Do you think buck body size is a factor in antler size?

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Stanley
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Do you think buck body size is a factor in antler size?

Unread postby Stanley » Fri Nov 29, 2013 4:51 am

I do a lot of thinking when I'm hunting, or not hunting for that matter. It seams to me a big bodied buck has more potential to grow a huge rack than a smaller buck. The deer in the states that have smaller bodied bucks seam to have smaller racks? Canada is known for huge bodied bucks and Canada produces bucks with large racks for sure. 8 of the top 20 typical whitetail bucks are from Canada. I seriously doubt this is a coincidence?


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Re: Do you think buck body size is a factor in antler size?

Unread postby Ghost Hunter » Fri Nov 29, 2013 5:03 am

My thoughts on it is a deer will not produce a good rack until it's body finishes growing. Size of the deer an the size of the rack I really do not see it as a factor. The genetics, food sources over all health of the deer helps to determine its ability to produce antlers. If deer can survive in Canada where the weather is harsh they are in good health. There are a lot of deer that score good that are lower in the weight class of whitetail deer.
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Re: Do you think buck body size is a factor in antler size?

Unread postby Jeff G » Fri Nov 29, 2013 5:24 am

We took 2 bucks off our property this year. Mine was a 7 pt. 2.5 year old. Really big bodied. The other buck we took was a huge 8. He was 2.5 years old. Tiny body. He weighed 170 not gutted. Two bucks same year class. Way different racks and bodies. I think it was genetics, and diet.

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Re: Do you think buck body size is a factor in antler size?

Unread postby Stanley » Fri Nov 29, 2013 5:55 am

:think:
You can fool some of the bucks, all of the time, and fool all of the bucks, some of the time, however you certainly can't fool all of the bucks, all of the time.
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Re: Do you think buck body size is a factor in antler size?

Unread postby Zap » Fri Nov 29, 2013 6:14 am

I think that you will finds both big bodied deer with small headgear and vica versa......I do not really even see any correlation with age, other than the obvious.
Older bucks will have more mass, but not necessarily the biggest headgear.

Big bodied bucks do make the fast judge of headgear hard.
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Re: Do you think buck body size is a factor in antler size?

Unread postby backstraps » Fri Nov 29, 2013 7:09 am

Here is a great read. Long but very well written. Is was conducted by the Mississippi State University. I had this tagged from another website and thought I would paste here and share....sorry for such a long read






Genetics and Antlers of Whitetailed Deer
The role of genetics in antler development is one of the most misunderstood areas of deer management. Many of the public think that genetics and inbreeding are the reasons that big bucks of yesteryear are no longer common place. We do know that genetics is an extremely important component of the deer management formula. However, genetics is just one of the factors that governs antler development. Age, nutrition, disease, and injury are often more important contributors to a buck's antlers than is genetics.
To understand the role that genetics plays in antler development it is first necessary to understand the contributions other factors make to a buck's antlers. Most importantly, the animal has to have adequate nutrition. Without adequate nutrition a buck with the genetic background to become the world record white-tailed buck might be less than average. An example of the importance of nutrition was demonstrated by a nine year-old buck that was acquired for breeding in the Mississippi State deer research facility. When acquired the buck had been in a private deer facility in Missouri and had been fed a mostly corn diet the previous year. It should be noted that corn is a very poor quality food for deer except during periods of high-energy drain during cold periods of the year. It is high in carbohydrates but low in protein (about 8 percent). On the corn diet, the animal grew an 8 point rack, had a 17 inch inside spread, 18 inch long main beams, and a gross Boone and Crockett score of about 115. After being in the Mississippi State pens for one year on a normal 16% protein ration, the animal's antlers increased to 21 points, a 27.5 inch inside spread, 28 inch main beams, and a gross Boone and Crockett score of 210.

