these trails everywhere we go.

I do feel your explanations of weather conditions and how they affect ground scent and scent in general are spot on and they could play a much bigger roll than boots do. I also agree that standing in one location for more time leaves much more scent. Not that the boots don't help contain some major scent from inside your pant legs but there is no way they are stopping everything. Touching a branch is another example, deer certainly react much stronger to that but why? I think when we touch something we leave behind skin or other cells that have human scent or something else that freaks them out. Those skin cells are pumping out scent molecules which I think is why the deer react much stronger to something we touched vs just passing by. Now if you compare that to a giant walking scent bomb of a human strolling through the wood and you kind see we are leaving a lot of scent behind boots or no boots. I think the deer smell what is there every time unless you have some weather conditions in your favor, but some react much stronge to the scent than others.

I have seen beagles trailing a rabbit in the snow and be 4-5 feet down wind of the rabbit tracks. They are still smelling the tracks scent on the ground they are not smelling molecules that drifted on the ground. Those molecules scent would not be under the bucks nose but further down wind. Bucks can smell very well but even a buck can't smell up wind. On a windy day any human scent the body would drop would be down wind and scattered, filtered, and blown apart. If your scent falls onto the ground 10 feet away it is still not just laying there but getting broken up as the leaves, ground clutter are wind washed.

I know you must have had deer pass your stand down wind but under your scent stream. And they don't smell your ground scent either. There is not enough scent mass for them to smell it. That is not magic or pixie dust. This is why I like to be 15 ft into the air.

When you touch something with your bare hand you leave an oil film that has a lot of scent. When I trim I don't touch anything especially if I'm hunting that set that day. Deer can smell the steel but it must not be alarming and not as strong as human oils.

I guess the best way to say it my technique works for me and it sounds like the technique doesn't work for you. Not uncommon at all. You put up a terrific argument but that doesn't change the fact it works for me. Great discussion.

[Stanley]

I worked harder at scent control this year than ever before. It got to the point i was backtracking myself and checking every little thing i touched so much it was really testing my patience. I was getting by with my travel paths at the property, but my presence was still being detected by mature deer. Young deer would maybe stomp a hoof and then go about their business.
I figure it's not that they won't smell me but maybe a level of scent that leads them to believe i was there at an earlier time and now gone.
At the house where it is public i was able to beat the nose of a 2.5 yo buck for a good while. When i say beat i don't mean he didn't smell odors that represented me, but that it didn't cause him to leave. It was very cool to have that happen and was one of the very few times that i happened to have a camera over me and the deer and got pics of both of us for the span of almost an hour.
Three days later it didn't work so well; and wouldn't you know it was the stud 5.5+ buck i was after. I'm sure he would have caught my scent trail, but he caught my scent presence from the thermals and acted like he ran into a fence!
At times i almost wish i wouldn't have encounters that show my scent control measures work to a degree because it is a lot of effort. And i firmly believe that any mature deer is going to wind my presence no matter what i do, but still think the effort helps my scent trails quite a bit.

I go no scent control and see the same thing, usually much stronger reactions from older deer. They are just smarter and more experienced. Still get plenty of deer that wind me and do nothing but they are generally younger deer. Use to go scent control hardcore but it got to the point where it wasn't worth the effort and really not helping me get on more mature bucks. Was also busted a dozen or so times and it was easy enough to see it wasn't working for me.

You can try all you want you just can't make your body disappear. You can however make small amounts of dead scent disappear. Wind, water, ozone can do that.

[Country]

I think it helps to put it into perspective when you think about how a buck pursues a doe during the rut. By the way he follows that doe with his nose to the ground instead of following her with his eyes can only mean one of three things. He's either not very smart, really likes the smell, or he trusts his nose more than his eyes. I think the third option is most probable, then the second option.

[Dor]

Wash clothes when soiled...sometimes this goes years without washing.

Pants over boots every time.

Get on big deer every single year.

Major stretch to kid yourself that you are doing much good with "scent control".

It is very basic. Exit/entry control and wind direction.


As to different deer populations tolerating scent more than others. Definitely true. In urban areas and in KS I can get away with murder. In KS I attribute that to the ground being so very dry. IN WI&MN big woods you better plan a good route because biggy won't be tolerating anything.

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