Mature Buck Assassins

[Ridgerunner7]

I would not tell those guys from Michigan & Pennsylvania and some other regions/states, that a 3.5 year old buck isn't mature. I think geographically and public vs cushy private is a major difference when it comes to labeling "mature". JMHO

Good point Stanley. I see maybe 1-2 three year old bucks or older per season on average in Michigan and that's hunting/scouting very hard. My out of state trips are typically short and I'll see twice that amount in just a few days of hunting and they move much more in daylight. Just my opinion. I know physically a 3 year old deer isn't mature but behavior wise I find these bucks in Michigan the most challenging I've ever hunted out of 8 different states.

[keb]

I agree with the geographic location.

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[PLB]

I think a mature buck is one that doesn't laugh or snicker at inappropriate jokes and/or conversation topics. He is usually wise and tends to be a gentleman when it comes to dealing with females and other deer in general. A mature buck is responsible and has his priorities straight. Physically, a mature buck tends to strut with confidence and usually has a muscular build. He can usually stick up for himself when confronted by other bucks and may use his oftentimes larger antlers to lay the smack down. Mature bucks demand respect. Anything less and he will force his opponent running away with his tail tucked between his legs as the mature buck and his mate point their hooves and laugh. Who wouldn't be proud to have a mature buck on their wall?

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[dan]

I think people are way off on ageing too... Plenty of 3 year olds out there that score B&C or better but you hear plenty of people say they hold out for 4 y/o or better... They passing a 180 class 3 year old? and shooting a 90 inch 4 y/o ?
I see a lot of people also attach ages to bucks and I look at the buck and quietly think "no way"
Even me, I tested myself with farm raised deer and just by looking at the body I was often wrong... And really all you can go by is the body in most cases, but most people throw rack size in even if they say they don't. I think dressed weight up to 3 years old is the most accurate way to determine approximate age.

[Stanley]

I think people are way off on ageing too... Plenty of 3 year olds out there that score B&C or better but you hear plenty of people say they hold out for 4 y/o or better... They passing a 180 class 3 year old? and shooting a 90 inch 4 y/o ?
I see a lot of people also attach ages to bucks and I look at the buck and quietly think "no way"
Even me, I tested myself with farm raised deer and just by looking at the body I was often wrong... And really all you can go by is the body in most cases, but most people throw rack size in even if they say they don't. I think dressed weight up to 3 years old is the most accurate way to determine approximate age.

Great point Dan, rack size trumps age in every hunter I know personally. I also agree that a lot of 3.5 year old bucks sport big racks and lower dressed weights. That said, there are a lot of heavy (mass weight) 5.5 - 8.5 yr old bucks that won't score 170. A lot of those 170 inch bucks you hear of, are in reality good 145s. I see this a lot. In fact a lot of those 12 pointers turn into 8s & 9s when on the ground .

[bowmike]

I would not tell those guys from Michigan & Pennsylvania and some other regions/states, that a 3.5 year old buck isn't mature. I think geographically and public vs cushy private is a major difference when it comes to labeling "mature". JMHO

I am from PA and SWPA to boot. Probably some of the highest hunter densities per square mile on opening day than anywhere in the world. My old area, though good in bow season, saw 19 guys before 11 oclock and that was sitting until 9.

Bucks that are big are mature mentally far beyond their years, although biologically/ physically they are not. I'd say if you are taking 2.5 year olds on a regular basis you are doing good. If you are taking 3.5-4.5 you are doing great, and if you are taking 4.5 or better every year you are the man.

I get these 3.5 year old or better bucks on camera every year, and consistently, although I did not utilize the camera this year) get at least 1 close to P&Y buck on camera on the same public land every year, as I was when saw the 19 guys on the first day of rifle. Glad I found this site as my deer sightings has gone up, just need to utilize the spring for bed hunting. Also this year I have actually passed up a legal PA buck, so I am getting better with my progression

[JRM6868]

I think people are way off on ageing too... Plenty of 3 year olds out there that score B&C or better but you hear plenty of people say they hold out for 4 y/o or better... They passing a 180 class 3 year old? and shooting a 90 inch 4 y/o ?
I see a lot of people also attach ages to bucks and I look at the buck and quietly think "no way"
Even me, I tested myself with farm raised deer and just by looking at the body I was often wrong... And really all you can go by is the body in most cases, but most people throw rack size in even if they say they don't. I think dressed weight up to 3 years old is the most accurate way to determine approximate age.