Age can also effect a buck's antlers dramatically. Whitetailed deer do not achieve maturity until they are 5 to 8 years of age. Studies at Mississippi State have demonstrated the average buck achieves only about 10 percent of his potential antler development by age 1.5 years (when he completes his first set of antlers as an 18-month-old buck). We also have been able to demonstrate that there is little relationship between the first year antlers and the antler development a buck will have when he reaches the mature age classes of 5 years or older. This means a spike-antlered buck has a good chance of becoming a trophy-quality adult buck. By the time a buck has completed his second set of antlers he still has achieved only 25-35 percent of his potential antler development. At 3 years of age (few bucks live longer than this in Mississippi because of hunting pressure), a buck still only has achieved about 50 percent of his potential antler quality. It is not until 5 years of age that most bucks approach their full antler potential, and often, antlers don't reach their maximum size until 7 or 8 years of age (for captive animals raised under ideal conditions). Probably less than 1 out of 5,000 bucks would survive to the 6-year-old age class with the hunting pressure now across most of Mississippi. It is no wonder we don't see the quality of bucks that existed "back in the good old days," when hunting pressure was very low compared to today.

Another feature that may develop with age is an often-dramatic change in the conformation of a buck's antlers. Stories abound in sporting magazines about how hunters have pursued the same buck from a young age until they developed into full maturity. It is probably the exception, however, rather than the rule that a hunter could tell he was hunting the same buck from one year to the next. In watching our captive deer develop, a high percentage will experience significant antler conformation changes by the time they reach the older age classes and bear little if any resemblance to what their antlers looked like as 1, 2, or 3 year-olds. It is also the older age class bucks that begin to develop atypical points. A buck that has a perfectly symmetrical 8 point, as a three year-old, can conceivably have 16 or more points by age 6 years. However, some bucks develop their antler conformation at a relatively young age, and it certainly is not unusual for an 8 point yearling buck to remain an 8 point when mature.

Two other factors that effect a buck's antler conformation are injury and disease. Injury to a buck's antler while they are still in the velvet will often result in asymmetrical antlers with odd points, double main beams, or other abnormal characteristics. Generally, antler injuries of this type do not result in antler abnormalities the second and following years unless they occur near the base of the growing antler or to the skull. If the injury is near the base of the antler, the injury can result in abnormal development in subsequent years as well as the present year. Injury to other parts of the skeleton can also result in abnormal antler growth during subsequent years. It is well documented that skeletal injury to a hind leg will result in the opposite antler being malformed in the next and in subsequent antler growth periods. Injury to a front leg often results in the antler on the same side of the body being malformed.

Disease also can cause antler growth to be abnormal. The bluetongue and hemorrhagic diseases often occur during late summer when antlers are growing and cause antler growth to cease at that time. Bucks to which this occurs often have blackened, pithy antler tips for that year. Disease can also permanently restrict potential antler development. Nutritional and hemorrhagic can damage the digestive tract and prevent an animal from ever obtaining its optimum body condition and antler development.

Given proper nutrition, age and no injuries or debilitating diseases, it is genetics that determine the final development of a buck's antlers! Two deer can be raised together to 7 years of age under optimum nutrition and conditions. One may become a Boone and Crockett deer while the other may only develop into a mediocre 6 or 8 point deer. In this case, the genetic makeup Mother Nature gave them would determine the antler development. We know there are some geographical areas that consistently produce better quality antlers than others. We also know that, with the exception of antler injury, it is genetics that determines whether a buck will have typical or atypical antlers. Our research has shown that a buck does not always transmit his antler qualities to his offspring. For example, a buck with very poor antler qualities may produce offspring with very good antler qualities and vice versa. This means there is very little that can be done to practically manage genetics in a wild deer population because we cannot determine which deer will pass the superior genes to its offspring. Additionally, even if we could select a "superior" buck, 50 percent of the offspring's genetic information is supplied by the doe, and there is no way to identify the superior doe! Research at Mississippi State has demonstrated doe's are equally, or more important, than bucks to determining the offspring's antler qualities. This does not mean that we will not manage genetics of the white-tailed deer in the future. In fact, it is probable that we will do so through genetic introduction. However, we first need to better understand through research, such as that being conducted by Mississippi State, what is prudent and wise to do when considering manipulation of genetics in wild populations.

Crossbreeding Michigan and Mississippi Deer, a Research Update

In 1989, the first Michigan deer made the long journey from Houghton Lake, Michigan, to Starkville, Mississippi. A year later a group of Mississippi deer went north to Michigan. We have answered some of our questions in the intervening years. First, we have found that deer moved from the northern U.S. to the southern U.S. may have a difficult time adapting. Of 5 male and 10 female Michigan deer originally transported to the Mississippi State University research facility, only 5 females survived to 1994. Six of the Michigan deer died as fawns from the viral hemorrhagic disease, and 4 deer died at 2-3 years of age from pneumonia. In the same period, none of the native Mississippi deer in the Mississippi State facility died from hemorrhagic disease and no similar cases of pneumonia were seen. This suggests that the Michigan deer lack immunities to some of the diseases common in the southern U.S.

Surprisingly, the southern deer seem to have adapted quite well to the northern U.S. Although three Mississippi deer died from incidental injuries soon after their transfer to Michigan, most adapted very well to the colder climate.

The most obvious visual difference between the two races of deer is skeletal size. On average, the Mississippi deer are considerably smaller in stature than their northern counterparts. Within the same age classes, Michigan deer outweighed the Mississippi deer by an average of 25 to 30 lbs. for does and 25 to 50 lbs. for bucks.

Although body size differences were dramatic, other less obvious differences may ultimately prove more significant to the biology of the white-tailed deer. Two events we are paying close attention to are fawning dates and the timing of antler events.

One surprise finding was that the Mississippi buck in Michigan was not able to breed Michigan does at their normal breeding time. The buck was not ready to breed the does in their normal first heat cycle. As a result, the does bred by the Mississippi buck had fawns one month later than normal.

Except for those Michigan does bred by the displaced Mississippi buck, fawning dates of Michigan does have averaged almost 7 weeks earlier than Mississippi does. However, both Mississippi and Michigan does had fawns an average of 3 weeks earlier when in Michigan than in Mississippi.

Timing of the rut can be related to the buck's physical performance. This is seen when we examine the timing of antler events. Hardening of the antlers and shedding of antler velvet averaged almost a month later for Mississippi deer than Michigan deer, whether in Mississippi or in Michigan. Similarly, the casting of antlers averaged a month later for Mississippi deer.

Interestingly, the seasonal event of molting from winter-to-summer and summer-to-winter coat has not been different between the two races of deer. However, we have seen later molting for both races of deer when in Michigan compared to Mississippi, with molts occurring almost three weeks earlier in Mississippi than in Michigan.

It is well documented that daylight length regulates the timing of molting and reproductive events of deer. The preliminary findings of this study suggest that the photoperiod differences between the two locations are causing these normal seasonal events of reproduction and molting to occur three weeks earlier or later, depending on the geographic location. However, what is surprising about our results is that reproduction appears not only to be governed by photo-period signals, but also by a genetic clock which causes the two races of deer to respond at different times to the same photoperiod signals. The test of this finding will result in how the crossbred offspring from the two races of deer respond.

Initial results of reproductive activity from crossbred offspring seem to be confirming a genetic linkage is occurring for reproductive timing. The crossbred does followed so far have had fawning dates between the two parent races.

Much research remains to be conducted in the area of genetics. The results should provide many exciting new discoveries about the importance of genetics and environment to the white-tailed deer.