I don't think that was a fair test in my opinion guessing farm raised deer for you. Farm raise deer will have more weight and less stress. They will have more mass because they are altering them genetically for a higher score.
Rack size on wild deer the only thing you can look at in my opinion would be the mass not score and add that to your observations on the body characteristics to come up with an age. Dressed weight works if you have a basis to go by and then that basis is localized to the different areas so people would need to know the basis for their area.
3.5-4.5 yr old deer are in my opinion the toughest to age as far as if a deer is 3.5 or 4.5 because at that age is when they start looking more mature. They don't have that thin neck and slim body they start to fill out like a teenager from a boy. 5.5+ they start to get more mature characteristics and after that unless you have some history with the deer or have it aged it's hard to say whether it's 6.5+ etc.
I agree with Stanley also some areas a mature buck is 2.5 because of the hunter density and if it's brown it's down mentality.

[magicman54494]

I'm running steady and my work is really cutting into my bow hunting time. so I'll just give a summary.
I've hunted northern Wisconsin public land since 1997
I've hunted northern Minnesota public land since 2004
I've hunted the Up Michigan public land since 2011
in this time. I killed 14 bucks averaging 4 years old.
the youngest being 2 years old the oldest being 7. these of course are guesstimates.

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[Stanley]

I'm running steady and my work is really cutting into my bow hunting time. so I'll just give a summary.
I've hunted northern Wisconsin public land since 1997
I've hunted northern Minnesota public land since 2004
I've hunted the Up Michigan public land since 2011
in this time. I killed 14 bucks averaging 4 years old.
the youngest being 2 years old the oldest being 7. these of course are guesstimates.

[ Post made via Android ]

Impressive resume. Plus you are helping get the thread back on track.

[SamPotter]

I think people are way off on ageing too... Plenty of 3 year olds out there that score B&C or better but you hear plenty of people say they hold out for 4 y/o or better... They passing a 180 class 3 year old? and shooting a 90 inch 4 y/o ?
I see a lot of people also attach ages to bucks and I look at the buck and quietly think "no way"
Even me, I tested myself with farm raised deer and just by looking at the body I was often wrong... And really all you can go by is the body in most cases, but most people throw rack size in even if they say they don't. I think dressed weight up to 3 years old is the most accurate way to determine approximate age.

I agree that people are often wrong on aging guesstimates. Heck, even biologists can't accurately age a deer by its jawbone by toothwear after all of the adult teeth are in place. I have sent teeth to Texas for cementum annuli aging on 5 bucks, 1 was 3yrs, 3 were 4yrs, and 1 was 5yrs. My dad gave me a buck boiler a couple of years ago and one thing I've noticed after doing 30-40 skulls is that the nose bones on 3yr-olds and younger fall off and you have to glue them back in and the more mature a buck is the more solid the skull is. Skeletally it seems that 4+ is mature.

Back to the original topic of the thread:
I shot my 1st buck in 2002 and including that one I've killed 6-3yr olds, 6- 4yr olds, and 1- 5yr old (8 of these are guesstimates). All in Connecticut or New York.

[Trailcamaddict]

I have gone 10 years in a row harvesting what I call a shooter buck. Some of these deer are 2.5, some are 3.5 I think 2 or 3 were 4.5. I'm not very good at aging and not into scoring. Nothing under 8 points nothing over 10. As a matter of fact I had never shot a 10 pt until 2009. Now I have 4 of them on the wall. 3 of these deer on public land. 7 bucks by bow, 3 by gun.

I'm hoping the BEAST learning curve is short, because I really want to increase my PLB success.

[Schultzy]

Brad your gun buck last yr is definetly 3... might have been 4. IMO

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Agree..

[G3s]

I am hesitant to answer this question thinking I may be jinxing myself. I have had the good fortune of shooting at least 1 3 1/2 yr old buck per year since 2005. I am not ready to pass on 3 yr old deer and hunt more mature deer yet. Trying to find a 4 yr old around these parts is similar to looking for bigfoot.

[admiral04]

I would not tell those guys from Michigan & Pennsylvania and some other regions/states, that a 3.5 year old buck isn't mature. I think geographically and public vs cushy private is a major difference when it comes to labeling "mature". JMHO

im from Pa and all i can say to that is amen'

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[Autumn Ninja]

I will start this out by saying "the bucks where I hunt" . Tooth wear is very easy and accurate at ages 1, 2 and 3+, 3 and beyond is just a guess. Antler score means very little, a 2yo could score 70 to 130, most bucks t op out in the 140's regardless of age (here). Body weight means nothing, a 3yo will dress in the 150-170 range and so do the 5+yo's.


With that said, IMO, I've killed a 2yo, a 3yo and a 4yo in the past 5 years.

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