What is the importance about this study to the average sportsperson? The answer relates to the practice of wildlife management in every state in the country. All states have had native wildlife introduced, or reintroduced, at some time, from other geographic locations. Some of these relocations have been harmful and some beneficial to the gene pools of resident wildlife species. It is foolhardy to think that genetics will be an unimportant component of wildlife management in the future. In fact, genetics have historically been important on a large scale. With this in mind, it is extremely important we find out how genetics effects traits important to survival, reproduction, growth, and other qualities of wildlife. What better place or species to start with than our favorite game species, the white-tailed deer! Hopefully, the results of this and other studies will allow us the opportunity to wisely manage attempts involving the genetic manipulation of our native game species.

Survival Rate and Cause of Death of Adult Bucks in Mississippi

Quality Deer Management (QDM) is being practiced on many hunting clubs and on public lands in Mississippi. Because with QDM young bucks are passed over by hunters and allowed to live to older age classes, it is important to know the survival rates of adult bucks when subject to hunting mortality. A study funded by Mississippi Department of Wildlife and Fisheries (MDWFP), participating hunting clubs, Anderson Tully Company, and Deer Hunting Magazine, has helped to address this question.

We implemented a study to find the answer to the question, "what happens if young bucks are let go by hunters?" From 1989-1994, a total of 320 deer were captured on 16 study areas. Radio transmitters were placed on 167 adult bucks. Mortality occurred for 92 of the transmitter collared animals with 72 (78 percent) dying from gunshot, 12 (13 percent) from unknown causes, 6 (7 percent) capture related, 1 (1 percent) from meningitis and 1 (1 percent) from pneumonia.

These preliminary results indicate that adult bucks in Mississippi have very low natural mortality rates. If protected from hunting mortality as yearlings, there is an extremely high probability that the same buck will live to an older age class. Thus, protecting these young bucks should not greatly reduce the hunter's bag. Instead, protecting young bucks improves the quality of the deer herd and the hunting experience.

What Has Happened to the Rut?

The two men in the coffee shop were in a dilemma. They had always scheduled a week's vacation the first part of January. For many years, that was the week the deer moved the most and hunting seemed at its best. The last couple of years, however, the deer hunting had not been the same. In earlier years, they could always count on the bucks to be chasing does at that time. It seemed things changed the year after they had agreed to follow a biologist's recommendations and start harvesting many does. Now they were not so sure they had done the right thing. They were seeing fewer deer and the hunting definitely did not seem as good as before. However, they had to admit the deer they did harvest were in better condition and all the does seemed to have two fawns.

The conversation was just about to change subjects when another man who belonged to their hunting club entered the restaurant. They had not seen their friend since before last hunting season. The conversation turned back to hunting, and they asked what sort of hunting season their friend had. They were surprised to hear that he thought the last season had been the best he ever had. He had always taken his vacation the week before Christmas. He could not remember when he had seen so much deer activity. He had killed a heavy-beamed 10 point on Christmas Eve morning as it chased a doe past his stand.

The situation just described is happening all over the South. The dates might range from October through January, but the rut is changing. To understand why, we need to examine what determines the rut.

The rut is the period when breeding occurs. It is determined by when the does enter estrus, or heat. In much of Mississippi and Alabama the rut can be as late as the first couple weeks of January. Recent research has indicated that the rut is controlled largely by genetics. In fact, deer can be found somewhere in North America breeding in every month of the year.

We know that the rut can be modified by changing the photoperiod, or hours of day-length, a deer is exposed to. This is because of a photo-sensitive gland known as the pineal gland found at the base of the brain. This gland is actually derived embryologically from a third eye. The pineal gland controls the reproductive centers of the brain and serves as a "biological clock." We believe that genetics sets this biological clock, but photoperiod regulates when the clock starts or stops.

A scientist named Richard Goss demonstrated the importance of photoperiod. Dr. Goss found that if deer were placed in controlled rooms and the number of dark versus light hours in the day were regulated, the reproductive period of deer could be changed. In fact, deer transported to the Southern Hemisphere (New Zealand or Australia) from the Northern Hemisphere will actually change their reproductive cycles by 6 months.

Despite the importance of photoperiod as a regulator of the rut, photoperiod changes do not explain the changing rut currently experienced by many hunting clubs. Annual changes can occur due to slight changes in the weather, but it does not account for the magnitude of change we see in some areas. In fact, although the timing of the rut has changed for some hunting clubs, others in the same areas have not changed. So what is causing this change?

Many clubs harvest an average of 70 percent of the antlered bucks annually. This pressure on adult bucks produces a heavy distortion of sex ratios, and we believe this results in too few bucks to breed the receptive does on their first estrous cycle. When a doe comes into estrous, or heat, she is receptive to a buck for a period of about 24 hours. If she is not bred in that period or does not become pregnant, she will not come into estrous again for another 22-28 day period.

We have seen a changing rut where hunter harvest has shifted from heavy buck and light doe harvest to heavy doe and moderate buck harvest. An early 1990's study at Mississippi State University found that hunting clubs that harvested at least as many does as bucks had average breeding dates at least 2 weeks earlier than those that did not have equal sex harvest. Some clubs that have been practicing equal-sex deer harvest for many years have actually shifted the rut as much as a month earlier.

Hunting clubs now engaged in QDM (showing restraint in harvest of yearling and 2-year old bucks and harvesting an adequate number of does) have seen many positive changes in their deer herd. Not only has it provided more venison for the table, but also the chance to harvest 3-year old and older bucks in numbers never before experienced. Because fawning is earlier, fawns develop earlier and experience higher survival and better growth rates.

With proper management, the end result is everyone wins. Hunters have an earlier rut to hunt. The deer herd and habitat are in better condition. It seems contrary to what many hunters were raised to believe; i.e. shooting as many does as bucks. However, we now know doe harvest is required if we want to maintain deer herds in their most productive state. Most deer herds in the South have increased to the point that they will seriously damage their habitat, health, and productivity unless adequate antlerless harvest is practiced. Hunters should be aware that adequate antlerless harvest will change the period of the rut. Thus, start now in planning an earlier vacation for the future!

The above information reproduced from MSUcares.com, the web site of the Mississippi State University Extension Service
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Re: Do you think buck body size is a factor in antler size?

Unread postby Stanley » Fri Nov 29, 2013 7:16 am

Interesting read backstraps.
You can fool some of the bucks, all of the time, and fool all of the bucks, some of the time, however you certainly can't fool all of the bucks, all of the time.
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Re: Do you think buck body size is a factor in antler size?

Unread postby James » Fri Nov 29, 2013 9:34 am

I don't see it as a factor on my farms. On one we have taken a 5yo buck that weighed 204 dressed that sported a rack that wouldn't score more than 136". Then we harvested another that was a 3yo with over 160" of bone and only weighed about 169 dressed.

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Re: Do you think buck body size is a factor in antler size?

Unread postby Edcyclopedia » Fri Nov 29, 2013 12:35 pm

Had a great conversation with my butcher when I dropped my deer off for processing.
This guy sees, touches and scores hundreds of deer per season and has been doing it for +20-years.
He is also an avid trophy hunter that does very well in the Northeast.

As we discussed my Buck I commented how short/stubby he was and he asked if it was shot in such - and - such town.
I said close, next town over...

He then commented on how different 10-miles in each direction yields different body (and rack) genetics. (both Bucks and Doe's)
We contemplated that the Doe population may have more to do with it verses the Buck.

Our conclusion was due to the fact that Momma deer will kick the Buck offspring out of the mating radius.
Leaving all the Fawn Doe's close to home and their the one's that are holding the gene pool intact.

Any thoughts?
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Re: Do you think buck body size is a factor in antler size?

Unread postby UntouchableNess » Fri Nov 29, 2013 1:40 pm

I've shot a couple deer with big antlers, but small body. This year, I shot a 5.5 yr old tank body of a buck with "small" antlers. Some think there is a correlation, there might be, I'm not totally convinced.

Backstraps post took me to the MSU website, where I found this:

http://msucares.com/news/print/fwnews/f ... 30903.html

MSU’s deer lab finds Midwest antlers largest
Steve Demarais (left) and Bronson Strickland (right) take measurements of a tranquilized deer housed at Mississippi State University’s Rusty Dawkins Memorial Deer Unit. Center from left, graduate students Erick Michel and Jake Oates record the data to help researchers correlate nutrition and genetics with white-tailed deer antler growth. (Photo by MSU Forest and Wildlife Research Center/Karen Brasher)
Steve Demarais (left) and Bronson Strickland (right) take measurements of a tranquilized deer housed at Mississippi State University’s Rusty Dawkins Memorial Deer Unit. Center from left, graduate students Erick Michel and Jake Oates record the data to help researchers correlate nutrition and genetics with white-tailed deer antler growth. (Photo by MSU Forest and Wildlife Research Center/Karen Brasher)

Dave Storment
MSU Forest and Wildlife Research Center

MISSISSIPPI STATE – Research conducted by Mississippi State University Deer Lab scientists has determined northern deer may have bigger bodies but they don’t necessarily have bigger antlers.

The discovery, made by scientists in the university’s Deer Lab, a unit of the Forest and Wildlife Research Center, shows that antler size depends more on diet than latitude.

“In white-tailed deer, large antlers are generally found on deer with large bodies. However, the largest antler measurements were found in the Midwestern states and not the far North, as commonly believed,” said Bronson Strickland, associate Extension professor and researcher in the Forest and Wildlife Research Center.

The ecological theory known as Bergmann’s rule predicts animals found in northern latitudes require larger body size to maintain body temperature in cold weather. This relationship holds true for body size of white-tailed deer, but Mississippi State deer biologists Strickland and Steve Demarais decided to see if a similar relationship existed for antler size. To find out, they used data from Florida to Maine and as far west as the Rocky Mountains.

Scientists have long hypothesized that nutrition contributes more to antler size than latitude. To test the hypothesis, the duo surveyed state agencies for the antler beam diameter of yearling bucks.

The researchers found that the statistical relationship between latitude and antler size is weak. Geographic location explains only 7 percent of the variation in antler size. The research found that variation in antler size is more closely related to soil quality and land use.

“Antler size is known to be highly correlated with body size,” said Demarais, who is also a Dale H. Arner professor of wildlife ecology in the Forest and Wildlife Research Center. “However, our research further proves that agricultural areas with rich soil provide more food for deer, leading to deer with larger bodies, independent of their latitude.”

That means good soil and agricultural crops lead to larger deer with bigger antlers.

Places with rich soil, such as the Mississippi Delta and the bread basket states, produce deer with big bodies and big antlers.

Strickland said soybean crops contribute the most to deer size. White-tailed deer eat only the seed of grain crops like corn, but they eat all parts of soybean plants, which are grown on rich soil. This gives them the nutrients required to grow larger bodies.

The research results may be good news for landowners looking to increase antler size on their property.

“Landowners can provide an ample diet through habitat management and supplemental wildlife plantings, which can have a big impact on antler and body size,” Strickland said.

This study is one of many in the MSU Deer Lab, a research program more than 40 years old. The MSU Deer Lab is one of the premier deer management research units in the nation. Learn more at http://www.msudeerlab.com.


MSU does a lot of Whitetail research, one study was debunking the "spike needs culled" approach.
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Re: Do you think buck body size is a factor in antler size?

Unread postby headgear » Fri Nov 29, 2013 1:46 pm

I think body and antler body size can factor in when it comes to age but after that the ultimate size of both will come down to the G-word ;) and nutrition.
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Re: Do you think buck body size is a factor in antler size?

Unread postby headgear » Fri Nov 29, 2013 2:05 pm

Not even sure if I should post this but this is my main argument in the other threads, all things being equal genetics is the determining factor in antler growth. Yes it can be the least important thing when talking about certain aspects of antler growth but if you want a world class deer you need world class genetics. I was a bit surprised to hear them say small racked deer can give birth to a huge racked buck, I certainly knew that was possible given the doe's genetics the the bucks recessive genes but it seems to be more common as they explain in this part of the article backstraps posted.

backstraps wrote:Given proper nutrition, age and no injuries or debilitating diseases, it is genetics that determine the final development of a buck's antlers! Two deer can be raised together to 7 years of age under optimum nutrition and conditions. One may become a Boone and Crockett deer while the other may only develop into a mediocre 6 or 8 point deer. In this case, the genetic makeup Mother Nature gave them would determine the antler development. We know there are some geographical areas that consistently produce better quality antlers than others. We also know that, with the exception of antler injury, it is genetics that determines whether a buck will have typical or atypical antlers. Our research has shown that a buck does not always transmit his antler qualities to his offspring. For example, a buck with very poor antler qualities may produce offspring with very good antler qualities and vice versa. This means there is very little that can be done to practically manage genetics in a wild deer population because we cannot determine which deer will pass the superior genes to its offspring. Additionally, even if we could select a "superior" buck, 50 percent of the offspring's genetic information is supplied by the doe, and there is no way to identify the superior doe! Research at Mississippi State has demonstrated doe's are equally, or more important, than bucks to determining the offspring's antler qualities. This does not mean that we will not manage genetics of the white-tailed deer in the future. In fact, it is probable that we will do so through genetic introduction. However, we first need to better understand through research, such as that being conducted by Mississippi State, what is prudent and wise to do when considering manipulation of genetics in wild populations.
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Re: Do you think buck body size is a factor in antler size?

Unread postby Stanley » Fri Nov 29, 2013 5:07 pm

I'm thinking the bigger pictures. Florida has small bucks body wise compared to Canada. Florida has no typical bucks in the top 20. Canada has bigger bodied bucks than Florida, Canada has 8 typical bucks in the top 20. I would have to say that would be supporting evidence that body size could possibly be a factor in bigger racked bucks. :think: Some could argue Canada has a better gene pool than Florida but that would be much less supported. The heaviest bucks that I have killed have bigger racks than the smaller bodied bucks I have killed. I do think age has something to do with body weight. I have never seen a 200 lb dressed 1.5 year old buck. Just food for thought. :think:
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Re: Do you think buck body size is a factor in antler size?

Unread postby DEERSLAYER » Fri Nov 29, 2013 7:44 pm

I posted the same article backstraps just did but a while back in reference to the massive difference that proper nutrition can make in only one year. Mississippi State University has done some good work in the past. I'm always interested in what they have to say because their studies tend to be pretty sound. Unfortunately these days a lot of "studies" have one or more uncontrolled variables that make their accuracy questionable. Aka To often they are not really "scientific" studies.

I guess I'm not really contributing to this conversation much. More just thinking out loud. :confusion-shrug:
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Re: Do you think buck body size is a factor in antler size?

Unread postby JV NC » Fri Nov 29, 2013 9:27 pm

I'm thinking the bigger pictures. Florida has small bucks body wise compared to Canada. Florida has no typical bucks in the top 20. Canada has bigger bodied bucks than Florida, Canada has 8 typical bucks in the top 20. I would have to say that would be supporting evidence that body size could possibly be a factor in bigger racked bucks. :think: Some could argue Canada has a better gene pool than Florida but that would be much less supported. The heaviest bucks that I have killed have bigger racks than the smaller bodied bucks I have killed. I do think age has something to do with body weight. I have never seen a 200 lb dressed 1.5 year old buck. Just food for thought. :think:


The article was great. The above post was equally well written.

NC just produced its first B&C buck. I mean the first................EVER.

Have I seen or killed some old bucks with large bodies and small racks? If you consider 4.5/5.5 as "older".......yeah. My two best scoring bucks weren't even in the top 5 as far as far as overall body weight.

But, Stanley's (IMO) got the right idea -- on looking at the bigger picture.
Lateral Bowhunter


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